Advice regarding a possible Upgrade (Or new PC)

[Ahiga]

Hey all,

I've been having some nagging issues with this PC, and now that the company I bought it from has gone under some time ago (Monarch Computers), my warranty is null and void and I can get material outside of the company, such as at newegg. I'm planning on attempting an upgrade, and seeing how effective it becomes with it. As my brother is in need of a PC, but does not know anything about it and is not as demanding of his system as I am, if the upgrade fails to really provide enough oomph behind it I can give the PC to him (And he give his to his girlfriend, so this is far from a lose-lose situation), and if the upgrade does provide enough power I can stick with it instead of getting a new PC.

Despite the apparent powers of the PC, it's felt like it hasn't be as powerful as it should be, leaving me uncertain as to if it is the RAM, the CPU, the Motherboard, or the Video Card. My prediction is that it is the Video card that is the primary problem - the PC was delayed for a month because they thought it did not work, yet when the head technician returned from vacation he apparently 'got it to work', so I may have had the problem simply resurface.

So what I need help with is first figuring out which components I should upgrade, and then what I should upgrade them to or if you guys think I should put together a PC myself instead of trying to salvage this one.

That being said, I am having trouble getting a totally accurate list. I tried AIDA32, but it gave me some unknowns. So this will be as best of a list as I can provide, unless there is a better program that can give me a comprehensive review of my system, or I can find the old papers with the information.

Motherboard: ASUS M2N32 SLI Deluxe
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+
RAM: 2 Sticks of Corsair 512 MB RAM DDR2
Video Card: ATI Radeon X1900 XTX 512 MB (I believe it's one of those 'two cards in one' video cards. It lists Radeon X1900 Series and Radeon X1900 Series Secondary)

The Video Card is the one thing I really want to replace. But I think RAM can be too. I was told that someone has a similar issue that I do when they had an ASUS MB (The issue is basically stuttering of sound and video without a relation to framerate. The framerate could be high and smooth, yet it could still stutter), so I may want to upgrade the motherboard, which would also entail a CPU upgrade, and might then just be efficient to make a new system.

I'm fairly open to price. I want to see how high it can go in terms of upgrades to compare what an upgrade would be in relation to a brand new system.

As for specifics for what I'd hope for in the upgrade:

• Nvidia. I got burnt by ATI more than enough times to swear them off. They are a good company, but I really dislike my experiences with them. Unless Nvidia cards are undeniably horrible, I want to go with them.
• Power: Gaming isn't a part time hobby, it's a full time one [Sad to say ], so while not meaning I am willing to spend an insane amount of money into it, I am willing to put more into it than someone who casually games would be.
• Relative Ease of setting up: While I will need to learn how to do technical stuff for if I do put together my next PC (As I'd like to do), I would like it if these things do not require too much complications. I'd rather go with something in between efficiency and power if I had to choose, not one or the other.

So if I could ask of your help, what parts of my PC would you suggest I upgrade? What would you consider to be a viable upgrade, that would increase the power from the previous piece of hardware much more? Would you suggest I simply make a new PC, or try and upgrade this one?

Thanks for all the help.

[Freddie]

I can tell you now you have a powerful system there, it should be more then enough to plays all of today’s games at a decent frame rate.

Before you go buying anything download this, its big (nearly 600 megs but what it will do is benchmark your PC so you can compare it against similar systems to your own and it will give you an idea if you computer is actually under performing or not.

You might want to download the lastest drivers from the ATI website.

[King Edward I]

get upto 2gb ram and itll really feel faster

[Ahiga]

I just did 3DMark06, without being able to tweak it as I'd prefer to due to not buying it. 1260 x 1024 Resolution, No AA, ect.




As you can see, it seems like my system is not getting the same amount of power as it should be. Barnaby Jones, I'll look into those guides. Maybe it'll help me get more out of the system than it currently is providing.

I really don't mind upgrading this system, because I don't feel like I will be able to get out more from it. I should, but because the company I bought it from are shut down and I have no way of getting the support I need (For things such as BIOS updates for my motherboard - I checked the Asus Website, but they detail that you should only use their files if you bought it packaged by them, not as part of another's system). So I'd rather see if replacing existing components of the system with ones I can get support on and have more trust in (From Newegg) would help.

That being said, what do you think are my weak points given the 3Dmark review? A friend of mine seems to think it's memory of my Video Card, I forget what it was but I think that without overclocking she gets 1.2 Ghz on hers (Mine cites its memory overclocked to about halfway point in DDR as 1440). I do think it's the card that is an issue, and the RAM too.

I'm curious if I could replace either with something reasonable in price but better than the existing hardware (2 gigs of RAM to accompany or replace my current 1 GIG, and an NVIDIA video card). But would it be suggested that I replace the motherboard too? I'm reading that sometimes motherboards are the reason for stuttering or downgraded performance, but since Monarch is shut down, I can't get the files I need in relation to the producers of my Motherboard.

[Ahiga]

I've just installed the latest drivers. I'll try that program next.

Do you think overclocking may be hurting or helping? I use ATI tray tools, and my BIOS GPU is 500, BIOS MEM is 600. I tend to overclock the GPU to 650, and the MEM to 700 or so. Should I try not using tray tools and instead catalyst?

[mrmouth]

Your video card is always listed twice, primary and secondary.

Overclocking is simply squeezing more out of a component. The only way overclocking can hurt is if you fry your card.

Tray tools is a good program, but some have argued that overcloking through tray tools isn't very accurate. If you have one of the video cards that can overclock through catalyst, then do it through that.

Tray tools is nice because you can tweak your video card through tons of settings and really squeeze the most out of it aside from just overclocking.

I would recommend looking at this site to get a idea of what your video card is all about. How to properly uninstall/install new drivers and how to optimize your video card using tray tools.

http://www.tweakguides.com/ATICAT_1.html

I would also recommend looking at the rest of the site to further optimize your PC as a whole. I don't run a PC nearly as nice as yours, and a video card that I really have to upgrade very soon. However through tweaking certain things and preventing windows services that I don't use from loading into memory, I can come close to the performance friends of mine with bleeding edge PC's can achieve.

You can download the full guide here in pdf format:

http://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html

[mrmouth]

The PC you have now is real nice, and your 3d mark score isn't bad overall.

When they compare similar systems its kind of a misnomer in the sense that two people with the same two PC's might have very different scores due to a number of things. All you need to do is optimize/tweak your PC and maybe add some ram. Ram is so cheap you might as well, but its not going to be a night and day difference.

Your vram is fine and its a nice card overall. If you want to upgrade to a 8800 or the ATI DX10 card then do so. Its certainly going to help your score. However I find that most times peoples PC's just aren't optimized in regards to gaming performance and simply upgrading is kind of a desperate measure. Realistically that PC should last a few more years if your not looking to play DX10 games.

The link I provided, while it isn't fun to read, will speed up your machine. Optimize your card and XP/Vista and I guarantee you will see a difference.

[Ahiga]

The PC you have now is real nice, and your 3d mark score isn't bad overall.

When they compare similar systems its kind of a misnomer in the sense that two people with the same two PC's might have very different scores due to a number of things. All you need to do is optimize/tweak your PC and maybe add some ram. Ram is so cheap you might as well, but its not going to be a night and day difference.

Your vram is fine and its a nice card overall. If you want to upgrade to a 8800 or the ATI DX10 card then do so. Its certainly going to help your score. However I find that most times peoples PC's just aren't optimized in regards to gaming performance and simply upgrading is kind of a desperate measure. Realistically that PC should last a few more years if your not looking to play DX10 games.

The link I provided, while it isn't fun to read, will speed up your machine. Optimize your card and XP/Vista and I guarantee you will see a difference.

I'll give that a try. I want to stress that I am not trying to merely upgrade to keep in fashion or some stupid crap like that. I honestly want a better performance than I have been getting, and am frustrated in the fact that I cannot run this system the way I feel I should (Which is with all or almost all of the options turned to high). I think irregardless I do want to upgrade the video card, but I may be wrong in my assertions. It just seems peculiar that I have to run it with fans on near full blast (77%) to keep it from idling into the 60s, and have heard that this card is absurdly hot.

Plus I do plan on playing the DX10 games, and I'd like to play them with high settings, which is what I am aiming to do with this system. Does it still seem applicable for that attempt, or would this not be a decent system for running things on high (At least 2 or 4 AA, bloom in games that feature it, 1260x1024 resolution, maybe a step or two higher if I get a better monitor)

I'll give the site you read a try, hopefully I will be computer literate enough to understand what to do. Thanks for the assistance!

[mrmouth]

I'll give that a try. I want to stress that I am not trying to merely upgrade to keep in fashion or some stupid crap like that. I honestly want a better performance than I have been getting, and am frustrated in the fact that I cannot run this system the way I feel I should (Which is with all or almost all of the options turned to high). I think irregardless I do want to upgrade the video card, but I may be wrong in my assertions. It just seems peculiar that I have to run it with fans on near full blast (77%) to keep it from idling into the 60s, and have heard that this card is absurdly hot.

Some cards run hotter than others, that card just runs hot. The newer cards most likely run even hotter so be prepared. Proper cooling also plays a part. Everything from case choice to the rpm of case fans. For instance in my PC I have 2 120mm front and rear case fans. The front fan is rated at 2500rpm, while the rear is rated at 1600rpm. So I'm bringing in more cool air than I am exhausting even when factoring in the power supply fan, which after some toying around, seemed to work best in my case.

Plus I do plan on playing the DX10 games, and I'd like to play them with high settings, which is what I am aiming to do with this system. Does it still seem applicable for that attempt, or would this not be a decent system for running things on high (At least 2 or 4 AA, bloom in games that feature it, 1260x1024 resolution, maybe a step or two higher if I get a better monitor)

You have to understand that even a PC built with the best components money can buy just wont be able to max out games at high resolutions and still obtain good frames per second(fps). For my PC and more importantly, my monitor, I run all games at 1024x1280 and adjust games accordingly.

I know its not fun to cram your head with PC crap, but it would behoove you to read through at least the page on graphics cards in the link I gave you. It may be confusing but overall that guide is step by step and easy to follow. It just makes sense to learn about your PC and in this case it will make your gaming experience more enjoyable, so its a win-win.

look at this link too.

http://www.optimizingpc.com/optimize...sservices.html

[Ahiga]

Some cards run hotter than others, that card just runs hot. The newer cards most likely run even hotter so be prepared. Proper cooling also plays a part. Everything from case choice to the rpm of case fans. For instance in my PC I have 2 120mm front and rear case fans. The front fan is rated at 2500rpm, while the rear is rated at 1600rpm. So I'm bringing in more cool air than I am exhausting even when factoring in the power supply fan, which after some toying around, seemed to work best in my case.

That's true, and looking for a case where I can have a load of fans is a real point of notice in any new system. I think I have enough (I can't remember the intake/outtake), but I suppose the temperature is reasonable. I just heard that there were updated X1900 cards (one my friend recieved) that have some sort of superior cooling system, and are able to run without the fan droning on at full blast.

You have to understand that even a PC built with the best components money can buy just wont be able to max out games at high resolutions and still obtain good frames per second(fps). For my PC and more importantly, my monitor, I run all games at 1024x1280 and adjust games accordingly.

I know its not fun to cram your head with PC crap, but it would behoove you to read through at least the page on graphics cards in the link I gave you. It may be confusing but overall that guide is step by step and easy to follow. It just makes sense to learn about your PC and in this case it will make your gaming experience more enjoyable, so its a win-win.look at this link too. http://www.optimizingpc.com/optimize...sservices.html

I do understand that, but what do you mean by good? I remember ages ago with an Alienware I bought (overpriced, blah blah blah) that I could max out everything and run very smooth framerate and speed. I don't mind adjusting games a little, but I feel bothered that I bought this system to be top of the line (So I could justify the cost, and thereby ride out it's vitality for a few years), and yet it feels like its quite a few rungs below the top (Which means I have much less time to ride it out - if there's some hiccups now, that means there will be more later).

I will look into your tweaking stuff. I just did Omega drivers and that did a slight, but what I feel like is a still noticeable improvement (Placebo or not), and surely more of them will help out.

On this topic, at http://www.omegadrivers.net/mb_bios.php - You will need to click on ATI Radeon, then below that top bar click on "MB Bios".

They tell me to edit my BIOS along with the driver to get a noticable improvement. I'd like to do so, but when I went into my bios during bootup, I couldn't come across even one of the options they listed. Is there another way to edit the BIOS? Or do you recognize any of those options?

Edit: I think your link may feature something on tweaking the BIOS. So I may have spoken too soon.

[mrmouth]

but I suppose the temperature is reasonable. I just heard that there were updated X1900 cards (one my friend recieved) that have some sort of superior cooling system, and are able to run without the fan droning on at full blast.

The temps you posted are spot on, the card just runs at higher temps. Im sure your case is fine. You only need worry if its running hot.


With your PC you should be able to max out most games. However some games inherently, like company of heroes for instance, are just taxing, even on the newest most expensive machines. Doing simple things like preventing windows services from loading into memory when the machine starts will help though. It will leave more ram open for games to utilize.

For instance, open task manager, ctrl+shift+esc, how many running processes do you have when not running a program, i.e. a game or internet explorer/firefox? I have dropped mine down to 13, the minimum I need for my PC to run correctly. Ordinarily it might be over 20 easily, and all those extra services just eat up ram, some eat up a lot of ram.

That is just one of the major things you can do to improve performance.

They tell me to edit my BIOS along with the driver to get a noticable improvement. I'd like to do so, but when I went into my bios during bootup, I couldn't come across even one of the options they listed. Is there another way to edit the BIOS? Or do you recognize any of those options?

Some motherboards will support those BIOS options, some wont. If you don't have them there isn't much you can do.

You can use tray tools to do a lot of that though. Just follow the instructions

http://www.tweakguides.com/ATICAT_9.html

Again, I would go through the whole ATI catalyst guide, from installation to advanced tweaking, because catalyst control center installs things you just don't need, and that are easily disabled. Even the fact that catalyst control center starts each time you start your PC, when it doesn't need to. All these things just suck up needed ram. So just take the time and go through the whole guide.

[Freddie]

I don’t think your ram is running in dual channel mode. Checkout the second image he has posted.
I think you need to move one of your memory modules into another slot.