The Complete EDU Guide

[Kylan271]

Thanks for the reply. Yes I was worried about the javelins&mount effects vs elephants,CA is lazy..heh.

As for heat effects I was confused snow bonus(terrain)is not paired to heat,ie heat/cold. CA has strange ways of doing things.

As for Spear,spear_bonus_x (BI only),is seen in Lusted's TE Gold i use,so I am confused,as this uses RTW vanilla base.So how would it work?

[Aradan]

The spear_bonus_x attribute adds x points to attack when against a mount. (works in RTW 1.5 too)

[Kylan271]

OK just to clarify as you say it is BI only at start page data.

Oh yes I forgot,sheesh,something bugging me.

1. Some infantry move faster than others or in unit descriptions listed as fast,how is this derived? I understand mount skeletons affecting movement,but humans..hmm same physically so has to be something to do with fatigue etc??? Not sure..perhaps armour rating?

2. Some units listed as vulnerable to missiles,how is this assigned????

[Aradan]

OK just to clarify as you say it is BI only at start page data.

Must fix that (after testing it myself).

1. Some infantry move faster than others or in unit descriptions listed as fast,how is this derived? I understand mount skeletons affecting movement,but humans..hmm same physically so has to be something to do with fatigue etc??? Not sure..perhaps armour rating?

Units have models, and models are assigned skeletons. Skeleton type affects "fast moving" and also the speed at which they run.

2. Some units listed as vulnerable to missiles,how is this assigned????

Hardcoded, tied to the unit armour rating.

[Kylan271]

Sorry to give headache,but how can I assign fast movement to a peltast unit,is it coded in primary or secondary weapon type and which one is default for speed? Would it be something like this:fs_semi_fast_javelinman, fs_s1_semi_fast_barbswordsman ??? Which skeleton for infantry do you know is fastest-any weapon type?? I am presuming weapon skeletons are the key.

And I think I owe you a coffee & pizza by now...

Do you have data on armour ceiling for missile vulnerability(primary armour alone or defence and shield or what??). That is when does it kick in,at what value?

[Aradan]

how can I assign fast movement to a peltast unit,is it coded in primary or secondary weapon type and which one is default for speed? Would it be something like this:fs_semi_fast_javelinman, fs_s1_semi_fast_barbswordsman ???

Increasing speed meaning assigning a faster skeleton to the unit. If it has fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman, you should make it fs_semi_fast_javelinman and fs_semi_fast_swordsman (or fs_fast_). Yopu could laso just change one of the skeletons, but that means he would run at a different speed while he having the primary weapon active than while having the secondary.

Does Sig1's animation pack include a "s_s1_semi_fast_barbswordsman" skeleton? If yes, you can use it. If not, you can't just add a "semi_fast_" to a skeleton name in DMB and make the unit faster, a skeleton with that name has to exist.

Which skeleton for infantry do you know is fastest-any weapon type?? I am presuming weapon skeletons are the key.

Fastest = dagger, I think. But it has a small "range", that makes it quite weak. The vanilla skeletons that performs better (assuming min-delay = 25+ and lethalities are all the same) are fs_spearman and its variants and fs_2handed.

Do you have data on armour ceiling for missile vulnerability(primary armour alone or defence and shield or what??). That is when does it kick in,at what value?

Used to have one, can't find it now. It doesn't really matter, you can ignore those 'tags' or rename them in text/shared.txt

[Kylan271]

OK greatly appreciate your effort. I am trying to create new units&redo some old ones(TE Gold Mod),so required data on how the units 'work'. The interesting thing about skeleton speeds and primary&secondary weapons is that you can't change the weapon only except in attack,lol. So have to consider primary weapon as main speed determinant. To create a "Ekdromos" type units as example-to chase skirmishers,you need semi_fast for primary weapon as mandatory. I never knew this before amongst other things.

I am aware about Sig1 animation pack,I was not aware of speed changes due to choices though...so that leaves a burning question why would you want a 'slow' skeleton when you can just do everything as 'semi-fast'? So is it just artistic appeal for the unit to have slower animation or does it convert into some combat usefulness,ie slow anmimation bow gives more damage than fast animation bow etc? Hmm,I am curious now.

Ok for armour..I will monitor the defence values and see if I can see a link to 'missile vulnerability' unit data,and try to protect my units where I can? I could ignore it,but I think it would have some bonus in damage to those units in game,which I do not want to risk if I can?

Again many thanks

Phillip

[Aradan]

why would you want a 'slow' skeleton when you can just do everything as 'semi-fast'? So is it just artistic appeal for the unit to have slower animation or does it convert into some combat usefulness,ie slow anmimation bow gives more damage than fast animation bow etc? Hmm,I am curious now.

People usually want their units to move slower the more armoured they are; or sometimes they wants some units to be particularly fast etc, so this is where those speed variations come in handy. Unit movement speed can make quite a difference in 'many VS many' battles, especially when the battlemap movement speed moifiers have been set low.

Ok for armour..I will monitor the defence armour values and see if I can see a link to 'missile vulnerability' unit data,and try to protect my units where I can? I could ignore it,but I think it would have some bonus in damage to those units in game,which I do not want to risk if I can?

The "vulnerable to missiles" tag is just text, it changes nothing in game. Units with it don't suddenly become useless against missiles. As I said, you can simply ignore it, it doesn't make any difference (apart from the appearence of the text).

[Kylan271]

OK thanks for clarifying.

[Kokito]

Great!!!, It has helped me a lot your GUIDENCE!, lol!, thank you Aradan!

Just a little thing now, how can I separate an unit that it's mounted and make a different one without mount?, there are several that I would like to implement this threatment !, why not, after all, If you haven't got horses...you can have the unit fighting dismonted!!!

Thankssss in advanceee!

[Aradan]

This might help.

If there is a point you don't quite understand, just ask.

[Kokito]

Many thanks Aradan!, I have tried many many manyyyy times, but I could only make it work in RTW not in BI!!!

Besides, I have seen that this unit that I´m duplicating to have it both mounted and unmounted, has two texts in export_descr_unit...this is what I mean

type marca gwynedd
dictionary marca_gwynedd
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier marca_gwynedd, 15, 0, 1.5
officer draco_standard_mounted
mount medium horse
mount_effect elephant -8, camel -4
attributes sea_faring,hide_forest,hardy
formation 1.5, 3.5, 6, 6, 4,square,wedge
stat_health 2, 1
stat_pri 22,3, javelin, 40, 6, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10, 1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown,thrown ap, ap
stat_sec 9,12, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 10, 0.708
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 11, 8, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -1, -8, 0
stat_mental 8,impetuous,untrained
stat_charge_dist 200
stat_fire_delay -35000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 3, 450, 90, 40, 60, 450
ownership vandals, slave

And then almost in the bottom

type marca gwynedd_2
dictionary marca_gwynedd
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier marca_gwynedd, 15, 0, 1.5
officer draco_standard_mounted
mount medium horse
mount_effect elephant -8, camel -4
attributes no_custom, sea_faring,hide_forest,hardy
formation 1.5, 3.5, 6, 6, 4,square,wedge
stat_health 2, 1
stat_pri 22,3, javelin, 40, 6, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10, 1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown,thrown ap, ap
stat_sec 9,12, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 10, 0.708
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 11, 8, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -1, -8, 0
stat_mental 8,impetuous,untrained
stat_charge_dist 200
stat_fire_delay -35000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 370, 70, 40, 60, 370
ownership vandals, slave

This is driving me crazy! could you give a hand?

Ah!, any ideas why I can´t retrain in big cities but is possible in lesser cities? again thank you mate

[CaesarVincens]

I'm guessing you want your second unit to be the dismounted one.

Many thanks Aradan!, I have tried many many manyyyy times, but I could only make it work in RTW not in BI!!!

Besides, I have seen that this unit that I´m duplicating to have it both mounted and unmounted, has two texts in export_descr_unit...this is what I mean

type marca gwynedd
dictionary marca_gwynedd
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier marca_gwynedd, 15, 0, 1.5
officer draco_standard_mounted
mount medium horse
mount_effect elephant -8, camel -4
attributes sea_faring,hide_forest,hardy
formation 1.5, 3.5, 6, 6, 4,square,wedge
stat_health 2, 1
stat_pri 22,3, javelin, 40, 6, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10, 1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown,thrown ap, ap
stat_sec 9,12, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 10, 0.708
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 11, 8, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -1, -8, 0
stat_mental 8,impetuous,untrained
stat_charge_dist 200
stat_fire_delay -35000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 3, 450, 90, 40, 60, 450
ownership vandals, slave

And then almost in the bottom

type marca gwynedd_2
dictionary marca_gwynedd
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier marca_gwynedd, 15, 0, 1.5
officer draco_standard_mounted
mount medium horse
mount_effect elephant -8, camel -4
attributes no_custom, sea_faring,hide_forest,hardy
formation 1.5, 3.5, 6, 6, 4,square,wedge
stat_health 2, 1
stat_pri 22,3, javelin, 40, 6, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10, 1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown,thrown ap, ap
stat_sec 9,12, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 10, 0.708
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 11, 8, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -1, -8, 0
stat_mental 8,impetuous,untrained
stat_charge_dist 200
stat_fire_delay -35000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 370, 70, 40, 60, 370
ownership vandals, slave

This is driving me crazy! could you give a hand?

Ah!, any ideas why I can´t retrain in big cities but is possible in lesser cities? again thank you mate

I don't know if it matters whether two units have the same dictionary entry. Anyway, for the second unit, you still have a mount line. You need to remove that if they are dismounted. As for retraining, that is determined in export_descr_buildings.

[Kylan271]

As for Attributes,I can't recall if mentioned here,but what is the difference in hide forest and hide improved forest??? And does Hide Anywhere mean you don't need to metion the other 'hide' options?

[CaesarVincens]

As for Attributes,I can't recall if mentioned here,but what is the difference in hide forest and hide improved forest??? And does Hide Anywhere mean you don't need to metion the other 'hide' options?

"hide_forest" means they can hide in forested areas (relatively dense trees that mostly cover the entire unit), "hide_improved_forest" means they are better at hiding in forests (trees don't have to be so dense, etc.) And "hide_anywhere" does exactly as it says on the box. A unit with that attribute hides anywhere, including areas normally covered by other attributes.

[Kylan271]

OK thanks,so for text you don't need to add hide_forest if hide_improved_forest,and do not need either if hide_anywhere listed? Refering to Forester Warbands etc.

Aradan,in view of lethality,I don't understand the numbers????

[lethality] : Percentile chance of a soldier to kill an enemy (assuming his strike has found its target). The higher the lethality, the more the kills and the less the knock-downs/knock-backs during a battle. Greatly affects the speed at which melee battles are resolved, since higher lethality means less missed hits and greater casualties in short time. It is not used in ranged combat.

stat_pri 7, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.73 Warband
stat_pri 13, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 25 ,0.87 Falxman
stat_pri 7, 1, arrow, 120, 30, missile, archery, piercing, none, 25 ,1 Warband Archer
stat_sec 3, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 25 ,1 Skirmisher knife

I do not understand the lethality values given. It reads to me that a falx is a weaker weapon than a knife at kills,and a knife is also better than a spear,and a bow has lethality???? Is this say .73 =73% chance of kill???? So 1 = 100%,the max I figure.

[Aradan]

Yes.

[Kylan271]

Oh heh,sorry Aradan I was editing whilst you replied...I didn't see you online ^_*. So recapping:

Aradan,in view of lethality,I don't understand the numbers????

[lethality] : Percentile chance of a soldier to kill an enemy (assuming his strike has found its target). The higher the lethality, the more the kills and the less the knock-downs/knock-backs during a battle. Greatly affects the speed at which melee battles are resolved, since higher lethality means less missed hits and greater casualties in short time. It is not used in ranged combat.

stat_pri 7, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.73 Warband
stat_pri 13, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 25 ,0.87 Falxman
stat_pri 7, 1, arrow, 120, 30, missile, archery, piercing, none, 25 ,1 Warband Archer
stat_sec 3, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 25 ,1 Skirmisher knife

I do not understand the lethality values given. It reads to me that a falx is a weaker weapon than a knife at kills,and a knife is also better than a spear,and a bow has lethality???? Is this say .73 =73% chance of kill???? So 1 = 100%,the max I figure.

[Aradan]

There are other factors that affect how good a weapon is, for instance skeletons. Spearmen skeletons have a larger 'area of effect', while knife skeletons a small one, so that makes units with fs_dagger worse than identical units with fs_spearman. In the same the fs_2handed skeleton is better than the dagger one, but worse than the spear. are So, in order to compensate for that, CA used lower lethality values for the spear units quite a bit and lowered the lethality of 2handers as well. Lethality does not apply to missile weapons, so archers etc can have any value for their primary weapon.

[Kokito]

well, for a reason that I don´t know this mod in BI (Arthurian:Total War) has two descr_model_battle, so just to trying to dismount this unit I have changed both files as follows

Before As u see I have erased the parts in red

type marca_gwynedd
skeleton fs_hc_javelinman, fs_hc_swordsman
indiv_range 40
texture slave,bi/data/models_unit/textures/ATW_marca_gwynedd.tga
texture vandals, bi/data/models_unit/textures/ATW_marca_gwynedd.tga
model_flexi bi/data/models_unit/ATW_marca_gwynedd.CAS, 15
model_flexi bi/data/models_unit/ATW_marca_gwynedd.CAS, 30
model_flexi bi/data/models_unit/ATW_marca_gwynedd.CAS, 40
model_flexi bi/data/models_unit/ATW_marca_gwynedd.CAS, max
model_sprite slave, 60.0, bi/data/sprites/slave_marca_gwynedd_sprite.spr
model_sprite vandals, 60.0, bi/data/sprites/slave_marca_gwynedd_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

After

type marca_gwynedd
skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman
indiv_range 40
texture slave,bi/data/models_unit/textures/ATW_marca_gwynedd.tga
texture vandals, bi/data/models_unit/textures/ATW_marca_gwynedd.tga
;model_sprite slave, 60.0, bi/data/sprites/slave_marca_gwynedd_sprite.spr
;model_sprite vandals, 60.0, bi/data/sprites/slave_marca_gwynedd_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

Is it good?? (yeah I´m totally amateur)

Then we have this other file export_descr_unit, which strangely has two versions of the same unit (modders thing? maybe) as I have shown before so here´s what I did:

Before

type marca gwynedd
dictionary marca_gwynedd
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier marca_gwynedd, 15, 0, 1.5
officer draco_standard_mounted
mount medium horse
mount_effect elephant -8, camel -4
attributes sea_faring,hide_forest,hardy
formation 1.5, 3.5, 6, 6, 4,square,wedge
stat_health 2, 1
stat_pri 22,3, javelin, 40, 6, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10, 1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown,thrown ap, ap
stat_sec 9,12, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 10, 0.708
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 11, 8, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -1, -8, 0
stat_mental 8,impetuous,untrained
stat_charge_dist 200
stat_fire_delay -35000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 3, 450, 90, 40, 60, 450
ownership vandals, slave

Next one:

type marca gwynedd_2
dictionary marca_gwynedd
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier marca_gwynedd, 15, 0, 1.5
officer draco_standard_mounted
mount medium horse
mount_effect elephant -8, camel -4
attributes no_custom, sea_faring,hide_forest,hardy
formation 1.5, 3.5, 6, 6, 4,square,wedge
stat_health 2, 1
stat_pri 22,3, javelin, 40, 6, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10, 1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown,thrown ap, ap
stat_sec 9,12, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 10, 0.708
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 11, 8, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -1, -8, 0
stat_mental 8,impetuous,untrained
stat_charge_dist 200
stat_fire_delay -35000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 370, 70, 40, 60, 370
ownership vandals, slave

After

type marca gwynedd
dictionary marca_gwynedd
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier marca_gwynedd, 15, 0, 1.5
officer draco_standard_mounted
mount_effect elephant -8, camel -4
attributes sea_faring,hide_forest,hardy
formation 1.5, 3.5, 6, 6, 4,square,wedge
stat_health 2, 1
stat_pri 22,3, javelin, 40, 6, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10, 1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown,thrown ap, ap
stat_sec 9,12, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 10, 0.708
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 11, 8, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -1, -8, 0
stat_mental 8,impetuous,untrained
stat_charge_dist 200
stat_fire_delay -35000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 3, 450, 90, 40, 60, 450
ownership vandals, slave

Then the "I DON´T KNOW WHY ARE TWO" other unit

type marca gwynedd_2
dictionary marca_gwynedd
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier marca_gwynedd, 15, 0, 1.5
officer draco_standard_mounted
mount_effect elephant -8, camel -4
attributes no_custom, sea_faring,hide_forest,hardy
formation 1.5, 3.5, 6, 6, 4,square,wedge
stat_health 2, 1
stat_pri 22,3, javelin, 40, 6, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10, 1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown,thrown ap, ap
stat_sec 9,12, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, axe, 10, 0.708
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 11, 8, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -1, -8, 0
stat_mental 8,impetuous,untrained
stat_charge_dist 200
stat_fire_delay -35000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 370, 70, 40, 60, 370
ownership vandals, slave

And now what?? With this as you see it friends the game just CRASH!! any ideas still mates?