Why do black people keep trying to claim Hannibal?

[Kennylz]

I say this because I keep hearing him claimed by people of African (sub-saharan) descent, and in black guys dressed up in a helmet, and a cloak. The new Vin Diesel movie will have an alright likeness to him, even if I'm suspicious of Vin Diesels acting ability to carry out a movie about my favorite General of all time, but the movie is being flanked by a new 'show' coming to BET.

Black Entertainment Television.
"Hannibal the Conqueror."

Vin Diesel is not African, nor black. His 'look' with the magic of cosmetics could make him fit the character, but a show also coming to BET totally puzzles me. Are they going to depict Hannibal as a great black icon from history like I've seen others do in the past?

He was not! He was ****ing Phoenician! I have more claim of the man then them! Not only was he not black, but he had a whole different race of people, and a big bloody desert as buffer with the same race of African people that were enslaved by the europeanors!

Politically correctness be damned. I feel like my history is being trampled every time an African-American takes liberties with the word 'African', and automatically assumes Hannibal had any sort of relation with the same people that had the great Zulu Empire.

Pffft. Call me a racist all you want. I'd curl up, and die before I ever allowed anyone to re-write history.

All I can hope is that the movie turns out well, and that the cartoon is a total flop.

This could of went in art, but I feel its a very political subject, due to the reason why, he is often portrayed black.

And no, he wasn't white either, he was Phoenician.

[Miraj]

100% Agreed.

Only really the Lebanese have the most accurate claim to him. Modern Tunisians might, but alot of them are of Berber and Arabic blood. Africanologists (or whatever their called) tend to do the same thing with the Moors of Spain, claiming what were essentially olive-skinned Berbers and Arabs as Africans.

But Vin Diesel could pass for a Lebanese... maybe.

[Matt]

They're trying to falsify arguments for their unfounded pride of Black culture.

[Erik]

Only really the Lebanese have the most accurate claim to him. Modern Tunisians might, but alot of them are of Berber and Arabic blood.

The Arabs imposed their culture on Tunisians, but they did not replace much of the population.
If anyone can "claim" Hannibal it should be the Tunisians.

Africanologists (or whatever their called) tend to do the same thing with the Moors of Spain, claiming what were essentially olive-skinned Berbers and Arabs as Africans.

Uhhh.... Moors were black (for the most part at least).

I think you make the same mistake in believing all Muslims in the world descended from a tiny group of 20 "original" Muslims who all had 10.000 babies each, so they could grow into an empire of millions in just two generations.

No, that's not how it worked.
Moors were CONVERTED to Islam, they were not Arabs or Berbers, but Negro's (except for some of their leaders).
In my language we even have an expression which translates to "Black as a Moor", which means "Pitch black" because that was the actual color of their skin (not brown like most Afro-Americans).

[iudas]

100% Agreed.

Only really the Lebanese have the most accurate claim to him. Modern Tunisians might, but alot of them are of Berber and Arabic blood. Africanologists (or whatever their called) tend to do the same thing with the Moors of Spain, claiming what were essentially olive-skinned Berbers and Arabs as Africans.

But Vin Diesel could pass for a Lebanese... maybe.

But I'm sure the Lebanese were as Arabicised as the Tunisians. Don't you think Phoenician/Carthaginian people stayed there even after the Roman conquest and Dark Ages? Remember that Phoenicia was also conquered by Rome.

[removeduser_487563287433]

But I'm sure the Lebanese were as Arabicised as the Tunisians. Don't you think Phoenician/Carthaginian people stayed there even after the Roman conquest and Dark Ages? Remember that Phoenicia was also conquered by Rome.

You can't 'arabicise' genetics. The Phoenicians most certainly remained after the Roman conquest. We know for certain that Punic continued to be spoken in Tunisia until the mid first millenium.

[kev-o]

Huh. Shouldn't this thread be in the Arts?

[boofhead]

I have no idea, really. It is just lies or ignorance - "He was from Africa? He must be black."

Others claim Jesus was black....WTF?

Here is a bust of Hannibal



It was found in Capua, and supposedly was made in his honour while he was in Italy.

He doesn't look black to me.

EDIT: Every contemporary coin of him also has him with a great beaked Semitic nose.

[DariusEG]

Don't watch BET please. I'm Black and I hate it. It is the most crappy stereotypical channel that you can probably find.

This isn't really PC or anything like that. It's really a mis-observation, people see he was coming from Africa so they assume he was African.

Africanologists

Afrocentrists

They're trying to falsify arguments for their unfounded pride of Black culture.

We actually have pride in a lot of things. Everyone has pride in something. I could care less about what I can have pride in, though.

Please people, don't turn this thread against Blacks.

[Matt]

Actually there could be a socio-economical reason for their claim.

But they would reply that they are not as educated because of discrimation, yet... why can I name a few dozen of famous Jewish intellectuals right off the bat ?

[Miraj]

We actually have pride in a lot of things. Everyone has pride in something. I could care less about what I can have pride in, though.

I agree that Matt's senseless comments was simply malicious in intent.

I just don't understand why a whole group of people running a channel can be so foolish?

It less to do with black people and more to do with American ignorance of history and the nuances of it in general. Even most white Americans will automatically assume "black" when you use the word African. They simply don't know (or care to) enough about Phoenician history to really tell the difference.

Actually there could be a socio-economical reason for their claim.

But they would reply that they are not as educated because of discrimation, yet... why can I name a few dozen of famous Jewish intellectuals right off the bat ?

So you're going to use this thread as platform to attack black people?

Great job. Now get in :wub: line.

[Matt]

So you're going to use this thread as platform to attack black people?

Great job. Now get in :wub: line.

I'm not discrediting black people. I'm only asking answers about my statements, which include undeniable facts.

You might consider the correlation of race and intelligence as racist, but being in complete denial against it because of political correctness is wrong. But of course the definition of intelligence has been the center of an avid debate for years.

[NaptownKnight]

I'm not discrediting black people. I'm only asking answers about my statements, which include undeniable facts.

You might consider the correlation of race and intelligence as racist, but being in complete denial against it because of political correctness is wrong. But of course the definition of intelligence has been the center of an avid debate for years.

So basically you are saying black people are stupid. You're not being politically in correct, you are being racist. There is no correlation between race and intelligence. You're arguments about the accomplishments of the Black race are very uninformed, they have done far more things than what you give them credit for, including having highly creative and intelligent people, need I post a list?

[Anarion]

We actually have pride in a lot of things. Everyone has pride in something. I could care less about what I can have pride in, though.

Please people, don't turn this thread against Blacks.

What pride would that be?

[DariusEG]

What pride would that be? Big guns, drugs, killing each other and finding it cool? Being the most criminal population in the US?

Yeah, I find killing people and all that very cool. It's just so much fun, oh my god, I think I'm addicted. I think I'm going to go do some drugs and kill someone right now and say, "Wow, that was cool."

[Miraj]

Yeah, I find killing people and all that very cool. It's just so much fun, oh my god, I think I'm addicted. I think I'm going to go do some drugs and kill someone right now and say, "Wow, that was cool."

Don't worry about him Darius. I've seen him trolling racist remarks regularly on numerous threads. He even lashed out at "barbaric" Arabs in my mod's subforums a little while ago. He's just probably bitter over some personal stuff. Let him steam, maybe it'll help him in the long run.

[Kennylz]

I just don't understand why a whole group of people running a channel can be so foolish?

I've never seen this channel before, but I checked its site, and its nothing but black people, and black programming. Would this show coming to the channel be anything but a portrayal of hannibal as black?

[DariusEG]

I just don't understand why a whole group of people running a channel can be so foolish?

I've never seen this channel before, but I checked its site, and its nothing but black people, and black programming. Would this show coming to the channel be anything but a portrayal of hannibal as black?

Like I said, it is a stereotypical channel this presumes itself as "Black Representation".

[kev-o]

They figure he came from Africa so he must be black. I wonder if these blacks realize that Egypt is full of Arabs.

[Ozy]

I dont know why that happens, probably because he comes from Africa, the way the moors are pictured in many movies as black guys, but they were from many nationalities, as the Carthaginians. According to historians Carthage was a really racially diverse city, as well as some Moorish cities like Cordoba.

Ive always imagined Hannibal as a light brown skinned guy, or kind of dark skinned white guy, with curly hair. So i think Vin Diesel would fit there, but i just cant picture him as Hannibal, it just seems so weird...