The US needs a Draft!

[morteduzionism]

With Presidents using authorizations for the use of force and military advisors to wage war without Congress actually declaring war wouldn't a draft make the public more...interested in what their representatives vote for in these instances?

What I suggest is that the US public wasn't savvy(cynical) enough in the late 50's early 60's. That was a time when gov't was trusted and the relationship was simply different. Most importantly the media was different.

Today is nothing like then. Would Congress have approved the POTUS request in 2002, based on that evidence, if there was a possibility that the US would soon be drafting soldiers to...bail the POTUS out of his mess? Would the standard for using military force being higher if there was a draft?

For the pacifists and those generally opposed to military service: wouldn't a draft make you more cognoscente of who you're voting for? would a draft wipe away the apathy the public has towards politics/elections?

What do you think?

[jimkatalanos]

I don't think a draft would help Americans to become more interested in politics.
Making voting mandatory would.
A draft would make soldiers and their families more interested in politics only during wartimes, and that's not certain.
Usually when there's draft a nation is more ready to fight, as many of it's citizens are or were soldiers.

[morteduzionism]

Making voting mandatory would.

I don't see how you could do this. What would be the penalty for not voting?

Tax breaks for voting! Now that might work.

I think it would make people interested. Remember I'm talking about in the future(next year or two)...so the American public would still have Iraq/Vietnam in their memories. Based on the last two Presidential elections I think the public, as a whole, is becoming more interested in politics.

With a draft midterm(Congressional) elections would be more relevant because people would want to know are they sending a rubber stamp to Washington.

[Chaigidel]

mandatory military service or civil service would be a better plan than a draft.

but I dont think the lives of citizens ever matter to the supra rich(e.g. our government)

[Ruyter0641]

We should just go back to old style warfare...we should just have our house of represenatives fight whatever political body they have...of course we would have a disadvantage against military dictatorships. We could have it in a big gladatorial arena and such...That would be way better than a draft and put the politicians who are always running us into the ground at risk of losing something rather than living in their little offices detached from the rest of us

[The Knight 2100]

Like was said before, I think if there was a draft the politicians would be more likely to fight wars because then there would not be no issue of manpower shortages.

I also think that the fear of the draft is a major deterrent to the people supporting a war, if there already is a draft, then that fear is gone.

The draft would also be expensive and it would lower the morale of the military and lower its quality as a fighting force. Taxes would have to be raised, the labor force would be affected directly and indirectly by the draft and the economy would suffer greatly.

As was said before, making voting mandatory would be more effective as a way to get people more politically involved. It's far less expensive and most likely more effective. There are many countries where voting is mandatory. Brazil used to have an all time high voter turn out of 30% until voting was made mandatory. When it was made mandatory, it totally shifted the political landscape of the country, with reformist candidates being elected. Or so I've read.

America is doing fine without a draft. A draft would just screw everything up.

[jimkatalanos]

I don't see how you could do this. What would be the penalty for not voting?

Tax breaks for voting! Now that might work.

I think it would make people interested. Remember I'm talking about in the future(next year or two)...so the American public would still have Iraq/Vietnam in their memories. Based on the last two Presidential elections I think the public, as a whole, is becoming more interested in politics.

With a draft midterm(Congressional) elections would be more relevant because people would want to know are they sending a rubber stamp to Washington.

Well in my nation voting is mandatory, and everyone is interested in politics. The apathy of the Americans was created because voting is optional.
I really don't understand how drafting will make Americans more interested.
Going to the army does not make you more interested in politics, believe me I know from personal experience.
Drafting makes people soldiers, it does not make them interested in politics.

[crazyj]

Would Congress have approved the POTUS request in 2002, based on that evidence, if there was a possibility that the US would soon be drafting soldiers to...bail the POTUS out of his mess?

You mean, would Congress have authorized the invasion if there was a possibility they'd have to draft soldiers to...bail themselves out of the mess? Funny that they can approve it, yet all responsibility rests with the CinC...


NO, we do not need a draft. Volunteers are a much better product than whining pussy cry baby Americans.

[Woad-Warrier]

No, but I do think they need to limit the presidents power. Especially the power to declare war.

[Rhinosaur]

NO, we do not need a draft. Volunteers are a much better product than whining pussy cry baby Americans.

Let me guess: they should all be rugged individuals who volunteer for service, like this guy.

[morteduzionism]

mandatory military service or civil service would be a better plan than a draft.

Mandatory service is worse. I "have" to serve in the military...even during peacetime...what if I don't want to. As opposed to serving when the country needs me.

we should just have our house of represenatives fight whatever political body they have

Or the countries leaders...i.e. Bush vs. Husein in a caged death match

Like was said before, I think if there was a draft the politicians would be more likely to fight wars because then there would not be no issue of manpower shortages.

I think the very type of politician elected would change. I think people would start being more interested in their officials. Think about it: all the groups and orgs that would arise to tell people, 'this candidate is a war monger' etc etc etc...I don't think politicians that are quick to use military force would be popular anymore(that's just my opinion)

Also, I think politicians are more apt to use force because it is a volunteer force. They volunteered to go wherever they were sent.

The draft would also be expensive and it would lower the morale of the military and lower its quality as a fighting force. Taxes would have to be raised, the labor force would be affected directly and indirectly by the draft and the economy would suffer greatly.

I think you're basing this opinion on Vietnam. Would you consider morale during WWII low? I think the morale was low because they were sending people to an unpopular conflict and the reasons didn't make sense to people. Add that to the micromanagement of the conflict = low morale. I don't think the draft was the sole reason.

Why I see it'd be different is that Congress would be held to a higher level of accountability than before. If/When a conflict appeared on the horizon and a Pres. sought authorization to use force the public(if they didn't support it) would look at their officials and say, "vote for it at your own risk." For the current conflict it was discovered that very few hard questions were asked. The White House painted a picture of imminent threat and the Congress caved.

With a draft, I don't think we would even have heard about military options against Iran brought up as a hypothetical academic discussion. People would want to know, 'where do you want to send me/my child and why?'

As was said before, making voting mandatory would be more effective as a way to get people more politically involved. It's far less expensive and most likely more effective.

How do you make people vote? Besides just because you "have" to vote doesn't mean you care about issues. No. The only way to get people to take an interest in something is if it directly affects their lives.

America is doing fine without a draft. A draft would just screw everything up.

By "fine" you mean stretched to the limit and unable to meet any unexpected future problems?

Well in my nation voting is mandatory, and everyone is interested in politics. The apathy of the Americans was created because voting is optional.

What happens if you don't vote? The apathy was not "created" because voting is optional. The apathy with US politics from it's citizens has been growing for decades. Some say it was Kennedys' assasination. Regardless, there is no single reason for the apathy.

I really don't understand how drafting will make Americans more interested.

Because decisions would directly affect you or your immediate family. What's the saying: a man can focus when his lifes on the line(or something like that). Don't forget you only need to draft when you go to war...if the citizens DO NOT elect fire breathing :wub: talking people like Giuliani then people wouldn't really have to worry too much about being drafted.

Going to the army does not make you more interested in politics, believe me I know from personal experience.

This is my exact argument against mandatory service.

You mean, would Congress have authorized the invasion if there was a possibility they'd have to draft soldiers to...bail themselves out of the mess? Funny that they can approve it, yet all responsibility rests with the CinC...

Basically. It's both of their responsibilities. But the President had said he'd use all available options...he just paid lip service to diplomacy and went right to the use of force. Advisors told him the force he was sending was too small. Would he have still sent it if he knew the only way to get more would be to draft? I don't know.

NO, we do not need a draft. Volunteers are a much better product than whining pussy cry baby Americans.

Are you from the US? If not, could your countries army beat ours...even if we used draftees?

[Chaigidel]

mandatory military/ civil service is not limited to military-- they do it in germany and you can opt out of military service in favor of assisted living or other social civil programs.

[RZZZA]

goddamn, what happened to the days of privacy, solitude and rugged individualism? Nowadays its all beauracracy and government. Screw civilization, I'm gonna be a hermit.

[Chaigidel]

we are running out of space to be hermits in

[Roy Batty]

goddamn, what happened to the days of privacy, solitude and rugged individualism? Nowadays its all beauracracy and government. Screw civilization, I'm gonna be a hermit.

To me, that is all that can be done. I have no hopes of changing the world with my vote. I just want my quiet piece of paradise somewhere, preferably with a broadband internet connection so I can still socialize through the 'Net when I feel the need.

[PacSubCom]

Right now the US has a mercenary army. A popular army doesn't serve the purpose, the waging of colonial wars, at all, because the powers that are saw what happened in Vietnam: Drop of morale, drug abuse, defying of orders, fragging of officers (dropping grenades into their tents), total disintegration.

With a popular army, many more people will ask themselves what the **** they are doing there, and much more dissenting commentary will flow out of the armed forces. The public will get a first hand impression of what these wars are like, and that is to be avoided.

In short: Right now, only fanatics, idiots, and the desperate join the army, with a draft the smart and lazy people will take part, and these people are able to destroy a government and the war effort in general.

For these reasons, there will never be a draft in the US.

[Shaba Wangy]

Are you from the US? If not, could your countries army beat ours...even if we used draftees?

Ha! I seriously hope this guy is Iraqi. The US army is getting beat by civilians over there.

I love this idea. Its the age old cure - "Have a headache? Chop of your left hand and you'll forget all about the head ache."

Well thought out in deed

[LoZz]

drafting is a bad idea, any professional soilder does not want some poor moral draftie who doesnt want to be their and is only looking after number 1 watching his back.

drafted soilders have poor moral, poor training and are just generialy speaking poor quality soilders

[RZZZA]

3 british SAS soldiers were capable of holding down an entire gang of punks, hundreds of them...in Sierra Leone...

So yeah, I tend to agree that anything less than a properly trained volunteer soldier is rather useless. I mean I saw this documentary a few days ago about British SAS in Sierra Leone doing a rescue mission, and a handful of SAS could hold down many times their own number of warlord militia armed with ak-47's.

A draftee is not much different than that rabble of militia....drunken, drugged up, undisciplined hoodlums is all they are, not soldiers.

[Thanatos]

A draftee is not much different than that rabble of militia....drunken, drugged up, undisciplined hoodlums is all they are, not soldiers.

Tell that to Israel.