Defending Cities from Sieges

[Marto]

The AI invariably uses Catapults or Trebuchet to attack your walls after a few years into the game, so how do you effectively stop them from smashing their way in?

Usually you can't get cavalry out as far as their siege weapons to destroy them as they're surrounded by the rest of their large army who counter first.

Even with rams and towers it's really random that you manage to burn them down before they reach you - even with hundreds of archers.

Seems inevitable that their assault on your walls will work - at least until your counter attack anyway. (I accept you usually win at this point though)

Any hints or tips, or what units you have for garrisons at borders?

Cheers

[kelvintyk]

I build forts at choke points to prevent anyone from without military access from marching into my lands.

[jsgx3]

You pretty much summed it up, I try to keep a decent amount of cavalry in my cities/castles, especially the ones near the borders so can sortie and have a good chance to destroy the siege weapons. You may be sacrificing the cavalry, but it could buy the win. Also, be careful about getting back into the gates as the gate closing AI is fickle at times and you might have a trooper or two still outside as the enemy chases your retreating men/charges the gates which leaves them open. I would like direct control of the gates, that would be nice, and if they need to be closed with a few men outside so be it, increase my dread if you must...

[DrBeast]

A few trebuchets of your own might also help. Good luck placing them, however!
*DrBeast practices self-restrain and won't throw a hissy-fit at CA for not fixing this!

[billerator]

Well, in the situation you describe I always do one of the following: -

1. If I have anything capable of sallying I send it out to take out the Ai artillery, (unless the enemy army is so large they would have no chance), then withdraw ASAP. Cavalry is best for this task.

2. If I cannot sally (or the Ai army is too powerful), I withdraw practically my whole army from the walls to the town centre. You loose the benefit of the towers and height advantage on walls for archers, but at the end of the day all the Ai needs to hole your walls/take out your towers is 2-3 artillery units.

3. There is a third way (which isn't that effective really). I send just outside my gates a couple of ballista which are quite apt for taking out enemy artillery. once the Ai assaults the walls I make them scarper

[Marto]

JSGX3

"I would like direct control of the gates, that would be nice, and if they need to be closed with a few men outside so be it, increase my dread if you must..."

Brilliant. You're getting some rep for that.

Dr. Beast

Yes that was a point I left out. It's a nightmare trying to place siege weapons inside to fire out...

[Snipafist]

At some point or another, one must admit when their walls are doomed. At this point, draw your men back into the city streets and await the enemy troops. Trying to destroy the siege weapons with a frontal assault will usually result in getting a solid kick to the nether regions.

[Marto]

Hence the comment:

"...you can't get cavalry out as far as their siege weapons to destroy them as they're surrounded by the rest of their large army who counter first..."

[Mountain_Commander]

If its early on in the game I may try to sally out and take out their seige with calvary. Sometimes that isnt practrical and I dont like sacrificing an entire unit unless I know the job will get done. Usually my cities/castles mainstay are archers for the walls. Then I use spearmen and swordsmen in the wall breaches. I keep a Caraccio standard behind them. I'll put them in schlitrom formation in the breach with dismounted knights behind them, and calvary behind them. Against a faction like the Danes you need some strong melee units for the breaches because they like to rush Norse Axemen and those guys are devastating mixed with calvary. Early on in the campaign its probably much different but along the same basic principles. Ive been late in my campaign for awhile now so I have upgraded units and its all routine. I always have enough defense on a border territory to fend off a full stack. So far the Moors are the only ones who are really dangerous with seige in this campaign.

Also if an enemy spy opens your gates what I do is que all my units to where I want them and start the battle. The enemy will split up and try and flank on both sides and do a frontal assault. By the time the main frontal assault is almost over you're ready to retreat to the town square if you need too. Im Milan at the moment and the crossbowmen probably make defending a bit easier as well as the carracio standard. Plus the Genoese crossbowmen have good defense and good melee so if I absolutely have to I can take them off the wall and put them into the breach. All my cities already have cannon towers.

Just try and close those wall breaches with men and force them through the smallest openings. If they cant get around your men they will have to suffer from a head on assault. Ive beaten two full stacks back several times. But I have been on this Milan campaign for awhile and frankly I forget how to play with other factions. My economy doesnt make huge numbers because I keep a lot of miltary in my cities. Usually no less than half full at all times, and possibly full if its been a point of contention with an enemy. I did get devastated by a Crusade called against Rome though. And if I were to choose auto resolve no doubt I would lose the defending battle.

Plus ive been lucky to fend off the Danes. They're relentless in my campaign. Except my general is a night fighter and I can cut off their reinforcement stacks surrounding Antwerp constantly. They just have a assembly line of men running to Antwerp, and the city next to it are constantly being seiged. Having that night fighter trait has saved the city several times because if there are several armies surrounding your city you can sally out at night and cut off the reinforcement armies. Devstate the smallest one and send it packing. Its crucial if they're wave attacking you, and it allows you to knock off the seiger so you can atleast retrain three units before the next turn.

[Mythre]

Later in game if your faction has them... mortars... if not... you can always go out the gate with ballista or some other type of art... seems to work ok...

[Marto]

Cheers for the advice Mountain_Commander. Useful info there (+rep)

[UhOhIt'sAnArrow]

I use Trebuchets to counter attack them. Even if it doesn't work, making them run into rotting cow carcasses isn't bad either

[Mountain_Commander]

Your welcome. Maybe there's something in there that can help.

[pat the magnificent]

wheel your own artillery outside. you often lose them pretty quickly but, its worth it if you can take out their siege weapons.

also suicide heavy cav attacks sometimes work.

[gr33kp1mp777]

Byzantine Guard archers can withstand any siege!

[mightyfenrir]

The AI invariably uses Catapults or Trebuchet to attack your walls after a few years into the game, so how do you effectively stop them from smashing their way in?

Usually you can't get cavalry out as far as their siege weapons to destroy them as they're surrounded by the rest of their large army who counter first.

Even with rams and towers it's really random that you manage to burn them down before they reach you - even with hundreds of archers.

Seems inevitable that their assault on your walls will work - at least until your counter attack anyway. (I accept you usually win at this point though)

Any hints or tips, or what units you have for garrisons at borders?

Cheers

1) Light cavalry that's cheap (border horses, scouts) make excellent "go attack the artillery units" because usually the enemy has to pull artillery forward at least a tiny bit. When they don't have artillery or you kill their unit off, resort to #2
2) Aim all archers at the unit carrying the ram without fire. In certain weather, and it may just be my observation which has no rot in the game, the siege weapons will never catch on fire. To combat this you place your archers along the walls or behind them in places that allow them to fire on the ram all the way into the gate. Three units of peasant archers firing from above and to the sides of the ram can, from maximum range into the gate, take out 70 of 75 men and you need six to man a ram, nine for a ladder.... I don't know the number for a tower.
3) Provided that this does not work I recommend the following positioning of units as best as you are able around any holes in your walls. Obviously this settlement was attacked without artillery, but if it were I'd set it up with one unit to each hole and leftover units would be placed for containment:


It looks like a hawk with no head, or a scorpion with no tail.

wheel your own artillery outside. you often lose them pretty quickly but, its worth it if you can take out their siege weapons.

also suicide heavy cav attacks sometimes work.

I found plugging the hole with men and then wheeling your artillery into the holes works better 'cause you don't lose them very quickly and they fire on infantry as well as they come in. Ideally I like having a trebuchet in the city near the front lines.

[Captain Crimson]

^The typical strategy that kills the AI. siege battles aren't fun due to awful AI in vanilla.

Anyhoo, light cavalry are very good at killing artillery.

CC

[mightyfenrir]

^The typical strategy that kills the AI. siege battles aren't fun due to awful AI in vanilla.

Anyhoo, light cavalry are very good at killing artillery.

CC

Apparently it works in most of the mods too 'cause I've used it in LTC and Stainless Steel haha... stupid AI. That battle up there was on hard and I didn't lose very many men at all actually. I used that same arrow strategy against the Mongols on a larger city and when they didn't have any angle on the ram I sent them after the general. Two Trebizond archer units in that battle, along with the towers, accounted for 89% of the kills. They had something like 175 kills a piece.

[Marto]

"....1) Light cavalry that's cheap (border horses, scouts) make excellent "go attack the artillery units" because usually the enemy has to pull artillery forward at least a tiny bit. When they don't have artillery or you kill their unit off, resort to #2
2) Aim all archers at the unit carrying the ram without fire. In certain weather, and it may just be my observation which has no rot in the game, the siege weapons will never catch on fire. To combat this you place your archers along the walls or behind them in places that allow them to fire on the ram all the way into the gate. Three units of peasant archers firing from above and to the sides of the ram can, from maximum range into the gate, take out 70 of 75 men and you need six to man a ram, nine for a ladder.... I don't know the number for a tower.
3) Provided that this does not work I recommend the following positioning of units as best as you are able around any holes in your walls. Obviously this settlement was attacked without artillery, but if it were I'd set it up with one unit to each hole and leftover units would be placed for containment:...."


Thanks for the above info (+rep). I didn't know about that archer/ ram thing. I am usually English so I'd have thought Longbows and Yeomans should be able to do that job pretty well if any archer unit can.

Also, I never really find a use for light cavalry as I usually want multi-purpose medium/ hevay cav in my armies, so now I'll try to use light cav to kill enemy artillery - and won't weep their inevitable loss....

Your 3) is usually what I resort to anyway as they always get about 2/3 holes in my walls (including gate) so it's a slug-fest to see who wins at the walls. And I usually nervously win.

Cheers

[Kylan271]

With Sieges if enough troops you can sally forth and cut down their armies by wheeling out say ballista from the sides and archers from behind. The AI in mine is dumb so they don't react except missile and artillery troops if around. I have butchered whole units just using ballista to pick of archers then side fire their infantry. Ballista impale several units that way. Archers attack their unshielded rear adding to casualties..Longbows I use(England). And you can sally forth 1/turn so even if you run out of ammo and they still there exiting still leaves you in control. *_*