Byg's Grim Reality - Supply and Command (BGRIII, BGR IV & BGRIV Enhanced)

[Babri]

I am an average player but I do like challenge & game more closer to reality. So should I try BGRIV ? The new financial system seems to be very interesting. Though I don't like to be frustrated too much by very hard difficulties.

[Byg]

Ah, tough isn't it? No one thing will do it, but keep in mind that unlike vanilla you wont have money to throw around and you will have to think ahead quite a bit.

Try to garrison where possible with free upkeep units.

When you take an army into the field get them from a to b fast to minimise forage damage and to keep supply consumption low.

Work out a plan for any invasion or conquest so as to minimise costs.

Disband high upkeep mercenaries as soon as you can do without them.

If in the "right to knight restricted" phase or later introduce the scutage tax, as long as your generals wont go broke because of it.

With hindsight it might have been better not to join a crusade until building up some cash.

Don't take on any new family members for a while, if possible, as their purse comes out of the economy.

Try to get peace with neighbours so trade income increases, perhaps sell Cairo or trade it for temporary peace if at war with any neigbours. You are not really big enough yet to afford it.

[Babri]

Try to garrison where possible with free upkeep units.

All of my units are garrisoned

Disband high upkeep mercenaries as soon as you can do without them.

I have'nt hired any merceneries.

With hindsight it might have been better not to join a crusade until building up some cash.

OK ! Next time I'll be more careful.

Don't take on any new family members for a while, if possible, as their purse comes out of the economy.

I only have 4 family members. I don't think that is too much.

Try to get peace with neighbours so trade income increases, perhaps sell Cairo or trade it for temporary peace if at war with any neigbours. You are not really big enough yet to afford it.

But the problem is that Egypt is not willing to make peace. They once offered me to become their vassal. That is totally unacceptable. And I am at war with Moors as well. I'll try to make peace with them.

And can you explain a bit how to increase taxes on the nobles to keep myself out of debt ?

[Byg]

What is the difference between the War Council member ancillary and the War Council member trait?

The trait is just for the king so it cannot be removed from him.

Hi Byg why isn't this latest version of your mod integrated in to DLV/BB, which in my opinion is the greatest mod of them all for M2TW. Please let me know.

BGRV? Too much work.

[Byg]

Well, as I said, you should consider selling your Egytian holdings, maybe swapping for asettlement nearer home even. I would have accepted the vassalship for some money as well. Then use the money to build up your economy, unless of course you think you are capable of taking on Egypt and expanding until you make profit. I don't know how good you are.
The nobles taxes are explained in this link, under the heading Taxing Nobles.

[Babri]

I just want to ask one more thing. Can I manually issue punishment or is it automatic & in what sense does the nobles disobey the faction leader ?

[Byg]

Punishments are decided by your leader. Some laws and subsequent punishments are based upon his character. A noble may disobey an order and orders are issued by the leader. All current orders are displayed in the leader's traits. Aside from disobeying orders generals may also be caught and punished for corruption. You may notice a noble's purse sometimes increasing at the faction's expense. This is due to his character and circumstances.

[karaislam]

which version for vanilla kingdoms?

[Byg]

You have to adapt it to use with mods or vanilla campaigns (kingdoms only) because the code needs to vary depending on the settlements and units present in your game.
I don't support this because I don't have it with Kingdoms myself.

I don't think you have to do a lot of the kingdoms preparation stuff if you have already modded and thus unpacked files etc. Not sure.

General info

BGRIII

BGRIV_E



Oh and i just found this, which we must have done and forgotten. It appears to be ready made BGRIII files for kindoms.

[karaislam]

thanks byg.i ll check them

[godfather_77]

I am planning on playing with SS v6.4 and I have chosen to play with Byg v 2. I have some questions. I am assuming that resupply and/or foraging is done automatically when units are in a territory? I am confused about the supply ships...can any ship be a supply ship and where does this ship have to be in relation the army a port in the region or in the body of water adjacent to a region? Finally do more ships provide more supply?

[Byg]

Hi, my main thread is in the Stainless Steel submods section. You can find all the information for that (very old) version on the first post there, just scroll down until you see BGR2. Supply ships are represented as being within fleets of any size, so any ship. Resupply in them by moving your general on board for a turn or more.

[godfather_77]

Thx!

[Ermis]

I'm playing early era Lithuania on hard with BGR only. I'm like 55 turns away from the end and still up to this day I haven't been able to recruit any A grade soldiers (any temple soldiers, no lithuanian heavy cavalry from castles, no noble son's infrantry (the one's that frighten enemy infantry I believe)) or any artillery pieces for that matter. Not with a single general, not with a single heir, not with a single grand duke ;/

[Byg]

Hi, are you playing bgr via stainless steel mod? In which case you may prefer the bgr thread in the submods section there as that is the main bgr forum.

You don't say which bgr mod you are playing, but I assume it is 3, 4 or 5. They occupy post numbers one , two and three of the bgr thread there. BgrIV and V have a Manual to download too.

Without further details of what you are using this is all I can tell you, except that all bgr mods are bug free.

[Byg]

Announcement.

BGRV final version released.

As it is based only on the stainless steel 6.4 mod platform you won't find it in this thread.

It is linked here in my other thread.


Here's the feature list, though there are a few more BGRV features and changes not listed here, that can be viewed in the other thread where you can also find an instruction manual for download.

There are even more features not listed here, included from previous versions of this mod, e.g. Each noble has his own purse of money with all that entails.

Feature List


Extreme Difficulty for Expert / Experienced / Dedicated / Obsessive Players

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You should find that any single AI faction is more than a match for you even if you have been playing for years. Now you will have to plan a very good strategy or die.

Destroys the Snowball Effect

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

All total war games and mods I have seen decrease in difficulty as you progress, often causing experts and experienced players to abandon campaigns out of boredom, but BGRV increases difficulty with progression via realistic medieval factors.

Longer Turn Times

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The price of greater depth and gameplay is one I believe is worth paying. BGRV adds at least 150,000 lines of code. It is unlikely that you will have so little to do that you will wish to pass turns quickly and you should find every turn a challenge.

Advanced Depth of Gameplay

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

All the features work together, often interacting with each other, fulfilling the intention of creating a game with enough challenge and depth to drown yourself in.

Unit Cost & Upkeep Formulas

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Unit costs are based on formulas to eliminate "dead" units whose costs bear no relation to their in-game worth as a fighting unit and so never get recruited. Costs are also higher than normal.

Supply System

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Complete interactive, interlinked forage and supply system with a tailored version for the ai too.
Option to forage or consume own supplies.
Forced consumption of supplies whilst marching at full speed.

Regional Resources & Foraging

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Linked to the foraging system, but also a gameplay element in its own right. Regional resources are affected by harvests which are affected by weather & foraging armies, which in turn are affected by weather and regional resources.
Both the player and the AI may interact with each other via these features, for example with a scorched earth policy

Weather System

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Affects armies' abilities and harvests on a regional and seasonal basis.

Acclimatisation

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Armies become acclimatised to their own climates or any they spend time in. Acclimatising a noble in order for him to be prepared for local conditions that his army must endure is an important factor. It would be wise for example to first acclimatise a noble raised in hot desert conditions for a campaign against a region with colder conditions, particularly if his campaign drags on into the winter.

Regional Feudalism & Centralisation

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Decide for yourself, to some degree, which regions are centrally controlled by the Faction Leader and which are locally controlled by Lords.

Progressive Army Centralisation

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From a universal 'right to knight' and high degree of independence for all Lords, optionally giving way to a system based around scutage and ultimately ending with increased centralised control over armies.

Twelve Turns (Months) Per Year

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This enables many of the new features which enhance strategic gameplay.
In other games historical time dominates gameplay at the expense of characters time. This is usually seen as game time passing a year whilst characters are slowed down to fit, in terms of movement, by as much as twenty times.
BGRV takes a different approach, giving priority to character time and military planning considerations, thus in a year a character may now:-
travel from one side of the map to the other as reality would allow,
experience seasonal changes affecting the timing of military campaigns,
have the possibility of living long enough to see the begining and end of the game.
I adapted the 12 TPY script provided by GrnEyedDvl. So credit where it is due.

Feudal Land Tenure & Recruitment System

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Recruitment features:-
Setting of the number of men eligible (and required) to bear arms factionwide (military service pool).
Regional military service pools set based on their proportinate contribution towards the factionwide service pool

Central regions (Leader's Demesne) have the ability to pool their recruitment resources at any regional capital and to concentrate elite training at the faction capital.
The Leader & Heir and those employed as governors by this central authority are the only nobility with authorisation to recruit & build in these territories.

Locally Controlled regions (with their own feudal lords holding land tenure) may be controlled only by their local lord.

Instant Reports On BGR features

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you want to know how much foraging resources there are in one of your regions before traversing it with your armies then simply summon an instant report with a keypress.
If you have to traverse foreign land and wish to know if it can support your amies in advance then you must first send a spy to scout the region who will provide a report for your army.

To summon a recruitment report for any of your locally controlled regions, a keypress will provide you with the total available recruit pool for that region.
Likewise, selecting a report for a centrally owned region gives the total number of recruits for the entire central authority (or Leader's demesne).

Gameplay Vs Cause and Effect Vs History

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Any game that tries to adhere to a historical timeline does so at the expense of realism, for every action the player and the AI take should rewrite history. Therefore we have no idea when historical events might really occur in your game unless we know all the triggers. We cannot even be certain that events would progress in the same order. Therefore setting events for gameplay reasons is no less realistic than any other method.

So rather than leave historical time now stetching the game into thousands of turns to experience events at the 'correct' historical time with 12 turns per year, history has been accelerated in order for the player to experience interesting medieval events within a reasonable timeframe of 400 turns, which is the same rate as a 1TPY mod, though this game will allow you to play for thousands.

Therefore this mod, in conjunction with the SS late campaign with its start date of 1220, allows you to fly through history and experience hundreds of years of medieval history within a game character's lifetime.

Alternatively, if you want to only experience the passing of history that a game character would see in his lifetime from a start date of 1220 and using conventional time speed (i.e. not much will change in your campaign) then use the optional Historical timeline Version

Future tweaks may link some medieval events to cause and effect where good logic exists for doing so.

Zeal System

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As implemented in previous releases, but with greater dominance due to the toning down or removal of non-BGR bonuses.

Less, but Scarier Opposition

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The AI will send less armies, but those it does send will be far more dangerous to you. It will feel more realistic and immersive as a result

No Unrealistic Building Based Recruitment

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As it is entirely unrealistic, building based recruitment has been largely removed, though you may still build these buildings for any bonuses they endow.

Any region can now produce most of a faction's units, subject to the area of recruitment (where some units only formed locally), governance, supplies, wealth of the regional Lord plus the usual economy of the faction.

Single turn Recruitment

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Virtually all units can be recruited after a turn, subject to limiting factors.
Recruitment is now much more realistic with those who are obligated to provide military service being readily available when summoned.
The amount of troops obligated for military service is set by you each year.

Real Recruitment, Real Combat mod largely retained.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Though all recruitment build times and replishment times have been replaced with BGR ones suitable for 12 turns per year, all unit statistics are as set in Stainless Steel 6.4 via RRRC mod.
RRRC area of recruitment is in place
RRRC event led unit availability is in place, though accelerated for gameplay purposes.

Improved AI Army Composition

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hopefully the ai now is able to make armies of better value and better quality overall.

Improved Player Army Composition

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hopefully there are enough realistic factors now to encourage better balanced army composition.

Mercenary Disbandment

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No pay, mercenaries may abandon you. Some of your mercenaries may disappear when your money runs out.

Rebalanced BGR Crusade Features

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Reduced crusade donations from nobles
Added authority drop for failure to join

Total War Exploits Tackled

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Many exploits of total war features now removed, reduced or with penalties.
e.g:-
stakes, trait bonuses, ancillary bonuses, automanage, leaving armies on impregnable defensive terrain indefinitely, increased fort and watchtower costs, excessive money, excessive mission bonuses, free upkeep, over generous AI diplomatic deals due to money bonuses etc

Existing Total War features now worthy of concern

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

These are either tackled directly by BGR or brought to prominence as a result of BGR features:
money, traits, battle losses, troop production, diplomacy, strategy map movement etc

Promotes Advanced Planning & Thinking

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Doing nothing is not an option. Doing something wrong can be dangerous. Doing anything has consequences.
Gathering wealth, delegating command and land tenure, obtaining supplies and efficiently foraging or consuming supplies, creating a suitable recruitment system, using the recruitment system correctly, acclimatising your armies to fight in severe conditions and fighting your battles carefully are all things you must juggle, not just to expand, but to survive.

Faction Equaliser (Difficulty Leveller)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The systems helping to equalise difficulty across factions and game progress are:-
The new Recruitment System.
The Centralisation System
The Faction Zeal Feature

These player only features help make factions playable that would otherwise be too easy & enable balanced hotseat games.

Non reliance on AI money bonuses

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm using a simple method to help the ai manage its money, which has partly enabled me to remove the bulk of the money bonuses from Stainless Steel.

[DMX23]

Awesome work !!! is it compatible with Bellum Crucis? plz say yes

[Byg]

Thanks, but no, it is for the stainless steel platform as it says at the top.

[jester204]

How can you lower recruitment times in ss6.4 bgr iv ii

meaning how can I change the 13 turn wait for a heavy infantry unit to say 1 like bgr v

[Silius Saurus]

How do I lower the tax burden on the Nobles? all my nobles are going broke and the treasury is packed.