The Curia and its Role

[Fabolous]

I ask all of you, and I do mean all of you, from the great Council to our numerous simple citizens who comprise the majority of our Curia, what you think the Curia's role is? Or does it serve many roles? Or none at all?

[Perikles]

It's role is to advance the site: through ideas, members, or watching the administration.

You could really say that the Curia controls the site, indirectly of course. Let's face it, if no-one in the Curia agrees with something the chances of it happening have been, in the past, very slim.

Although this doesn't mean the Curia can do whatever it wants, it just means the administration can't really either.

[Fabolous]

It's role is to advance the site: through ideas, members, or watching the administration.

If Ideas are the role... then were are those ideas? Do you have some examples of some Curial ideas?

If members is the Curia's role, isn't it failing miserably as compared to the general populace of the site?

If watching then administration is the role, then why is the amount of Curial oversight so often made an issue?

You could really say that the Curia controls the site, indirectly of course. Let's face it, if no-one in the Curia agrees with something the chances of it happening have been, in the past, very slim.

Although this doesn't mean the Curia can do whatever it wants, it just means the administration can't really either.

The occasions were no one in the Curia agreeing with something are quite few and far between. Actually, outside of issues were ON was directly or indirectly involved, there are almost none that spring to mind. Given the way ON was viewed vs. how Imb is viewed (the oppressor vs. the savior) is it even possible to get such a Curial consensus against one of his actions? And if it isn't, than isn't the administration able to do full well whatever it wants?

[Tom Paine]

I do have examples of Curial ideas. reorganisation of the CC, for a start. As far as I can see this is a re-opening of a perennial topic that has finally got an answer; the Curia has a part in site governance in terms of organisation (aforementioned CC reorganisation, site awards both being dealt with by the Curia); oversight (VoNC, Speaker and their Reports); and overall, acting as a part of site governance in terms of a collection of highly experienced individuals such as yourself, and thereby in an advisory/issue-raising capacity. I think the fact is, the Curia has not yet utilised its newfound ability to deal with site governance (eg, passing Decisions on the ToS); if I try to revitalise it, I am accused of activism; if others are, they receive little support. This is something the Curia needs to address itself; it has a strong and active role, which it is beginning to return to. I hope it fulfils its massive potential.

I hasten to add this is wholly unofficial/personal, and not reflective of the opinion of the actual hex body; any answer reflecting that will be a while in the discussion.

[Fabolous]

I do have examples of Curial ideas. reorganisation of the CC, for a start. As far as I can see this is a re-opening of a perennial topic that has finally got an answer;

Is it really a Curial idea if it has already been a perennial topic? And you say it got an answer... but for how long? CC has been reformed before. And TW reformed more than CC. I don't think this will stop being a perennial topic. Forum structure never fails to be a complaint on any forum I've visited.

the Curia has a part in site governance in terms of organisation (aforementioned CC reorganisation, site awards both being dealt with by the Curia);

Is the Curia organizing site awards? Ah good... though many seem rather upset by the Curia's heavy level of involvement so far.

oversight (VoNC, Speaker and their Reports);

I'll ask of you what I asked of Perikles, if oversight is a primary task of the Curia, why is the level of Curial oversight on staff so often complained of? For example (and this is probably a poor one, but on my mind) on ratification members are complaining of a 1/3rd of the Curia being in disagreement being too much oversight on staff.

and overall, acting as a part of site governance in terms of a collection of highly experienced individuals such as yourself, and thereby in an advisory/issue-raising capacity.

To advise, it is often difficult to do so without being asked (else you are just interjecting where it is not wanted), would you say hex ask for advise? And for issue-raising, do you think hex accepts issues being raised well?

I think the fact is, the Curia has not yet utilised its newfound ability to deal with site governance (eg, passing Decisions on the ToS);

Would hex allow being instructed and what they are and are not allowed to moderator and allow on the site?

if I try to revitalise it, I am accused of activism; if others are, they receive little support. This is something the Curia needs to address itself; it has a strong and active role, which it is beginning to return to. I hope it fulfils its massive potential.

Why do claims of your activism bother you? Do you consider activism in a Speaker bad? As for others trying but recieveing little support, I'm not sure what you mean here. Why would any member's proposal recieve less support than any other member's prospoal except on the merits of that proposal? And therefore, isn't the issue not the members trying to revitalize, but the ideas of the revitalization itself?

[Tom Paine]

Is it really a Curial idea if it has already been a perennial topic? And you say it got an answer... but for how long? CC has been reformed before. And TW reformed more than CC. I don't think this will stop being a perennial topic. Forum structure never fails to be a complaint on any forum I've visited.

The perennial topic line was as regards the matter of Curial role.

Is the Curia organizing site awards? Ah good... though many seem rather upset by the Curia's heavy level of involvement so far.

By "many" you mean, what, one or two? No, what people are annoyed by is the exclusionary claims by certain members of the Curia, as though no other member of the site had a stake in the matter.

I'll ask of you what I asked of Perikles, if oversight is a primary task of the Curia, why is the level of Curial oversight on staff so often complained of? For example (and this is probably a poor one, but on my mind) on ratification members are complaining of a 1/3rd of the Curia being in disagreement being too much oversight on staff.

I don't believe that's the problem at the heart of that debate. What is, is the level of support a staff member should have from the Curia before he may become a staff member. Oversight is not being complained about: Note the Tribunal thread, where oversight is being referenced by both sides as needing to be retained, for instance.

To advise, it is often difficult to do so without being asked (else you are just interjecting where it is not wanted), would you say hex ask for advise? And for issue-raising, do you think hex accepts issues being raised well?

I would say Hex does accept issues being raised; as for advising, the Curia was founded as has continued on the premise of advising. My own conclusion is, therefore, that hex has asked for advice on any subject the Curia cares to give it on, except specific clearly laid out exceptions.

Would hex allow being instructed and what they are and are not allowed to moderator and allow on the site?

See the Speaker's Report: the ToS is being reviewed and Curial suggestions would certainly be looked at with interest by Hex.

Why do claims of your activism bother you? Do you consider activism in a Speaker bad? As for others trying but recieveing little support, I'm not sure what you mean here. Why would any member's proposal recieve less support than any other member's prospoal except on the merits of that proposal? And therefore, isn't the issue not the members trying to revitalize, but the ideas of the revitalization itself?

I don't. But I'm meant, in part, to be representative of the Curia (a difficult job given the disparate collection of individuals making this up). Ergo, if the Curia thinks its bad (which, as far as I can tell, it doesn't particularly) I won't be one; but I have to take the minority view into account as well. Of course, that minority view is that I shouldn't be Speaker, but meh...

By the by, I agree on your last line, but I don't think that gets us any further... the ideas of revitalisation need to come from within the Curia, I think. If I have any, I'll put them forward, come what may, don't worry.

[Lusted]

Well i'd say the role of the Curia was to help improve the site, help advise on policy, think of ways to improve things for existing members and new members, and to generally be a nice part of the site that helps keep people around.

In the aftermath of events in January i chatted quite a lot with Imb about the Curia, i had the idea of it becoming a place devoted to improving and expanding the site, it's why i proposed the guiding principle bill, a guiding principle which hasn't really been used to it's fullest.

If the Curia is full of the best and the brightest on this site as i'd like to believe, then it should be a place for improving the site, and making proposals related to that, and generally discussing how to make TWC better without losing what makes TWC special.

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

I agree with what Lusted said.

Personally, I think the best thing that could happen to the Curia would be its ability to change the Consitution/Syntagma be removed totally.

Change the remit so the Curia passes Decisions all the time - then maybe, just maybe it'd get away from all the nitpicking and onto doing interesting stuff

[HorseArcher]

I agree with what Lusted said.

Personally, I think the best thing that could happen to the Curia would be its ability to change the Consitution/Syntagma be removed totally.

I support!

[Mímirswell]

I agree with what Lusted said.

Personally, I think the best thing that could happen to the Curia would be its ability to change the Consitution/Syntagma be removed totally.

Change the remit so the Curia passes Decisions all the time - then maybe, just maybe it'd get away from all the nitpicking and onto doing interesting stuff

I have been pushing for this for some time... perhaps it's time to write a bill.

[sapi]

I have been pushing for this for some time... perhaps it's time to write a bill.

You think that we're missing the forest for the trees?

You might be on to something there; but whether you could get enough support for, literally, the amendment ending all amendments, remains to be seen...

[Mímirswell]

Time to find out.

[Oswald von Wolkenstein]

They're working on the cure. Aren't they?