Fighting the Phalanx

[P014K]

So, I just got RTW and am playing vanilla. Probably going to update to DM. Anyways, I am playing as the Brutii and I was planning on attacking Sparta, so I landed troops in Thermon (sp?) and took that over first. On my way to Sparta, the Macedons decide to betray our alliance and attack me.

Their Phalanxed troops with the long spears completely own my units. My Hastati (sp?) and Cavalry don't stand a chance.

Suggestions?

[Lucius Vorenus]

So, I just got RTW and am playing vanilla. Probably going to update to DM. Anyways, I am playing as the Brutii and I was planning on attacking Sparta, so I landed troops in Thermon (sp?) and took that over first. On my way to Sparta, the Macedons decide to betray our alliance and attack me.

Their Phalanxed troops with the long spears completely own my units. My Hastati (sp?) and Cavalry don't stand a chance.

Suggestions?

Stay in a line away from them if possible, and be disciplined. I found that when I went up against the German Phalanxes, the way to beat them was they'd advance one at a time, leaving their flanks wide open. Leave the unit he's attacking to stand there, and then use the one next to it to go around the phalanx's side. From the side, they're pretty easy to beat. With cavalry, let the pikes advance to your infantry and just let the infantry take it, but not for too long. Wheel your cavalry into the rear of the phalanx and charge. Easy pickins from there.

Also, if you're gonna take Sparta, let me warn you: There are Spartan Hoplites there. Possible the best infantry in the game, especially if you attack from the front. But with just Hastati, not even the flanking will work, nor will the cavalry. My advice for when you face Sparta is get as many ranged units as possible: Peltasts, Velites, slingers, Merc Cretan Archers if you can, and just take them out from afar. Because trying to do it hand to hand might wipe out your army.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

I usually play on Hard, sometimes on VH, but it's easy to beat a phalanx. Hastati aren't high quality infantry for sure, but compared to other units your enemies can field with a Militia Barracks, they are disciplined and capable soldiers well able to hold their line enough for you to wheel your cavalry and hit the phalanxes on the rear.

They are flexible, too, what means you can make flanking maneuvers with them. Just lure a phalanx with some hastati (beware of supporting troops) to an area, then maneuver your other hastati to the flanks or rear and then hit them hard. Putting your units to fire at will and attacking them with pila, especially from the rear, can make some less steadfast hoplites (such as Levy Pikemen) run for the hills even before any serious fighting.

[P014K]

Thanks for the Sparta advice.

I've tried flanking them with cav., but when I charge, they just turn around and reform the phalanx very quickly. They ignore the inf. they're attacking and go right for cav.

Also, when I'm already fighting them, they form the phalanx and my horses die by just standing there.

[Kraut]

I've tried flanking them with cav., but when I charge, they just turn around and reform the phalanx very quickly.

Yes they do. But that´s not a problem at all, just use some micromanagment.

The Phalanx has only ONE business end, so if they ignore your Hastati and turn to slaughter the Equites, just stop your cavalry charge (preferably BEFORE they get impaled by the Greek spears) and charge in with your Infantry (which should have a free path by now). After that the Phalanx will get messy and you can wheel your cav around it to charge from another side.

This principle is always true: use TWO units (no matter Inf or Cav) to attack a Phalanx. They can face only one, the other unit is free to charge them.

And for this one:

Also, when I'm already fighting them, they form the phalanx and my horses die by just standing there.

Yes, this is a problem. Never ever, really NEVER let your cavalry stay in Melee for long. Charge, withdraw, charge, withdraw, rinse and repeat.

I know, this kind of micromanagment is annoying, but hard times need hard work

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

A Phalanx alone is very easy to kill, and indeed, despite the Macedonian pikes being inferior to greek hoplites in a 1 vs. 1 combat, they have a much larger cavalry support and thus can flank the hoplites very easily. Macedon is more difficult to defeat thanks to that, while for a Roman or Barbarian player the apparently stronger greek hoplites are an easy target to kill; the greeks most of the time only field a General's Bodyguard, and they're easy to kill with two light cavalry units, one of them engaging them in melee and the other charging from the rear, breaking off and then charging again. Greek bodyguards are inferior to all other bodyguards in the game (the Thracian bodyguard has combat bonus in snow but is less disciplined) thus they are easier to take down.

[king-nord]

Don't attack the phalanx head on and just stop. Try running your infantry through the phalanx they lose formation, and use swords instead.

I don't know if this orks anymore but i used it on 1.3 (multiplayer) a lot.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Don't attack the phalanx head on and just stop. Try running your infantry through the phalanx they lose formation, and use swords instead.

I don't know if this orks anymore but i used it on 1.3 (multiplayer) a lot.

One valuable strategy against a phalanx is to leave your infantry line as thin as possible (single-line), then, your soldiers will get around the ends of the phalanx forcing them to fight with swords. Also, any soldiers who rout an enemy can be brought quickly to flank the phalanx, thus dealing a decisive blow.

Beware of enemy heavy cavalry and chariots, though. Always have some spearmen ready on your flanks, and your cavalry ready to maneuver.

[Lord Romanus III]

I use a roman type formation for bloodying a phalanx.

A=skirmishers
B=hasatai
C=second line of inf.
D=third line of reserve or odd units

enemy is right where my text is

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

____BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB_____
CCCCCC_____________CCCCCC
__________DDDDDDD__________

Like that your skirmishers will draw them into your first line. Then using your second you can draw them back or seperate the AI phalanx. Your third line will be able to break through small gaps. Thats how you can deal with a phalanx without cavalry.

I learned about this tactic from the battle of Actium. I tried and tested it. It works normally with little more than 20-30% losses.

[LeonidasOfSparta]

First you should have skhirmishers and archers fire at them( possibly from left side, their shields are on right) and when they close enough your hastati should throw as many pillas as possible at them then retrat and flank them with your cavalry.When they turn around retreat cav and charge with hastati, at their now open rear and repeat so until done. If you charge them from both sides they should broke and rout.Hope this helps.

LeonidasOfSparta

[Aristarchus]

One valuable strategy against a phalanx is to leave your infantry line as thin as possible (single-line), then, your soldiers will get around the ends of the phalanx forcing them to fight with swords.

I just lost my Dacia campaign due to fighting off Macedonian armies, which caused me to neglect my dangerous fronts with Rome and Britannia; but it gave me lots of experience breaking phalanxes and I tried various tactics. Long infantry lines are bad news, because it's harder to maneuver in the field and avoid the spearpoints. If part of a unit gets pricked they all may turn to fight and lose. The melee units have to squeeze in tight spaces between phalanxes to flank them. Boxed units give the best flexibility for moving in any direction. (I do use long lines against Scythia, because I want them to catch me and stop running!) I also tried the tactic suggested above to pass cavalry through the phalanxes instead of attacking and fighting them, but that only sometimes worked, and more horses were killed than the enemy. Even charging with cavalry from three sides only sometimes worked; other times they were slaughtered and routed. And cavalry need to stay on the field to chase down the phalanxes once they break or they will reform and you have to break them all over again. As Dacia I had good chosen archers and used five units to concentrate on each phalanx in turn to worry them while working onto their flanks. The process was extremely tedious, because I had to watch every unit on the field every quarter minute or so to be sure they were a good distance from the roving phalanxes, which can lift their spears and charge pretty fast.

[Borluc]

If you are considering one unit at a time, then use missile units to soften the phalanx. Next engage with a high defense unit and use a high attack unit to flank their position. This works, but I find it to be annoying that I have to commit so many units to defeating them.

I prefer to look at the enemy battle line and take it as a whole. Again, soften with missiles. You will need an anchor of defense units to take their line and hold it temporarily. Next, hit one flank hard with multiple units (horses and heavy infantry work best). Watch their line roll up like a blanket as the rout chain begins.

This works best with kingdoms that have some sort of pikes themselves. Romans can achieve it by using their layer formations (hastati, principes). You just have to choose when you want to flank them. Pull the hastati back if they get beat too bad and use them to flank. Barbarians? Haven't thought about it much.

Remember that while you do this, you need some spears, heavy infantry, or riders to engage and lock down their cavalry. Use rock, paper, scissors to outthink them when it comes to this.

[Colossus]

Unless they have phalanx pikes or better they will have rubbish morale and rubbish defense, lots of missile units make short work of them.

[Archer of Sparta]

The key here is too pound with enough far ranged attacks as possible as the phalanx gets to you. Then flank the hell out of them.

As the phalanx comes set your hastati to fire at will, set your archers and skirmishers to fire at will and watch as the enemy gets pounded. Once the phalanx comes they'll be weakened and a bit scared, don't worry just use your hastati to lure them back into your field, take your back up units and flank the sides as they get closer into your territory. Once you manage to lure them in right and flanked their sides right the phalanx will struggle as it is surrounded, it will either continue to attack your hastati in the front or turn around and attack your back ups behind them, either way you'll lose some units but they're doomed. They'll hold for about 1 - 2 minutes once you locked it in then they'll flee.

As you probably have noticed macedon has varius weak units but very numerous armys, so you might be out numbered but don't let your nerves get you, you will always be stronger if you develope your armies to have a mix of archers javalins and infantry.

[Arcani 4 Ever]

Hint: Phalanx Units are slow even if they have their phalanx mode off.

You can use it for your advantage, use cavalry, specially praetorian cavalry,
sacred band cavalry, gothic cavalry, companion cavalry, which are very well armoured cavalry and attack them from the flanks or behind, when you charge the the first time retreat as fast as you can, and again take advantage of their slow movement and charge them, them when nearly half of the are gone send your primary infantry spearman units, while they are destroying them, use your archers to kill the rest of them. Then if you want to kill em all use your cavalry and rest in peace hoplites.

[Assyrian]

No problem when i was carthage i would beat them with all peasants. ok first you are faster and more manuverable then the phalanx so you can split your army normally they will split also and you just surround them or you can do somthing easier just stretch your lines farther than theirs and let them engage you make sure you have unengages units on the flanks and simply go down the line flanking them it works like a charm for me

[dre123]

You are ın a perfect posıtıon to beat them. - Alexander the great used hıs phalanx to pın an enemy ın 1 posıtıon whıle he and hıs heavy cavalry would go around the flanks of the enemy ınfantry whıle they were engaged ın combat and then charge them from the flanks or from behınd. If the Macedonıans have more and better cavalry then you then I do not know what to do

[Dr. Croccer]

Depends on what kind of phalanx unit it is. If it is a militia/levy phalanx then it is easy, sometimes normal hoplites/pikemen are easy to defeat as well: Don't be afraid to charge cavalry over them, just don't send your general. Stronger ones like Silver Shield, AH, Spartans and Sacred Band will be much harder. Try to flank them.

[Aristarchus]

Depends on what kind of phalanx unit it is.

I take back my assured answer above saying to just attack from several sides at once. This worked on my first games playing the French on (M) battle difficulty and with fast German axemen on (VH) - charge the front line up to the edge of the spearpoints and stop, charge hard on each flank, and try to get something around to the rear - but now I am facing Macedonian royal phalanxes with Dacian swordsmen, having a hard time. (For once the Brutii have not annihilated Macedonia and they are coming at me with wave after wave of full armies full with phalanxes and heavy cavalry - a real challenge!) I have to first decimate the cavalry units so I have leisure to isolate each phalanx unit, harrass and skip around it, pepper it with arrows, and never use cavalry until it routs. Often I have to let them just march unmolested off the field once their general is gone.

[QuintusJulius-Cicero]

Doesn't matter what Phalanx it is. Flanking works.