Byg's Grim Reality - Supply and Command (BGRIII, BGR IV & BGRIV Enhanced)

[Scalylizard]

I was wondering, when a character has "Impaired recruitment Ability" does that affect only the recruitment of the superior units or does it affect all recruitment?
I am trying to find out whether this trait limits all recruitment in the event that the total kingdom armies reach or exceed a certain number. (so that a limited number of units can be fielded within given parameters)
Thanks

[captainbloodloss]

I successfully installed the mod and have been playing it for about an hour now. I noticed however, that the trait "army fully supplied", "50 percent supplied," seems to just go away after sever turns of a siege or even just being in enemy territory. Does it still have an effect or is something wrong?

And how are captains treated? I mean with their morale bonuses (Or lack thereof) and supplies.

[Byg]

Scalylizard
Was answered on other thread. HERE

I successfully installed the mod and have been playing it for about an hour now. I noticed however, that the trait "army fully supplied", "50 percent supplied," seems to just go away after sever turns of a siege or even just being in enemy territory. Does it still have an effect or is something wrong?

And how are captains treated? I mean with their morale bonuses (Or lack thereof) and supplies.

Do you mean the popup message in faction announcements ceases to announce supply status or that there is no supply trait in the general's trait list? Can you post your export_descr_character_traits file in the bgrIII testers forum? (Zip it first).

Captains are subject to occasional rebellion, so at least with a general you have some indication of whether he will rebel, making large captained armies unwise. The idea is that captained armies only exist on foraging/pillaging and using that method only for supply makes the men unruly.

Splitting a large captained army up fits with the reasoning as some will find forage and some wont (it is less likely that both parts of a split army will rebel). The same logic can be thought of with generalled armies who run out of supplies. Split the army up and run for a home settlement or risk it and leave things to chance.

[Byg]

[QUOTE=captainbloodloss;2764164]I successfully installed the mod and have been playing it for about an hour now. I noticed however, that the trait "army fully supplied", "50 percent supplied," seems to just go away after sever turns of a siege or even just being in enemy territory. Does it still have an effect or is something wrong?
QUOTE]

Looking at the file you uploaded indicates that you installed bgrIII on top of an older version of bgr.

Older or even current versions of bgr must always be removed before installing bgr again or you may get two versions of the traits. The installer tried to cope by renaming some, but didn't quite manage it.

I was not aware that darthmod used an old version or any version of bgr, so where is it from?

Did you install some manual version by mistake before you used the auto installer?

[Byg]

BGR IV Now available for testing. Here

The test files are for Stainless Steel 6.1 users only. As usual a multi mod version will follow after testing.

The main threads for all BGR versions are the first two below in my signature.
.

[uk_john]

Byg - the only reason I gave upon your mod and other mods like it was it made small countries like Scotland ridiculously strong and made them as powerful in units as England with 6 times the cities and towns. The second thing was that the game regularly was not generating enough sons/generals to be able to cope with the demands of your mod. Remembering that you have to have a General in each of your major cities/forts, when trying to expand your faction you regularly find there is just not enough.

How does BYG IV, in your view, deal with these issues?

[Byg]

Byg - the only reason I gave upon your mod and other mods like it was it made small countries like Scotland ridiculously strong and made them as powerful in units as England with 6 times the cities and towns. The second thing was that the game regularly was not generating enough sons/generals to be able to cope with the demands of your mod. Remembering that you have to have a General in each of your major cities/forts, when trying to expand your faction you regularly find there is just not enough.

How does BYG IV, in your view, deal with these issues?

You mean "made small factions strong", by making it a harder and more taxing mental challenge to build an army for the human player who may be playing as a large faction? Well, in a sense it doesn't because it also makes big factions strong as long as they are ai controlled. That sounds confusing, but essentially it makes your own faction weaker as it expands, relative to ai factions. That is the same in IV as III.

On a historical sidenote, small factions do not always have the least powerful or smallest armies anyway. The Mongols had a population of hundreds of thousands, yet still beat the Chinese who had a population of millions. Its how you use your people that matters.

You don't actually have to have a general in each settlement and fort.

Nevertheless if lack of generals was an issue for you (I have not found it to be in my own campaigns) then I expect you were using your war councillors for constant recruitment and waging war with your weaker generals and getting them killed. I think we all were using bgrIII that way.
Am i right? If that's the case then you wont be able to do that in BGRIV because the disincentives are too great. When the King says he wants professional, centralised army control he means it this time. Hopefully in this version the King and his two associate War Councillors will get to do all your fighting and with them being your most powerful generals you wont lose so many.
Also you will find that it is now much easier to get two other War Councillors, again encouraging your better generals to lead the armies. If there is not a strong contender for the position then your leader will pick a weaker one up to a point.
The same issue will also be helped by WCs being able to pass on their recruiting ability without losing their fighting ability.
I hope that answers your points.

[captainbloodloss]

Ok, I posted it there.

[uk_john]

Thanks for that BYG, will check around to see whats out there. Would be nice to be able to say 'no' appointees, but I find I am desperate for every single one that appears and grab them even though thy are dubious as I am always short of what I need! Daughters/Princesses are not any better in that it seems random whether you snag a foreign General or the girl falls for him! I might say the same for the merchants. Why can I have a merchant on a site for 30 turns and him niot know enough about the area and his product to be taken over by a Dane or whoever just walzing in? I'd love to know the math on Sons/Daughters Princesses/Generals and Merchantslosing winning. I know each have experience levels which come into account,I am just saying why, for a merchant for example, is not 30 turns learning his product and his area not raising his level, but moving around knowing a little about a lot gets you the levelling up!

It's all these little things that when added to what your mod forces makes the game more a drudgery than entertaining.

[Byg]

Thanks for that BYG, will check around to see whats out there. Would be nice to be able to say 'no' appointees, but I find I am desperate for every single one that appears and grab them even though thy are dubious as I am always short of what I need! Daughters/Princesses are not any better in that it seems random whether you snag a foreign General or the girl falls for him! I might say the same for the merchants. Why can I have a merchant on a site for 30 turns and him niot know enough about the area and his product to be taken over by a Dane or whoever just walzing in? I'd love to know the math on Sons/Daughters Princesses/Generals and Merchantslosing winning. I know each have experience levels which come into account,I am just saying why, for a merchant for example, is not 30 turns learning his product and his area not raising his level, but moving around knowing a little about a lot gets you the levelling up!

It's all these little things that when added to what your mod forces makes the game more a drudgery than entertaining.

Hi, well as you say, those things aren't part of my mod, so what you can do is turn down your campaign level difficulty, that way M2TW makes your stats count more equally vs ai stats in some respects.

[uk_john]

Unlike most regular posters on this forum, I am not a hardcore MTW2 player, so have never played it on hard, let alone very hard. In any event, random is random. and math is math. And if a Dane can just stop at a 5 income product then another 5 income product, then another and another, and over 30 moves reach my merchant that has been there the whole time on a 30 income product I would have thought my guy would have a huge warehouse and shipping set up with employees and the whole get up and knowing his product inside out - and yet that Dane wins 99% of the time!

What I am saying then, is I struggle without adding anything else, unless what is added equals out overall, and the least your mod would need would be a guarantee of more Generals so that there is a shortage quite rarely. To do what your mod requires you do, with supply Generals and sending multiple Generals into battle, etc. - for the life of me I wouldn't know where all these Generals would come from!

[Byg]

Understood, but you understand this mod is aimed at experts who have played the game to death and require more challenge to maintain their interest.
For less hardened players I would recommend BGR II or 2.5.
Running out of members of your faction is one way to lose the game in BGRIV or any other M2TW game and I guess you are right, that aspect will be harder in BGRIV, but so will all aspects as all things become critical when you are really up against it.
My own first game with BGRIV was nearly lost by turn 20 and I have been playing for years, but this is the level of difficulty I have always been working towards.

[uk_john]

Fair comments yourself and thanks for the support in any case.

[gummz]

Incredible!

[Jiub]

There is no "data.zip" at the bottom of the post

[Byg]

Hi, Though this mod can be adapted to most most other mods, I mainly work and play with it using Stainless Steel. Therefore my main thread is over here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106060

Latest version is BGRIV Enhanced, due to be merged with the latest Real Recruitment compilation shortly.

The main recently added features are, to quote the other thread until I update the first post here:

BGRIV
As with previous versions this mod is designed for people who like to have to consider their moves and are happier with greater depth of challenge.
Contains all previous version features +

Aggressive, unpredictable AI
Further combats the "snowball" effect
AI faction random rebellions mostly prevented to keep those factions a challenge for you
Representation of the rise of professional armies and the demise of the feudal system (or even a collapse back to Feudalism).
The leader issues orders to nobles relevant to the state of his faction.
Contains individual wealth system & estate ownership for each general (make them or break them)
Generals pay some recruitment costs from their own purse.
Inflation feature for generals' purchases
3 way economic balance. The leader taxes the nobles and the nobles tax the people.
Balance the desires of the Leadership vs the nobles vs the people.
Field Army leaders must be generals with supplies, not captains.
Variable supply and forage consumption with army size
Supplies cost generals' money
Resupply In Camp
Transferable Resupply Train
Crime & Punishment System
Professional Training System
War Councillors can transfer their professional training staff to other generals for them to recruit in cities only.
New Corruption feature based on the character & finances of the noble and the economic position of the faction.

Alterations to previous version features:-
Easier to obtain War Councillors (the best are picked 1st & minimum requirements are much lower).
Finer graded Zeal levels (determine factionwide characteristics & level of religious support requirements for recruitment)

BGRIV & all previous versions have been written to be compatible with hotseat mode, but is untested in hotseat. If you know about hotseat please request any changes needed.

BGRIV Enhanced features:
* Increased Difficulty & challenge
* Option to mod some difficulty adjustments for some features mid campaign (for forage damage costs and estate prices).
* Recruitment Authority now granted faster
so you can now give a governors WC ancillary to another general,
put the new one in charge and get the benefits that same turn.
* Armies without generals may desert or revolt frequently due to the disorderly conduct
associated with only being able to forage, rather than have logistical supply abilities (existing feature).
* Small armies or single units without generals are less likely to desert or revolt en route to their destinations, so individual reinforcement units should be fine.
Large armies however should be led by generals, whether to war or travelling in home territory.
* Variable army size dependent damage to region costs for foraging armies in home regions, for general led armies
Varies with army size from 100 to 400/turn (200 to 800/turn with inflation). Unlead troops 200/400 fixed. Moddable mid campaign
Varies with army size from 200 to 800/turn (400 to 1600/turn with inflation) Unlead troops 400/800 fixed. Default level, Moddable mid campaign
* Fixed damage to region rate for non general armies (i.e a small captain army will probably have enough forage, but a large one will almost certainly lose discipline and desert or rebel).
* Existing variable supply & forage usage with army size feature now tweaked
* Resupply in homeland forts and when encamped feature tweaked
* Supply costs quadrupled
* Intelligent supply purchase system prevents generals spending all their money on supplies, typically leaving about 2000 float for taxes etc.
* Supply & forage consumption rate set to 1/4 when in forts, but forts now cost 15,000 if you choose to have forts enabled
* Minimum supply quantity required for quality troop production reduced to 50% from 100%
* Supplies can now be purchased in much smaller quantities benefitting poorer generals. Now 3% instead of 25%.
* Good Logisticians lose extra healing ability
* Banished Generals take estates for themselves upon conquest/ Unbanished Generals are awarded them.
* Unbanished Generals can buy estates 2000/4000 with Inflation(default) or 3000/6000 with inflation depending on modded difficulty level
* Out of supply effects now split between "out of supplies" & "starvation" traits. Starvation is a combination of no supplies and no forage.
* Old BGRIV corruption feature expanded to increase in line with expansion. ..."I wonder how that Noble was able to afford another estate on his income?"
* Extra crusade feature representing an exodus of some troops from religious regions to independently join a crusade when the faction leader fails to join a crusade in time. The effect is no quality troops available in regions of 80% or more own religion until the crusade(or Jihad) ends.
* not BGR related, but these files also attempt to tackle Timurid armies that have elephants, but not artillery and get stuck. It adds artillery to start armies that contain elephants in the hope that they will use the artillery. Feedback would be useful.
* New Leader's Orders based on his character. Disobedience will be punished.

Also the following minor changes:
Added one more feature to prevent the 'snowball' effect further.
Nobles' corruption feature added to enhance difficulty when necessary (desperately poor generals may turn corrupt depending on loyalty, but the very rich are worse, like real life)
Minor text changes
Removed potential for ai to get 'despondent'

[Byg]

I have made some multi mod BGRIV E files for Modders to make it easier to adapt BGRIV_E to other mods.

http://www.nerazzurri.net/bgr-forum/viewtopic.php?t=112

[Byg]

I have added a full BGRIV_Enhanced modding package at the same location as above to make the process simpler and easier.

[romanman753]

i have king and no WC general in a castle and a prince in a differant one, but in both cases the turns until next availible unit counter does not move down, yes i have checked that the faction zeal is at the proper level. still can't recruit. please help!

[Byg]

I only just noticed your post. I'm usually here. Did you sort it? If not I need to know which BGR version you were playing in which mod. Did you install yourself or use a mod that already contains BGR?

There are no outstanding bugs at the moment in any version as long as you have latest patch (only required for BGRIII users who used SS6.1 installer)..