Byg's Grim Reality - Supply and Command (BGRIII, BGR IV & BGRIV Enhanced)

[The Border Reiver]

Byg - you know I love your mod - and if you include the above things you're thinking of for SS5 then i'll love it even more! It would make the game so fantastic with just auto-resolve on battles - because the campaign would be so interesting!

Oh - and a PS: Thanks to your 2.1 and the medimod I am playing it in, I am a little stymied at what to do because of the way the AI has gone about defending itself both in Scotland and France! They have units of a size I have to worry about within any town I am considering to strike! The way the French troops move around also keep me guessing as to what their intentions - I have also noticed how the traits movement is more pronounced based on what you are doing with your General, so all in all, at around 100 turns, your 2.1 is doing the business!

I actually agree with uk_john...although I didn't use it with SS5, but with DarthMod....your mod is fantastic and will PM you about adding it to my mod at some stage.

Looking forward to seeing the changes you have made since the last version!

[uk_john]

@Reiksmarshal I thought SS 5.1b had everything from Kingdoms that Retrofit_1_0 brought to the vanilla MTW2 game? I know I get the oil and the battle AI options, etc! Happy Holidays by the way to all!

[uk_john]

Byg. PointBlank has told me your mod only changes the Export_Distr_Units file and you said the installer only adds to files if they exist, not replace them. I can see theat the above E_D_U file is headed as an RR + RC 1.4 file, but I would like to know how I find out your data has been added to confirm both mods are okay? Maybe you can install RR then your mod and look at the E_D_U file and let me know, as you would know what to look for!

I just know that either you or Point Blank should confirm that both mods are fully present when installing RR and then GR III?! I have even suggested to PB that you two should get together and merge these mods making them one fantastic combination!

By the way, I installed RR then successfully used your installer version of beta III.

[Byg]

Byg. PointBlank has told me your mod only changes the Export_Distr_Units file and you said the installer only adds to files if they exist, not replace them. I can see theat the above E_D_U file is headed as an RR + RC 1.4 file, but I would like to know how I find out your data has been added to confirm both mods are okay? Maybe you can install RR then your mod and look at the E_D_U file and let me know, as you would know what to look for!

I just know that either you or Point Blank should confirm that both mods are fully present when installing RR and then GR III?! I have even suggested to PB that you two should get together and merge these mods making them one fantastic combination!

By the way, I installed RR then successfully used your installer version of beta III.

It changes lots of files but the EDU is the only one we both have.
You can see the changes by looking at a general's (for example) mental stat in the EDU:
This is standard SS5.1, same for RR

stat_mental      13, normal, trained

Mine will have a different value depending on what number you enter in the morale modifier (it adds the amount you enter to what is sees is already there), which is your choice. (This effectively makes all morale values relatively closer, lengthening battles, causing more casualties, making routing require more skill)

Normally 2 mods sharing the same file are not going to work, but as BGRIII changes the content it will work with anything, potentially, as long as it does its thing last.

PB and I do communicate frequently to ensure compatability etc, but a user may not want both mods, so this way there is choice.

[uk_john]

Byg, I will check the EDU, but as to combining the mods, I meant making that combo a third mod choice, not to replace the two current mods!

EDIT: My EDU says:

"stat_mental 8, normal, trained"

And I do not understand what you mean by 'entering a different number in the morale modifier' is this a window I should see or a program i should have or something? because I do not know what the morale modifier is. Sorry if I have missed something obvious...!

[Byg]

Hi,

Perhaps you installed without seeing it, so your setting should be 10 by default. 7 or 8 is probably better, but not essential.
Here's a picture of the installer to remind you.

Are you sure that your "stat_mental 8, normal, trained" entry is from a general's bodyguard ?

[uk_john]

@Byg, I thought that window was asking where to install the mod, so yea, I missed it! I uninstalled the mod and reinstalled it and this time noticed the morale modifier, although I don't know enough about the mechanics (I just play the game! ) of the game to know what the number would mean and how changing it would mean!

A note to people that have to uninstall your mod and has the RR mod; before you reinstall the GR III mod, reinstall the RR mod, if you just reinstall the GR mod the game will crash on start up. So the method should be:

Install RR then GR III Beta.

Then, if you need to uninstall GR III (say for a GR update) do the following:

Uninstall GR III, reinstall RR, reinstall GR

[Borsook]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the supply system work via traits? If so only armies led by a General, not a captain are affected, right? Doesn't this undermine a bit the logic of the idea (adding realism)?

[Byg]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the supply system work via traits? If so only armies led by a General, not a captain are affected, right? Doesn't this undermine a bit the logic of the idea (adding realism)?

Think of captains as relying wholly on pillaging and becoming more unruly in the process, being without a proper commander. Generally they will just be batches of recruits on the way to meet and join their general.

Captained armies may rebel without warning leaving you in a very difficult situation if you have few armies. With the generals at least you can see by their loyalty level how reliable they are.

In the later versions I've added more code to help those low rank led armies to rebel even more.

So no I don't think it undermines the logic of the idea. Low rank captains were not allowed to command armies and had not the logistics to do so. Too much of a threat to the king for him to allow such people to command formiddable armies.

Take a look here

You can see that all noted leaders of armies were either kings, heirs or senior generals. I have encouraged that to be the case in the game.

[Borsook]

Think of captains as relying wholly on pillaging and becoming more unruly in the process, being without a proper commander.

Captained armies may rebel without warning leaving you in a very difficult situation if you have few armies.

In the later versions I've added more code to help those low rank led armies to rebel even more.

So no I don't think it undermines the logic of the idea.

Take a look here

You can see that all noted leaders of armies were either kings, heirs or senior generals. I have encoureged that to be the case in the game.

Ok, the rebelling of commanderless armies changes it for the better. Anyway I'm not an expert but would it be possible to tie the supply system to the number of units in the army? 1 unit should be easier to supply than 12...

[Byg]

Ok, the rebelling of commanderless armies changes it for the better. Anyway I'm not an expert but would it be possible to tie the supply system to the number of units in the army? 1 unit should be easier to supply than 12...

The thing is that the game coding gives us no exact reference to numbers. Presumably that's because numbers change if you are using huge unit settings rather than small.

So I think of the supplies being the x amount required for a y sized army, as that is all that can be done. I've been using supplies for a couple of years and they feel right in practice. It's a compromise like everything else in the game.

Supposing it were possible to give different amounts of supplies to different sized armies, imagine the complexity of the code that would constantly have to reevaluate the proportions of supplies that would have to be redistributed if say an army split into smaller groups or small groups came together. You cannot test for such things, but if you could it would not be worth it for the effect.

[Methoz]

only for SS4/5 - DLV ?

[Byg]

only for SS4/5 - DLV ?

2.1 and III can be used in any mod (just don't use the supplied world folder), but you wont get the recruitment effects used in III as the code needs to specify units and settlements. You will stil get the messages etc about which generals can recruit, but it wont happen. All the other effects are there though.

The new versions can only be used with DLV if you first remove all of my traits that are currently in DLV. I must do that sometime, it doesn't take long.

However, we (Nerazzurri is coding it) are testing a new installer that modders can use to make the recruitment code for any mod as easily as possible. Perhaps in hours, rather than the weeks the Stainless Steel Version took.

[Byg]

BGRIII Latest Version is now available. Upgrade from BGRIII beta or install into your copy of Stainless Steel or your modded copy of Stainless Steel below:

Join the BGRIII forum and download here:
http://www.nerazzurri.net/bgr-forum/viewtopic.php?t=57

If you are not using stainless steel mod, but would like to use BGRIII with any other mod please inquire in the BGRIII testers forum (The link is in my signature).

[Douchebag]

does this work for BC mod?:hmmm:

[nerazzurri]

You'll need to setup the recruitment system manually because there's currently no predefined settings for it but it should work fine.

[captainbloodloss]

I would like to know how to get this to work with Darthmod please.

[Byg]

It's a simple process to adapt BGRIII to any mod, but it will/may take time depending on what you want to do.

First, read the install instructions on the bgrIII testers forum HERE and about the mod, either HERE or on the first page of this thread on this forum so that you understand the principle. Then read on below.

Instead of loading up the .bgr file when the instructions tell you to, just edit the recruitment list yourself.

Select the mod directory you want to install into in the browse window.

Click on the limited recruitment button.

It's a question of going through the list and ticking who should have recruitment of each unit in the list.

Ticking captain means everyone will always be able to recruit that unit.

General means all generals and War Councillors can recruit that unit

War council means only war councillors can recruit that unit.

When done or at any time during, just click export to save the file. You can import it again to finish it or just before you install.

Don't click install unitil your list is finished.

If you do use the stainless steel .bgr file with another mod it will select all the units that are common to SS5.1 and your mod and set them for you the same as SS5.1 and will highlight any that have not been set that your mod introduces. (I have not yet tried this feature)

Don't select any mercenary only units as anything other than captain.

Units selected as general or war council will be subject to the religious AOR and all the other recruitment traits.

Will put up a decent tutorial sometime.

[captainbloodloss]

Ok, I did all that and the installer will not install. It says "could not install, check install log."

[nerazzurri]

The log is in your temp directory (enter %temp% in the address bar of a Windows Explorer window). It will give details of why it failed.