What's the composition of a decent army?

[sumaznguy]

I have only been playing as Romans(still on first campaign). I mostly build the economic buildings so I barely have any barracks. So I only currently have access to the italian units and hastiti/princepes/triarri/velites(sp?).

Most of my armies consist of princepes and triarri with some velites and mercs for support.

It would seem that I should try to get archers since they have much better range.

My units usually run out ammo within the first few minutes of the battle(as in minutes after the enemy forces and mine clash). So I have lots of melee brawls. But I noticed that melee units kill wicked slow(compared to the ranged attacks) and even if I attack enemy forces on mulitple sides(like their front and their rear) they barely take any casualities. The enemy only start dying quick when they are routing and by then they have done quite a number on my men.


I have only fought against Carthage and Greeks. They use huge amounts of spearmen/hoplite troops.(like 75% at least) Are the other factions like this as well? If I incorporate more ranged units, will that put me in a disadvantage(considering how much melee units I constantly face) Siege battles become a nightmare if the enemy has hundreds of infantry garrisoned.



ALSO, another issue. I have been using mercs as fodder to soak up casualties before my roman troops sweep in to mop up enemy forces. As a result, my mercs gain most of the experience(but have low numbers since I use them as meatshields). Does experience have much impact on battles? Is it better for me to suck it up and use my best troops and suffer the casualties but rake in more experience?

[Herpes]

Cavalry is the key. Ranged units will be advantageous against the barbarian tribes but will have limited effect on armored troops.

Try Alexanders hammer and anvil tactic: let you infantry bog down the enemy line, while you take your cavalry in a single mass around the enemy line and smash into the rear.

[boofhead]

Charge them with Cav - a bit repetitive I know considering AI

[sumaznguy]

I have tried to use cavalry, but what ends up happening is that the enemy single cavalry unit somehow slaughters my several cavalry units. Maybe I will have better luck against other opponents, but carthage and greek have so many spearmen/hoplites that i can barely hit any of them with cavalry without getting slaughtered. Like I try to hit their archers then hordes of spearmen chase after my calvary before I can kill off the archers.

[Wien1938]

1. You say that the single enemy cavalry unit breaks all of yours, then it is likely to be the enemy general. The best method for this is to tempt him to charge one of your cavalry units (counter-charge of course) but make sure that a unit of your infantry are following up and have them force their way into the melee.
2. Hold your cavalry back! Let the clash of heavy infantry happen. Then use the cavalry with your velites to flank the enemy.
3. DO NOT SACRIFICE YOUR VELITES! Hold them back, do not waste your ammo on their infantry, bring them around behind the enemy lines and shoot into their rear.
4. Have AT LEAST two lines of heavy infantry, draw the enemy into charging your first line and either use the second to support the first, or send them to roll up the line before your first line breaks.

-----HHHHHH----
-----PPPPPP-----
-----T-T--T-----
---Cv------Cv,GCv-
---V----------Ve--

Above all unless you have the manpower for a classical Roman slogging match, always aim to flank the enemy for a sure rout and pursuit.
Tactical principles.
1. Get the enemy heavy infantry to charge yours - do not aim to match the line, this will not matter.
2. Use your second line to outflank the enemy as they pile in on your first line.
3. Use your cavalry and light infantry to break the enemy's horse.
4. Shoot missiles into the rear of the toughest enemy foot and have the cavalry charge the weaker units.
5. When the enemy rout, pursue with EVERYTHING. Units that are destroyed cannot be filled out with cheap replacements and that army will not worry you for some time.
Richard

[sumaznguy]

WOW. I just realized I have been doing field battles all wrong. Normally I just wall myself with spearmen and heavy infantry and let the enemy charge into my men and get pelted by skirmishers.

I just tried charging into the enemy and they all routed instantly lol. (My archers were already hitting them, and I just waited until my skirmishers started firing then I charged with my spearmen and heavy infantry.) Their general was dead real quick which probably helped with the routing process.

I didn't even have to use up all my ammo too.

[Maximus Lazero]

My general strategy is to let the enemy charge me, but with Western European civilizations (barbarians, Romans), it is best to counter-charge as well.
Remember:
1. Roman units are OFFENSIVE beats, no defensive. Even if you are on the defensive, charge your Romans against the enemy as they charge.
2. Roman cavalry is among the weakest in the game. Use them in a single mass (or working together) to cut down casualties. Weak as Roman cavalry is, however, it is still cavalry, and when charging the rear of an engaged enemy, will quickly route your enemies.
3. Javelins do more damage because they are armor piercing. Aside from using them on heavy infantry, a great way to see how they work vs. bows and arrows is to set up a custom map with a velites vs. elephants and archers vs. elephants. You will find that skirmishers in general destroy elephants, sometimes in a single volley. Archers take a much longer time. Skirmishers kill elephants; archers drive them insane.
4. As has been said, use the hammer/anvil. Engage the enemy with your main infantry, and flank them with your cavalry and velites (the velites, aside from showering their rear with missiles, can also chase down fleeing heavy infantry with ease). If you can flank the enemy with some of your main infantry, use them instead of cavalry. Infantry is easy to replace; not always so with cavalry.


Oh, and my lineup for the Romans is thus:
VV
HHHH -Hastati
TT TT -Triarii between the first/second line, guarding flanks
PPPP
CCCC-Cavalry on either flank

The general and another cavalry unit can go in the center behind your lines for use elsewhere, or they can ride with the rest of your cavalry.
Hastati go first, with the Triarii supporting the flanks and, if possible, flanking the enemy themselves.
Principes move in to reinforce the hastati if needed, or they can also flank the enemy.
Velites go in front of the hastati to harass incoming enemies, then retreat behind the main lines. They can also be used for flanking and/or chasing down fleeing infantry (since they will be the most rested of your troops by the endgame of the battle.


P.S. You asked if there were other factions that mostly used spearmen...well, basically all of the Eastern Mediterranean uses phalanx spearmen. The Hellenistic/spearmen factions are:
-Illyria and...I think Thrace mix Greek hoplites with typical barbarian troops.
-Macedonia, the Seleucid Empire, the Ptolemaic Empire, Pontus, Bactria...possibly Armenia (again, can't remember), and partially Carthage use Macedonian-style pikemen.
-Greek hopilte-style phanges are found mixed in with all the spear-based factions.

[sumaznguy]

I am supposed to use Hastiti? I only looked at the stats and the Principes have better stats so I just use Principe instead of Hastiti.

I just did a battle with enemy phanlanx. They slaughtered my spearmen with their uber range. =(. I am guessing for the factions that have phangalites I want those units in the front with skirmishers/archers in the back.

About the Javelins, so its best to have a little of each unit? Some spearmen/phangalite(if it applies) and heavy infantry as meat shields. Skirmishers to destroy heavily armored foes, and archers to destroy lightly armored foes. Then calvary for flanking, killing enemy skirmishers/archers and routers.


And two of you mention hastiti and principe in the front of the line. But wouldn't having triari in the front be better? since they have better stats, and have longer range due to the spears.

[Brusilov]

First of all there is no perfect army composition. You may well have a base of an army (for Romans that is your heavy infantry) but you will need to have the ability to modify it’s composition when fighting different styles of armies. The ones you have fought so far, Carthage and Greeks are slightly different in that Carthage may have used Elephants.

If you venture northwards you will meet the 'barbarian hordes' that is Gaul and Germany. These are different to the phalanx based armies you have already met - there will be large warband units with some cavalry and missile units.

If you move eastwards into Asia Minor you will probably encounter armies that are missile heavy - a heavy infantry based army will be slowly surrounded and destroyed. You will need to increase the number of missile units and include some light cavalry.

If you get to fight the Nubians in North Africa you will also fight similar armies – many light missile units. Again you will have to increase the missile and light cavalry component of your army.

One tactic is the 'pin and hold' tactic which you pin the opponent’s main army against your force and combine it with a flanking force usually will win a battle for you. It’s the previously mentioned ‘hammer and anvil tactic.

By setting your 'hold' troops on 'guard mode' they will just parry the opponents - this won't tire them out and will also mean they have light casualties.

You could use the Hastati as the flanking force. They are cheaper than Principes. Although they may be shown as ‘light’ they aren’t. It is the work of the flanking force to break the opponents army and then have sufficient cavalry to chase the routing forces down. This is usually done by attacking the units from the rear. If you have cavalry use them to charge the units, break away and then charge again. Don’t leave your cavalry in the battle for any length of time. You can also include any javelin armed troops in th flanking force – again throwing the javelins against the unprotected back of the units for maximum damage.

The flanking force can consist of just cavalry but make sure you have control of them so they aren’t attacked while standing in one place. Having a mixture of troops in the flanking force is the best way to go as the cavalry can always rest behind any infanty.

The Triarri are spear troops - I tend to put these on the flanks where I expect to be attacked by cavalry. If I have these units in my army there are only every about two of them - I like the ability of the Principes and Hastati to throw Pila!

Missile troops are necessary for a decent mix of units. There is nothing worse than having none and to be attacked at range by the AI's slingers. As Romans you won't have access to archers until after the Marian Reforms - you will be able to train Syrian Archers but only in Syria! The Funditores are excellent slingers which you can recruit pre-marian. You can also train slingers in other areas (Gallic, Illyrian or Macedonian) or pick them up as mercenaries (Balearic from Palma, Rhodian from Rhodes).

The effectiveness of all troops improves with the experience they gain. The Missile Attack rating will increase by 1 for every chevron that the unit gains (bronze, silver and then gold). For instance a bog standard Funditore will have a Missile Attack rating of 3 but this will increase to 12 with a three gold chevron unit).

Although it’s not very nice I use the missile troops to take out the AI general or cavalry first (when they enter the range). Slingers or mercenary archers can be used for this. Also, if you can recruit them scorpions or ballistas also can be used.

If you expect to meet elephants (Carthage and Seleucid) I usually have a unit or two of javelin troops. These will usually be light troops so you can move them from flank to flank – wherever the elephants are. The other tactic against elephants is to use flame arrows. You can always hire Cretian Archers on the Greek mainland, Create or even in Asia Minor.

As others have already mentioned the Roman Cavalry (Equites) are not as effective as some of the other cavalry units. If you take some Gaul settlements to the North you will eventually be able to train Gallic Noble Cavalry and Gallic Light Cavalry (the advantage of these units is that you can still recruit them after the Marian Reforms). From the Carthage settlement in North Africa you can train Libyan Cavalry and from the Greek settlement of Larissa you can train Thessalian Cavalry.

[sumaznguy]

Well I did say decent army in the thread title. But I enjoyed reading your post. lots of information.


And I recently tried using cavarly as Pontus (well I had lots of spare generals around) for flanking and chasing down missile units. It worked so well. Unfortunately I lost that battle because my regular units routed rather quickly(basic spearmen and javeliners). But I was able to defeat the enemy general unit, enemy missile units, enemy cavalry units. The enemy still had elephant and phanlanx troops so I gave up at that point.


Pontus gameplay is very different from Roman gameplay. At the very beginning massive selucid empires invading me with mass phanlanx and elephants. And most of my better elite units are wicked expensive(at least compared to the Roman units).


I can build chariots as them, how do I effectivily use them? They are basically super strong cavalry?

[morteduzionism]

You'd have to define "decent" for yourself. Personally I play with a historically accurate(according to Quintus) legion. It has worked pretty good for me, it is good for both defense and offense.

Most of my armies consist of princepes and triarri with some velites and mercs for support.

A historically accurate Legion would be:
Velites/Slingers x 2 Italian Skirmishers x 2
Hastati x 2 Italian Pedites/Swordsman x 2
Principe x 2-I use 3 Italian Hoplites/Spearmen* x 2
Triarii x 1
Equites x 1 Italian Cavalry x 1**
General Tribune(20-30yo family member)

Deployed like so:
Velites____ Velites____
Hastati____Hastati____It. Pedi____It. Pedi____
It. Spearmen____Principe____Principe____Principe____It. Spearmen
It. Skirm____ Triarii____ It. Skirm____
Cavalry/Tribune_____ General____ Cavalry_____

*I use the Spearmen to protect skirmishers on the flanks. Usually, if on the defensive, the enemy will try to attack those skirmishers and the Italians high defensive capabilities make them perfect for the job. They're not good at attacking so I don't use them for that. You could also switch them for Illyrian Spearmen, Gallic Warband, etc(more soldiers per/unit providing more frontage)

**Cavalry is expensive. If you use your Tribune wisely you can go without the Italians or recruit some Gallic Noble(mercs). The important thing is to conserve and use cavalry wisely. IMO: General/Tribune-kill generals and fight other cavalry; Gallic Noble/Sarmatian Heavy Cav-charge enemy lines, fight some Lt. Cavalry; Equites/Gallic Lt. Cavalry-chase routers

It would seem that I should try to get archers since they have much better range.

Slingers are o.k. too, and they're available in the early game.

even if I attack enemy forces on mulitple sides(like their front and their rear) they barely take any casualities. The enemy only start dying quick when they are routing and by then they have done quite a number on my men.

This is a question of tactics. You really should try to kill the enemy general as early in the battle as possible. This will cause the enemy to rout faster.

In addition to killing the general you have to pick the best terrain on the battle map.

If on the defensive: get the high ground! If you have long range missile units(archers/slingers) you will decimate the enemy before they can get to you. Even without archers/slingers, forcing an enemy to tire itself out before engaging in melee will always be advantageous to you.

When attacking remember heavy infantry(Principe/Triarii) are slower than light infantry(Hastati/Swordsman/etc). My tactic is to lock up their front line with my light infantry* and then flank their line, with my Tribune attacking their general(sometimes my general goes to). If using It. Cavalry or some other heavy cavalry( i.e. Gallic Noble) use them to charge into the rear of the enemy. Equites should only be used to chase routers. Remember if it is a good enemy general their line will not rout even after a cavalry charge in their rear so you must kill the general as soon as possible!

*I stopped using Principes to flank the enemy because of the reasons you mentioned: too much damage caused in the interim. What I do now, which works much better, is to engage their first line with Hastati when they become "winded" I drag/click them back a few steps and attack with the Principes. By the time the Principes are "winded" the Hastati are "fresh" and I reengage them. Hopefully, also by the time the Principe are "winded" the enemy general has been killed and their army is wavering, a single cavalry charge will begin the rout. Or instead of using Hastati again there is still the Triarii. I suffer very few casualties this way.

For the most part I try to keep my general out of combat. He stays behind the lines. If/when the enemy begins to break through or to turn a flank he can immediately respond(since generals can fight in melee) to the scene and his presence will boost morale, etc.

I have only fought against Carthage and Greeks. They use huge amounts of spearmen/hoplite troops.(like 75% at least) Are the other factions like this as well?

Pretty much, yes. Remember most of the peoples in the game were influenced by Hellenic methods of warfare.

If I incorporate more ranged units, will that put me in a disadvantage(considering how much melee units I constantly face) Siege battles become a nightmare if the enemy has hundreds of infantry garrisoned.

That probably depends on how you use them.

ALSO, another issue. I have been using mercs as fodder to soak up casualties before my roman troops sweep in to mop up enemy forces. As a result, my mercs gain most of the experience(but have low numbers since I use them as meatshields). Does experience have much impact on battles?

For each chevron of experience you get a point added to: attack and defensive skill(maybe armor too, but I'm not as sure of that). Also more experienced troops take more time to rout.

Is it better for me to suck it up and use my best troops and suffer the casualties but rake in more experience?

Using better tactics will prevent alot of the casualties.

[Praetori]

Many good things have allready been said though I can't help myself (being the forum warrior I am.

When I play as Rome I usually go for a core of triari (5 units), Principes x4, Hastati x4, Equites x2 and skirmishers and mercenaries for the rest (depending on the opposition). I use italian infantry (when I can't afford Principes and/or Hastati).
I then (depending on the opposition though) deploy them as follows.

--------Skirmishers x2--------
--Prin,Prin,Tri,Tri,Tri,Prin,Prin--
Tri,Hast,Hast----Hast,Hast,Tri
Merc--------Gen---------Merc
Cav/Cav------------or----Cav


I form a battleline according to the enemys width (but the same internal composition) and then pin the enemy with my heavy hitters in the center (using guard stance and fire at will on the Principes). My skirmishers tries to lure enemy Cav to one side and into the waiting flank Triari. As the battle rages on (at wich time I usually see where the enemy is weak or where I need to reinforce I move units accordingly). The free Merc and Hastati untis can then swing around a flank (if I'm lucky both of them) and deliver their Pilum? in the side and rear of the enemy flank before charging (while the cav holds off hostile skirmishers and the Triari defends from enemy Cav). Once the enemy flank starts collapsing I move on (letting the cav and skirmishers hunt the fleeing enemy). I then use my general and hastati to attack the enemy center (or what's left of their flank). I usually try to charge at an angle with my general (cus he's on the left side of the unit) to keep him out of harms way.

Depending on the enemy forces this tactic may vary (it works best against slow heavy armies like the greeks and macedons and not at all against horse-nations) but it rarely fails me even against a much larger force. Best trick is to lure the enemy into attacking the stationary triari head on (my best trick to beat a phalanx line) and let the hastati get the glory stabbing the enemy in the back (they gain alot of nice experience too).

[delra]

As Romans I usually use 6x Principes to hold the line with 2-3x triarii behind them to provide support with heavy cavalry charges (60 bodyguards of makedonian or carthaginian king charging can push principes a mile back).

On flanks (withdrawed a bit to lure AI to hit flank of my principes) i have samnites or hastati ready to push forward and flank his line. Their swords work well on pretty much everything. 2 or 3 on each flank depending on my cash.

Behind this i have any mercenary cavalry that is available in the area or equites (2 or 3 units, i like the thracian cav (thraikioi prodromoi) as it's fast and heavy at the same time) to do the hammer work. If i'm not in Greece or Asia minor but in Gaul, I take gallic nobles from my Massilia type IV top tier barracks (they are called Brihentin).

I rarely take many archers or skirmishers, and if I do i take just enough to help principes to hold the main line (2-4, armored ones, thraikoi peltastai are my personal preference).

If i have them, i try to place them behind the main principes line and not fire at will. I instruct them to fire when the enemy is manouvering in front of my line or running away to reform, it hurts more this way. They are also strong enough to fill any gaps in my line where necessary and this is their main function most of the time...

This formation is flexible, easy to turn around and each part of it can be easily supported with spare units from the centre if necessary.

When I play as Greeks i just take the heaviest phalanx available 2x or 3x instead of principes to hold the main line and use hoplites and swords to defend its flanks.

Maybe it's not very sophisticated but it works and this is all i really need. :-)

I tried putting cavalry on flanks but it always makes AI charge them with their own cavalry and i rather prefer them to smash the front or one of my infantry flanks.

I also tried putting triarii up front but this makes them lose too many men due to AI charging them, i'd rather see principes take most of the casualties and triarii join the action when the enemy is already engaged.

[Incomitatus]

Well, I've gone into the EDU and reduced the number of men in a unit of triarii to almost half the original number. I've done this because I take 1 hastati, 1 principe, and 1 triarii to be the heavy infantry component of 1 Polybian legion, but only 1/5 of the total number of troops should be triarii.

Bearing that in mind...

I personally feel that a Roman army, built on historically accurate lines, represents the best balance between offensive and defensive capability across most terrain and climates and against most enemies. At the start of the game a Consular army (that is to say, a full or near full stack army) would consist of 1 general, 1 tribune (family member), 1 Equites, 2 Velites (or 1 Velites and 1 Funditores), 2 Hastati, 2 Principes, and 2 Triarii (after editing their number in half, otherwise 1 Triarii). That is the Roman part of the army, the equivalent of two legions. The other half of the army would consist of 1 Italian Cavalry (hire it as a mercenary to get 2 exp), 2 Italian Skirmishers, 2 Italian Swordsmen, and 2 Italian Spearmen. Now you have two or three slots left open to fill... I like to use either more family members to beef up my cavalry force, or I add more Italian Spearmen/Samnite Mercs (I love Samnite mercs....)

Briefly, each unit in detail, and how/why it works:

The Cavalry


A few notes the role of cavalry in Roman armies in general - Roman armies aren't known for their strength in cavalry. The terrain you will be fighting on most of the time is not cavalry friendly due to hills and woods. Your cavalry is at the bottom of the barrel in terms of quality. Carthage and Macedon in particular have much better cavalry and if you try to match their tactics horseman for horseman, you'll lose. That doesn't mean you should neglect your cavalry forces. Roman cavalry can be effective when it is used in an organised and disciplined manner supporting and being supported by your infantry.

Most factions are deficient in good hard-hitting heavy infantry. They depend upon their cavalry to wheel around the enemy flank and deliver the deathblow to the enemy rear, because their infantry lacks the power to quickly attain dominance in a frontal assault. Because of that, they have powerful cavalry ... the cavalry is one indispensible part of their forces.

The Romans on the other hand, have the best heavy infantry in the world, bar-none. There are a few units that are better, but not very many and none that are as cost-effective and which can be fielded in decent numbers. Roman armies therefore have nothing to fear from enemy infantry most of the time. The thing that Roman armies have to be concerned about is getting flanked by that strong enemy cavalry and also ranged attack that Roman forces can not counter with long range troops of their own.

Your cavalry is the answer to missile troops and is half the answer to enemy cavalry.

General/Family members - Pretty straightforward. Your commanding general should stay behind your lines, ready to jump into any crisis point. In most battles he should have nothing to do other than encouraging the troops. Think of him as an insurance policy, you don't want to have to need him, but if you do need him you want him to be there full-strength and fresh as a daisy.

Your other family members who may be with the army should work in conjunction with your other cavalry. There are lots of ways they can do this but my personal favorite is to send them along behind my equites or italian cavalry when it's moving out to go charge enemy cavalry or skirmishers. I use the family members to intercept anything that is trying to charge my other cavalry from the flanks, then. I try not to use family members to chase routers, because they are heavy cavalry and tire out too quickly. After all the enemy cavalry and skirmishers are killed/routed/being chased by the other cavalry, and after all the enemy infantry is engaged, you can use your family members to charge into the rear of tired and wavering enemy units.

The one thing that has been suggested here that I try to avoid is using family members to attack and kill the enemy general(s) cavalry. There are several reasons for this... the first and foremost is that it really really ruins one's day to lose a family member. All of his cavalry is gone then forever. Family member on family member melees are usually pretty even in the number of horsemen on each side, so at best you have 50/50 odds of your family member dying first. And sometimes the enemy family member cavalry doesn't break when the family member dies, and you can still lose your family member as the fight continues. Then consider that almost every faction has stronger family member cavalry than Rome does... I don't like those odds, particularly since I use Marcus Camillus' 4tpy Mod with the Roman Leadership System (nothing can ruin your game like losing a Legate (I tend to use a Legate as 2nd in command of a Consular army rather than a lowly Tribune) with 19 years military experience trying to kill some pimply-faced no-command star 16 year old Carthaginian punk.)

Equites - These guys get a bad rap. Sure the Italian cavalry have better stats, and you can hire them with two experience in central Italy, and they cost less... BUT the Equites have higher moral and more discipline, which means they won't cut and run if things start to go pear shaped. This makes them better at chasing off light skirmishers, where they can find themselves behind enemy lines where anything can happen. But, and this is key, unless your Equites have weapon and armor upgrades and several chevrons of experience, you should not use them to charge melee infantry even in the rear, and you should think twice before using them against melee cavalry, even light cavalry. I'm not saying don't do it, just think about whether it is worth it. Your Equites are better utilised as your dedicated pest killers. You know what I mean... that unit of Rhodian slingers that's over there throwing rocks at you... or that unit of Cretan archers that is giving your velites a pain in the neck, and butt, and chest, and.... As a general rule of thumb, send your Equites after enemy archers or slingers. There are usually better ways to deal with enemy javelinmen, and you really don't want to send your Equites after the 'better' skirmishers (Illyrian Mercenaries, Heavy Peltasts, Theureoupheoi, etc.) since these units may fight back rather than routing and some of them actually have spears as secondary weapons! If you don't have a choice, though, the Equites will do well... that higher moral and better training that they have means that if their target does turn around and fight back with you trapped behind enemy lines, your horsemen won't panic and run away like Italian Cavalry sometimes will. Just extract them from the fight, reform them, and charge again. Second time is usually the charm.

Italian Cavalry - Italian Cavalry can be fickle. They are the 'best' cavalry you can get in the beginning in the sense that their attack and defense stats and charge bonus is superior to the Equites and the Gallic and Libyan cavalry that are most likely your next available recruits. BUT, they can have moral problems. You have to be careful with them and protect them from being caught by infantry or charged in the flanks by enemy cavalry. That said, they are one of the most flexible units in your army and can take on a variety of roles depending on your immediate needs:

As cavalry killers they are decent, especially if you back them up with a unit of spearmen. Your early enemies are mostly going to field either light cavalry or family members. Your Italian cavalry will vastly outnumber any family members other than faction leaders and heirs, so they can engage them with confidence, provided they are well supported. And like any heavy cavalry they can deal with most light cavalry with ease. Dealing with any enemy cavalry ought to be their first priority if the enemy still has cavalry when your infantry engages. In a lot of battles, the enemy cavalry will already be dead at this point (we'll get to that in a little bit). If that's the case, they can move on to their next role...

As skirmisher killers they want to work in conjunction with the Equites. The Equites deal with light skirmishers, particularly archers and slingers. The Italian Cavalry can do the same, if there are more than one slinger/archer units to deal with. It can also deal with heavier skirmishers, the ones we said to keep the Equites away from if possible. You want to make sure that the Italian Cavalry gets a charge at them, though. If they turn and fight, disengage immediately and if possible charge them with your family member (you do have your family member nearby, right? Don't send him in if there are still unengaged enemies that need to be watched out for.) while the Italian Cavalry reforms and prepares to charge again. Pull your family member out of the fight as the Italians charge in and keep repeating this process until the enemy unit breaks and routs. After all the enemy skirmishers are dead or permanently on the run you are probably the victor of the battle. If, however, your infantry is still slogging it out you can...

Use the Italian Cavalry to charge into the rear of the enemy infantry. I'll assume you know how to conduct a proper charge, and I'll only say that you don't want to leave these guys in a melee if the enemy doesn't break, and always make sure they are Fresh or Warmed Up before charging them. If they are Winded or worse, let them rest. Often just placing them behind the enemy line, ready to charge will cause enemy units to break, so let your cavalry rest there and do some good.

*A special note, if enemy cavalry or infantry is routing, but still has enough men in their units that there is a good chance they will reform and return to the battle, keeping them on the run is more important most of the time than breaking more units with your cavalry. In this situation keep your Italians, and even your family members busy chasing these larger routing units until they no longer pose a potential threat. Obviously, this is a job your Equites should be engaged in full time after the skirmishers are dealt with, but sometimes you have more units on the run than one unit of horsemen can deal with.

Closing notes on cavalry deployment and use en masse

Your 'active' cavalry, ie. everything but your general, should almost always be massed on one flank or the other of your army, set back from the front, and screened by a unit or two of spear-armed troops if you can spare them. Usually you will want this to be side directly opposing the heaviest concentration of enemy cavalry. There are exceptions, usually imposed by bad terrain. At any event, unless the enemy army is very missile unit heavy, you will want to keep your cavalry 'in reserve' until your heavy infantry has engaged and tied down the enemy infantry. If you are lucky, your skirmishers and their supporting spearmen have already killed all or most of the enemy cavalry. At this point you are ready to act... Equites and Italian Cavalry moving out after specific targets, and your family member(s) riding behind ready to intercept any new threats.

If you don't need them for the infantry battle, bring your screening spearmen along as well: they can make mincemeat of any remaining enemy cavalry and they can certainly chase routing skirmishers, freeing up your cavalry to do other things. I like to use Samnite Mercenaries for my screening spears; Gallic or Illyrian warbands work well, too.

The Light Infantry


General Thoughts

The real killing power in a Roman army is in the heavy infantry. Unlike the armies of Numidia, or Sarmatia, or Parthia ranged units don't factor into Roman warfare very much. There are no achers available for recruitment or hire for quite some time. You can train Funditores, and you can occassional hire Balearic Slingers down around Paestum. Your skirmisher options are limited to two units: Velites and Italian Skirmishers. Both have good stats for skirmishers, but they are also both rather pricey for skirmishers. Ok, so why have them?

The most basic answer is: they are there to get shot at. The most important part of the Roman army is the heavy infantry core. It's job is to kill the enemy in hand to hand combat. It does you no good if your Hastati and Principes are dying before closing to swordarm range. Your skirmishers, though... well, they can fire at range, so they can inflict casualties while taking them without having to take the time to close with the enemy.

The slightly more complex answer is: they are bait. When you send skirmishers out ahead of your army, they should always be accompanied by a unit of spearmen. I love Samnite Mercenaries for this job, too. The enemy cavalry can rarely pass up the opportunity to charge down light troops in the field. So, not only are your skirmishers killing some enemy soldiers and drawing fire away from your heavies, they are also goading the enemy cavalry to run right into your waiting spears.

The most complex answer is: they skirmish. The role of a skirmisher in any army is to wear the army down. To use a relatively small amount of force to have a disproportionately high impact on the enemy's ability to fight. Not only do your skirmishers draw enemy fire that a) could be killing more expensi... er... important... troops and b) will be mostly wasted on them since you have them in loose formation (you do have them in loose formation, right?), they also tempt the enemy to waste his cavalry forces, and more often than not, he'll also try to charge them with infantry after his cavalry fails. This is when you fall back until he gives up and turns around. Then you do it all over again. By keeping the enemy units moving you do something more important than killing them (though hopefully you are doing some of that, too): you are wearing them out, so they will be ridiculously easy for your heavy infantry to kill later.

At first glance, it may seem that there aren't that many differences between Velites and Italian Skirmishers, and you may be tempted to just use one or the other. That would be a mistake. The differences are subtle but real, and the two units have slightly different roles to play in your army.

Velites - These are your native troops. They should always be part of your army for no other reason than no matter how far you spread, you can train more, at least until Gaius Marius comes along and messes things up. Of course, there are other reasons to have them around. First off, they have higher moral than most skirmishers in the game, which means they don't rout when the enemy insults their mothers like a lot of light units do. They can exhaust themselves and still stay in the fight, with care. Secondly, they have decent hand to hand combat stats. They can hold their own for a little while against heavy skirmishers, and they can eat other light skirmishers for lunch.

These are your premier skirmishers. Try to keep them alive. Your Italian Skirmishers and your supporting spearmen are tasked with supporting your Velites. Ideally you want a lot of things to be happening when these guys go into the fight. You want the enemy to be shooting at you (well, preferably at the Italian Skirmishers, we'll get to that in a bit) if he has missile troops. You want his cavalry to charge so you can slaughter it with your spearmen, and you want his units running around getting tired. But how do you achieve this? Well, sometimes it isn't possible. Sometimes his cavalry just won't charge and sometimes his units just won't run wily nily. That is out of your hands. Ultimately, the only thing you have to do is give the Velites a target. So long as they are on skirmish mode, and you are ready to support them with the Italian Skirms and the spearmen, they ought to take care of themselves. So, what target do you give them?

Any other army in the game best employs its skirmishers against enemy heavy infantry, particulary when they can throw into the enemy flanks and rear. This is because most javelin armed skirmishers have the 'AP_thrown' trait. Their javelins ignore half of the target's armor rating. Throwing javelins at lightly armoured troops is not getting the most out of their abilities, especially if those troops are in a loose formation. For any other faction in the game it would be a mistake to try to skirmish with the enemy skirmishers. With a Roman army, however, it is vital. You don't want those armour piercing javelins being thrown at your heavily armoured Principes or Triarii, after all.

Whenever practicable, Velites should engage enemy skirmishers. If they can charge the enemy skirmishers without ending up in melee combat with enemy melee infantry, they should do so, and preserve their javelins for later use. If there are no enemy skirmishers, or they are proving impossible to pin down, the next target of choice is an enemy melee unit with a stash of javelins... Italian Swordsmen, Celt-Iberian Scutarii, Hyspaspistai, etc. Failing that, if you have an elevation advantage, pick the heaviest armoured enemy heavy infantry. If you do not have an elevation advantage, pick the lightest armoured enemy heavy infantry.

Once your javelins are all gone, if there are no units you can safely pursue and engage with swords, withdraw to behind your heavy infantry and rest until enemy units start to rout. Velites are great router chasers. In rare occassions, in desperate circumstances, you can use Velites as flanking melee infantry. A unit of fresh Velites charging into the rear of a tired enemy infantry unit can often cause it to break. If not, try not to leave your Velites in combat more than a few moments. Their stats aren't that good.

Italian Skirmishers - So if Velites are so good, why do we need Italian Skirmishers? Their melee stats aren't as good, they have less moral, and they cost more to recruit and upkeep. What is their purpose? Well, they are better than the Velites in three crucial areas.

First, Italian Skirmishers have a massive bonus against both elephants and chariots. Velites have only a very mild bonus against these enemies. Your Velites could easily throw all of their javelins against a group of African Elephants and only kill half of them, which is still much better than archers or slingers can do. Italian Skirmishers can often achieve the same effect with a single volley. That alone is reason to have them around, considering that Phyrrus hanging around at the start of the game, and war with Carthage is inevitable sooner or later.

Second, Italian Skirmishers have more armour than Velites. When it comes time to entire the enemy into wasting their ammunition on your skirmishers, you want them to be firing at your Italian Skirmishers rather than your Velites. It's a small difference in casualties, but it adds up in the long run.

Third, Italian Skirmishers are armed with a spear for melee and have the weapon trait light_spear which gives a small bonus against cavalry. This means that Italian Skirmishers can give a nasty shock to light and even medium cavalry that charges them provided their moral holds. Two units of Italian Skirmishers working together can deal with all but the heaviest of cavalry. Deployed one behind the other, with a decent gap between, the first unit can fall back when cavalry comes charging, while the unit in rear pivots to the side. As the cavalry comes closer, charging after the unit that was in front, the unit that was in rear throws a volley or two of javelins. This will decimate any cavalry force by itself, but then the fleeing skirmishers turn and counter charge the cavalry, and the support skirmishers charge in from the side. Between them they can make very quick work of most cavalry. From a logistical standpoint this means that three or four units of skirmishers can be effectively protected from cavalry by only one unit of spearmen, if two of the skirmishers, deployed together, are Italians.

After any cavalry that wants to play has been dealt with, the Italian Skirmisher with the most javelins left should follow the same rules of engagement as the Velites, while the other unit stays behind its fellow skirmishers and tries to flank any infantry that decides to try to pursue them. Throwing javelins into the right side or rear of an infantry unit will inflict massive casualties, and under the right circumstances could even rout an otherwise fresh unit.

Italian Skirmishers can be used to pursue other light skirmishers, and should do so if it is safe. Otherwise, after exhausting their javelins, they should withdraw behind friendly lines and rest. Employ them chasing routers when you can.

Funditores -

I personally like to replace one of my units of Velites with a unit of Funditores (or some other slinger) in my Consular armies. The job of Funditores is pretty straightforward. Get them somewhere they have a clear shot of the enemy, make sure they have support, particularly from spearmen, if they need it, and get the slings a slingin'. The biggest things with these guys is knowing what to shoot. They can outrange pretty much anything but other slingers and siege weapons. Any sort of missile cavalry is top of the list, followed by enemy slingers, then enemy archers, then enemy skirmishers and so forth. These guys can't really go out with the other skirmishers; they are too fragile. Keep them near the heavy infantry where they are well protected. Keep them on guard mode, and keep autofire off. Slingers have a nasty habit of killing their friends if they aren't carefully watched.

A final note on deployment and use of skirmishers

It is good to deploy the skirmishers to the flank of the main body of troops, on the opposite side of the cavalry. This is not always practical because of terrain or the deployment of the enemy's troops, and it isn't that important. The skirmishers and the cavalry are active during different parts of the engagement and shouldn't get in each others way. In general, try to deploy skirmishers to your left. The enemy's right is the most susceptable to missile damage. Again, this isn't always practical. The most important thing is that the skirmishers are doing something before the main battle starts, and that they are forcing the enemy to react to them, thereby wearing him down for the heavy infantry to finish off.

Be extra cautious not to get so involved in micromanaging the skirmisher duels that you forget to keep the rest of the plan in motion. The skirmishers are meant to screen the advance of the heavy infantry. As soon as the enemy cavalry is dealt with (if it is going to be) and the enemy's own skirmishers and missile troops are on the run or at least so busy manoeuvering that they can't fire, it is time to send in the heavy infantry. Don't wait for your own skirmishers to be finished before moving in with the real killers. Do not give the enemy a chance to rest. Your heavy infantry needs time to launch their own javelins before charging and this is best accomplished while the enemy is distracted.

The Heavy Infantry


General Thoughts

More so than any other army, the Roman army depends on its heavy infantry to win the day. There is often a lot of controversy over the 'best' way to use and deploy heavy infantry in a Roman army. On the one hand you have players who insist on holding true to the manipular deployment of Hastati--Principe--Triarii, from front to back. Then you have players who argue that the greatest Roman commanders didn't always employ the manipular formation. There are players who ditch the Hastati from their armies, and there are players who load up on Triarii. I suspect, somwhere, there are players who usually play with phalanx armies who just stock up on Italian spearmen.

Historically, Roman armies weren't big on flanking. Certainly not with the Roman troops. The Roman way was to punch through the center with the ancient equivalent of 'Shock and Awe'. Often it worked; sometimes, like at Cannae, it utterly failed. Still, most of the time, against most enemies, a frontal approach is the best method with Roman troops. Even against an army full of phalangites that you don't want to charge into head-on, you still want the bulk of your army in front of the enemy army. That way, when you do send units around to outflank him, he can't avoid being flanked from one direction or another.

My personal view is that the historic core of heavy infantry (2 Hastati, 2 Principes, 2 (half-strength) Triarii, 2 Italian Swordsmen, 2 Italian Spearmen) is nearly perfect for most situations. As for deployment, I use the manipular formation most of the time, at least initially. When it is clearly deficient I have no qualms about changing my deployment. At the end of the day, the Roman ethos is all about problem solving. The Romans were a civilisation of engineers. If something didn't work, they fixed it. If something needed to be done that couldn't be done, they found a new way to do it. So, figuring out a deployment for the core of your army is up to you to decide for every battle. I'll just give some notes about the strengths and weaknesses of each type of unit, and why it's good to have around.

Hastati - I want to start with these guys. They really get a bad rap just like the Equites. People look at the stats and compare them to the Principes. Then they see that the cost isn't that much different and they say, "Why would I ever use Hastati?" Well, some of us like the historical accuracy, but there are good practical reasons as well.

First off, the Hastati are still one of the best heavy infantry units in the game. They will perform well against almost anything. Also, what defense they do have is mostly a result of defense skill, which means they are at less of a relative disadvantage against enemy units that have armour piercing weapons. Thracian Infantry is the first one that comes to mind. In fact, if memory serves, when faced with armour piercing weapons the Hastati may have one more defense than the Principes. At the very least the gap closes to near irrelevance.

Second, don't believe everything you read. The in-game stats don't tell half the story. The Hastati have a significantly lower heat_stat than the Principes do. Because of the Principes heavier armour, they will get tired more quickly and they absolutely suffer in the heat. This is worth remember when it's time to invade Africa or Syria. Also, even in cooler climates, the Hastati are better able to run around without getting tired. Ok, so what are some practical applications?

Well, in the front line, it means that if your skirmishers cause the enemy to break formation and expose a unit's flank to your main force, the Hastati can react quicker than the Principes and can charge in there over a significant distance and still arrive fresh, while a unit of Principes may be warmed up. Further, when fighting, the Hastati will grow tired more slowly than the Principes and, more importantly, more slowly than most enemies. This means that the Hastati becomes a relatively better unit the longer it stays in combat, since fatigue decreases defense skill, attack skill, and moral. So while the Hastati is seeing it's combat stats go down, the unit it is fighting against will usually see them go down faster.

Traditionally, the Hastati would go into battle first and wear down the enemy, make him tired. Now, there is a good chance that your skirmishers have already warmed up a lot of the enemy army, so by the time the Hastati are winded, the enemy may very well be very tired. The whole time the Hastati are fighting, the Principes would march up close, and then as they charge in, the Hastati would withdraw backwards out of the way. The fresh Principes could then finish off the tired or very tired enemy with ease, while the Hastati rest. This tactic works in RTR and if you can pull it off well, results in very few casualties. The key is to make sure the Hastati are fighting with 'guard' engaged so they can then fall back in good order. Unfortunately, if they don't manage a near perfect charge, they can get screwed up and can even end up turning their backs on the enemy and letting them slaughter at will. For me, this is something new, since this was rarely a problem in Gold and I'm guessing its a result of the 1.5/1.6 patch. The tactic still works, though. You just have to be a little more careful, and keep your eyes on your men a little more closely.

Third, the Hastati are great flankers if you want to fight non-traditionally. They are fast, they don't tire easily, they carry javelins, and they pack one heck of punch in melee especially when they can deliver into an enemy's back. Principes aren't as good at flanking due to their heat_stat and their armour weighing them down. I think this and the other two reasons ought to be more than enough to justify keeping the hastati around.

Principes - Easily the most cost effective killing machine in the game. There really isn't much more to say than that. Protect the flanks. Try not to run the unit more than necessary. Traditionally these guys don't fight until the battle is half over. Don't be afraid to use them in the beginning if you are fighting really tough units, however. As good as Hastati are, there are some things that only Principes should handle. Spartans come to mind. Hyspaspitai. Sacred Band. Whatever you do, do not let Principes get flanked. They can fight fairly well surrounded, but they'll still take shameful losses. These men are just too good to throw away. Keep the enemy in front of them.

Triarii - Arguably better than the Principes and murder on cavalry, they are also pricey. Traditionally, these men would rarely fight. Their job was to be the rearguard in the event of a retreat, something they can do very well in game if the need should happen to arise. I like to use them in city assaults to block off streets, sometimes to push down a street. In a field battle... they hang back and are available to plug any gaps or support a flank in danger of being turned. I long ago modded my EDU to give my Triarii the Hasta back, rather than the short_pike. This negatively affected their combat performance against infantry, but I can live with that as they still do quite well. Either way, the Triarii are the guys you use when it all hangs in the balance and things are perhaps not going so well. Otherwise, let the Eagle they carry inspire the rest of the men.

Italian Swordsmen - Cheap. Strong. Their combat stats are slightly better than the Hastati, placing them in the middle of the Great Hastati/Principes Debate. However, they don't have as much stamina and they have lower moral. But they are cheaper. I consider them to be ideal troops to guard the flanks of the more professional Roman infantry. They can hold against just about anything long enough for the center to do what it needs to do. If there is no threat to your flanks, they can be used as flankers to threaten the enemy flanks.

Italian Spearmen - Good against cavalry and can stand against most infantry for a fair while but isn't likely to actually win. If the enemy has cavalry they are best kept in reserve on the flanks of the main body of your army. If the enemy has no cavalry, I like to use them to hold my flanks, while I use the Italian Swordsmen to flank the enemy. Ultimately though they are just like the Italian Swordsmen, they are inexpensive and cost-effective units who's job is to keep enemy infantry and cavalry away from the Hastati and Principes flanks while your Roman infantry crushes the enemy center. It's not a glamourous job, but someone's got to do it.

Final Thoughts

There are obviously 2 or 3 discretionary slots that you can add other units to your army. More Italians, or mercenary units. I'm obviously very fond of Samnite Mercenaries. Some more family members to bolster the cavalry corps isn't a bad idea either. The basic idea is to use these slots to provide whatever you need more of for the enemy you are fighting and the terrain you are fighting on.

Any unit in an army should have a role to fill. The role can change from battle to battle or even from minute to minute, but it needs to be better thought out than just telling it to attack. Before a battle begins you should have an idea of what is going to happen based on the terrain, your army, his army, and your plan. You have to be able to adjust on the fly, but the basic idea should stay constant. If you have a unit in your army that you can't explain to yourself what it is there for and how its being there contributes to victory, you need to replace it with a different unit that you understand.

The Roman army that I've outlined above is a good one. I like it. I know what every unit can do and what I'll have it do. I don't lose battles. I rarely even play as Rome anymore because it's too easy using these tactics. I tend to play as Numidia or the Sarmatians nowadays... something with a little excitement. Coincidentally, almost everything I've written above is useless against Numidia or Sarmatia. Or Parthia for that matter. It's only something to get started with in the Western Mediterreanean. As you go North and East or into the desert you'll have to come up with new ideas. The Roman core of the army, though... the Velites/Funditores, Equites, Hastati, Principes, and Triarii will serve you well anywhere. It's what you put around it that has to change and how you use it.

I hope you find this helpful, perhaps even educational. And perhaps I ought not have said 'briefly' at the beginning...

[Incomitatus]

Oops

[Only None]

I like hammer and anvil, but I also like to surround the enemy as much as possible before striking the hammer blow so I have fewer routers to chase. I do take a few more casualties that way, but the carnage is worth it (for me) and I get to bring more heavy infantry.

I don't know if they're still available in 1.9, but in 1.8 you can recruit mercenary Asian elephants in Epirus (northwest Greece, due east of Tarentum if I remember correctly) that are the ultimate hammer, if you can afford the upkeep. The AI does a poor job of attacking them with ranged units so I very rarely have a problem with them running amok. I change my formations a lot before I get the elephants - depending on terrain, army compositions, etc. - but once I have them the front line usually looks something like this:

HHHHHEHH
------H--

H=Heavy Infantry
E=Elephants

Once the melee battle is about to begin i charge the elephants and move the infantry up to seal the line. I keep the elephants charging back and forth across the enemy line, perhaps attacking their general once he's been committed, and the enemy routs very quickly. It is important to keep the line on guard mode or they might follow units that flee (who tend to come back for more) and get surrounded on the other side of the enemy formation. Of course, if you're paying attention you can shove more units through that hole and attack the enemy's new flanks and rear.

[Mr_Ace]

Depends on what type of fighting style you wish to uphold as a General. It also depends on the army composition of the enemy you are directly facing, so there isn't always an idealistic composition of a decent army....but it can change rather drastically depending on the situation.

Placing cavalry on your flanks and making a dependency on your main heavy infantry to hold the enemy in place, so your cavalry can charge them in their flanks or rear is ideal for a cavalry commander. Placing light or heavy infantry on your flanks, whilst your main infantry holds the enemy at bay for the light or heavy infantry on your flanks to envelop the enemy at all sides is ideal for an infantry commander.

Depending on the situation, your composition of the army will always change. Although if you are an expert at tactics and stratagem, then one solid composition might be right for you. It is up to you to decide for yourself.