LTC 3.0 unit balance question

[Slaists]

Just wondered which factions have been thoroughly rebalanced and which ones have been paid less attention to?

Take Venice, for example:

Venitian heavy infantry (VHI) is available from an earlier barracks building than dismounted men at arms (DMA); VHI has way better stats than DMA; VHI is cheaper; VHI has cheaper upkeep.

I would understand the stats and costs balance if VHI were available from a higher level barracks building than DMA (effectively making them a later unit), but no the way it is implemented now.

[Lusted]

Venitian heavy infantry (VHI) is available from an earlier barracks building than dismounted men at arms (DMA); VHI has way better stats than DMA; VHI is cheaper; VHI has cheaper upkeep.

VHI has better stats, and costs 700 to MAA 430 to reflect this. They are not cheaper than MAA. Given the fact MAA are the cheaper less effective Italian equivalent of DCK, they appear at the same level as them.

[Slaists]

to me, the main cost of the unit is not the purchase price, but the upkeep. the upkeep of DMA is much higher than upkeep of VHI.

anyway, is your point that you are just introducing a redundant unit at the top of the technology tree for venitians?

[Garnier]

to me, the main cost of the unit is not the purchase price, but the upkeep. the upkeep of DMA is much higher than upkeep of VHI.

Yes of course the big cost is the upkeep.

Does the AI take upkeep into account though? If not, you could make better units cheaper to purchase, but have more upkeep.

[Lusted]

to me, the main cost of the unit is not the purchase price, but the upkeep. the upkeep of DMA is much higher than upkeep of VHI.

Depends what your using the unit for.

anyway, is your point that you are just introducing a redundant unit at the top of the technology tree for venitians?

No, more like a cheaper version of the DCK other factions get. It would be a bit silly Italian factions getting DMAA when other factions get DFK.

[Slaists]

but what's the point of the "cheaper" DCK's (in the form of DMA) if the earlier unit venetians get is way better... both in attack (in straight attack value + having armor piercing attribute) and defense... and available from an earlier barracks builging... is there any, I mean ANY, niche advantage that DMA's have over VHI other than cheaper recruiting cost, which gets annuled in ... like... 3.5 turns... (225 upkeep for DMA versus 150 upkeep for VHI for 430 recruitting cost for DMA versus 700 recruting cost for VHI)?

[Garnier]

Seriously, if the upkeep is the same, the unit can hardly be called cheaper.

And yes I agree that something should be done about this. But it would take a lot of work to balance the costs of all units. IIRC, spear militia have less upkeep than sergeant spearmen, despite being the same in every way except having free upkeep in cities. That's just ridiculous.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

But sergeant spearmen is better than spear militia stats don't show difference but descr_unit show. If I find some time I will balance unit costs but don't be suprised if units with same stats will have different cost/upkeep (different mount ,stamina training all hidden staff).Unit price can be easy changed and don't afect current campaign.

[pajomife]

Lusted, formations apart ,the big differences between your and darths files are:
-The darths soldiers fight until the last man when meele.Yours, even the elite units retreat before lose 2/3 of the troops.
-Yours missiles units have a better behavior ,they simple don't start to run in front of their army , walk in formation, and stops at a relactive secure distance to fight.
-Your cavalry charge ,darths,charge, stops at middle ,charge again,stops ,another charge...well a big mess .
I open a xml editor and try to converge yours files ,but i don't understand to much,i just ask you or anybody ,is what lines should i change to give "more courage " to your army?
Other BIG ISSUE ,the major one ,is the phalanx formations speed ,the AI
voulge militia arrive at battle when the battle are finished ,can we speed they?Or remove the phalanges formations?

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Soldiers fight to the last man only if morale is off. You can change it in cfg file morale = 0

[Lusted]

but what's the point of the "cheaper" DCK's (in the form of DMA) if the earlier unit venetians get is way better... both in attack (in straight attack value + having armor piercing attribute) and defense... and available from an earlier barracks builging... is there any, I mean ANY, niche advantage that DMA's have over VHI other than cheaper recruiting cost, which gets annuled in ... like... 3.5 turns... (225 upkeep for DMA versus 150 upkeep for VHI for 430 recruitting cost for DMA versus 700 recruting cost for VHI)?

Well that's what they are in my mod, cheaper DCK for when you are low on cash and need good quality troops. Im not changing them.

-The darths soldiers fight until the last man when meele.Yours, even the elite units retreat before lose 2/3 of the troops.

I don't want battles lasting hours, im not having all soldiers fight to the death, that's incredibly boring.

Other BIG ISSUE ,the major one ,is the phalanx formations speed ,the AI
voulge militia arrive at battle when the battle are finished ,can we speed they?Or remove the phalanges formations?

You cannot spped them up and i am not removing the formation.