2007-08 NFL Discussion

[NaptownKnight]

Use to think the same thing.

When you have experience being ignorant, or being an idiot, its really easy to recognize. Those are the same flawed arguments I used a few years ago. Heck. Tim Duncan's lack of spectacular play is why at one point I thought he was over rated. Maybe he was just a really tall guy? And he was using his height advantage?

Thing is though, Duncan puts up stats. Brady's stats are above average at best.

[Poisoner]

Thing is though, Duncan puts up stats. Brady's stats are above average at best.

Stats only come into play during pissing contests.

[NaptownKnight]

To excited about the up coming sason, and I'm bored so wth. I'll perdict how many wins each team will get.

AFC East
Patriots: 13-3
Jets: 9-7
Bills: 5-11
Dolphins: 3-13

AFC South
Colts: 12-4
Jaguars: 10-6
Titans:5-11
Texans: 4-12

AFC North
Ravens: 11-5
Bengals: 10-6
Steelers: 6-9
Browns: 4-12

AFC West
Chargers: 12-4
Broncos: 9-7
Chiefs: 8-8
Raiders: 3-13

NFC East
Eagles: 11-5
Cowboys: 10-6
Giants: 8-8
Redskins: 6-10

NFC South
Saints: 12-4
Panthers: 11-5
Bucaneers: 7-9
Falcons: 2-14

NFC North
Bears: 10-6
Packers: 8-8
Vikings: 6-10
Lions: 4-12

NFC West
Seahawks: 12-4
49ers: 9-7
Rams: 6-10
Cardinals: 5-11

Yes, the number of wins probably don't add up, I just did this quickly. You should get the gist on how I think the season will shape up. I won't even try to perdict the playoffs, who knows what can happen there.

BTW Yes I have the Falcons winning two games. Who are they without Vick (Who I am assuming won't be present this season)?

Please post you're own 07-08 standings if you're bored like me .

[NaptownKnight]

Stats only come into play during pissing contests.

They tell a lot about a player, and how well he plays. Stats are the only true way to compare individual players, as wins just won't do. It takes a team to get a win, not one man.

[David Deas]

You can always tell who never played a team sport in their life at any competitive level.

[the_mango55]

You can always tell who never played a team sport in their life at any competitive level.

What the hell are you talking about? You can tell who has never played a team sport over the internet?

What is it with you and personal attacks? Does your argument not have enough to stand on it's own, so you have to attack people's knowledge of sports in general to make your own arguments seem stronger?

I see you didn't understand a damn thing I said. Thats always nice.

Probably because you're more of a casual fan than a football guru.

Wow.

But I guess sports is just kind of funny like that. A person can watch sports all day long and not know anything about it.

If thats the case, then the guy who said Deion Branch is a "great" receiver should be perma-banned.

I can't be too surprised. Those are the kinds of comments, I guess, I should expect to get from a Colt fan on a video gaming message board about the subject of football.

[David Deas]

Well if you don't know anything about sports, I think thats worth prefacing.

The stuff you're saying goes beyond your right to have an opinion. Its just plain not consistent with reality. I don't see whats so unfair about pointing that out.

Just a page or so ago, Deion Branch was a great wide receiver, even though statistically he's garbage. And now we have to hear you sit us down on your knee and explain all about how the only way to evaluate a player is through individual stats. And all because we switched from Tom Brady to Peyton Manning.

If you're an irrational fan-boy, then don't get mad at people for noticing. I'm not the only one who has said something here about your unwillingness to discuss this in a reasonable way.

The fact that you think individual stats is the only way to evaluate a player's worth means you have never played a team sport. Thats the first thing they teach you *not* to think in the first team meeting. Because it just isn't true.

Heck. The fact that I've hurt your feelings here already with just some typical sports mudsling talk means you've never played a sport. If I'm able to make you break down and cry about being insulted over this little nonsense, then you wouldn't last even 5 seconds on the field (or court) before they had to call your mother.

I understand that this is sports. So its about having a little fun slinging some mud. But there are limits to even the amount of nonsense tolerable in *this* subject too. You have got to make at least *some* effort to be consistent.

[the_mango55]

I'm not an irrational fan-boy of any pro team. If I could be accused of irrational fanboyism it would have been towards Rivers after he was drafted, but since he has proven me right it's just regular fanboyism, not the irrational kind.

After looking at NFL.com, Branch isn't a "great" wide receiver, but he is certainly a good one. I would love to have him as a 2nd receiver on the panthers.

Plus MVP of the Superbowl doesn't count for nothing. I see that listed in Brady's list of accomplishments all the time.

Plus, I'm not saying Brady is "garbage" like you seem to be doing for Branch. I think Brady is a top 5 QB in the league.

[David Deas]

No.

Tory Holt is a great WR. Marvin Harrison is a great WR. Steve Smith is a great WR.

Javon Walker is a good WR. TJ Hosh-Mo-Zode is a good WR. Joe Horn is a good WR. Donald Driver is a good WR. Muhsin Muhammad is a good WR.

Deion Branch is serviceable at best.

[Justinian]

Giants: 8-8

No way ... They might go 10-6 if we're lucky, if we have another .500 or sub-.500 year Coughlin will get fired so fast his wrinkled little head spins and we might trade Eli ...

[the_mango55]

Panthers: 11-5

I would love that.

I can't help but think that the Saints are going to fall off a bit, They will still be good, but not as good as they were last year perhaps.

Falcons: 2-14

Vick may end up not missing any of the season, and even if he does, Harrington isn't that bad, Warrick Dunn should be able to get them at least 3 wins, and if their defensive line stays healthy I think they could get 5.

[NaptownKnight]

No way ... They might go 10-6 if we're lucky, if we have another .500 or sub-.500 year Coughlin will get fired so fast his wrinkled little head spins and we might trade Eli ...

C'mon, it's been three years, where's Eli? Tiki Barber is gone, LaVar is gone, and the team had an underwhelming season last year. Unless Eli grows up in a hurry, or the Giants new backfield duo out perform their expectations, they are headed for .500. At least thats still good enough for the playoffs in the NFC.

I would love that.

I can't help but think that the Saints are going to fall off a bit, They will still be good, but not as good as they were last year perhaps.

I don't know, they were really just finding themselves last season. The Saints remind me of the Colts back in 03', the NFC Championship even bore an eary resemblance to the Colts-Pats one in 03'. I still think they have a lot more room to grow, and may not be able to take home a trophy this season, but maybe in a few years.

Vick may end up not missing any of the season, and even if he does, Harrington isn't that bad, Warrick Dunn should be able to get them at least 3 wins, and if their defensive line stays healthy I think they could get 5.

They've lost Kerney, lost Schaub (how dumb does that look now?), and seriously, Vick WILL miss games, whether it's a full season or 10 games. Remember when he was injured in the pre-season? That was a more talented Falcons team than this one, and they fell of real bad (can't remember their record). They have absolutely no receivers, Joe Horn is the only WR on that team deserving to be in the NFL, and he's at the end of his (very good) career. Joey Harrington may not be horrible, but he does stink, and theres no way teams can respect the pass (or Vicks legs, since he's not there) enough, so they will load the box everytime. Even very good backs can not gain yards with 11 men in the box.

Anyone else care to post their picks?

[David Deas]

Damn. Is it looking *that* bad for us?

[Justinian]

My Super Bowl XLII pick is Chargers-Saints. How sweet would that be? Not going to happen though, the Colts will probably rout another mediocre NFC team. I would name my picks for division champs but they're identical to yours, Naptown, except I might personally go up to East Rutherford and cut off Eli Manning's right arm if we go 8-8 again.

[Justinian]

Stats can be used to measure a player's skill, but a great player on a bad team will have horrible stats compared to an average player on a great team. Football is a team sport through and through, and all those passing yards and TDs rely on a good O-line and good receivers. If you throw a good quarterback on a team with a terrible O-line and no skilled receivers he's not going to have a great season no matter how good he is.

LaDainian Tomlinson wouldn't be breaking any records if he had, I don't know, the Raiders blocking for him. So stats don't really work as a judge of a player.

[NaptownKnight]

You can always tell who never played a team sport in their life at any competitive level.

Because I have played soccer for my elementary school, five years in a church league, and one in high school. I have played Basketball three years in a church league, and for about four years at the gym, at the local B-Ball court, and at the Y. I have never played football on an organized team but me, my friends, and others get together a lot to play.

[NaptownKnight]

Damn. Is it looking *that* bad for us?

ATL right? Well, you tell me how many wins you think they will get. They are in a pretty tough division, although in a weak conference, and have no QB. Maybe Harrington will succeed in ATL, I mean he never really did play behind a good line, but even then he has one receiver. He had more receiving talent in MIA last year.
EDIT Make that two, Crumpler is pretty good.

[David Deas]

I don't know. I'm always eager to hear other people's opinions of my team. I think I'm pretty honest, but I'm also a fan. That makes me sometimes more optimistic than I should be.

[Quacky]

Surely the browns/ lions/raiders have to improve on last season, I know its a lot of hype about draft guys that may be rubbish in the end but still they have to improve surely. Especially since I think chiefs will be useless, not 8-8 like you said.

[hungry_hungary]

Because I have played soccer for my elementary school, five years in a church league, and one in high school. I have played Basketball three years in a church league, and for about four years at the gym, at the local B-Ball court, and at the Y. I have never played football on an organized team but me, my friends, and others get together a lot to play.

Elementary, church, or a one year basketball experience shouldn't count at all
I've played 4 years of high school football and its one thing to practice once a week in a gym and another to practice everyday except for Sundays (5 hours in 90+ weather)

And street ball doesn't count at all... you have to understand the skill of the precision that goes into game planning... we watch 5 hours of film session every week and coaches (i think) watch film every second they have off their jobs

Please don't ever compare just fooling around to playing football in at least a high school level

The best evaluation of a QB is their leadership and Brady proved that he is a leader

Stats don't say much Championships do... remember all those Steelers that have went to the Hall of Fame? their stats were par or lower than the Cowboys but the 70's Steelers out number the 70's Cowboys 2 to 1

Colts don't have the consistent defense that you see in every dynasty team (something that the Pats have)
They were the worst in rush defense in the regular season but they can stop LJ in the playoffs? this won't happen again for a while
They were the first Superbowl winning team that couldn't stop the run and they will be the last


Brady has worked with much more wide receivers than Manning... do you know how much time and work it takes them to get the routs down right?
Football isn't like Madden where you can throw perfectly with a push of a button