Suicidal Generals?

**Pearce1982** · July 01, 2007, 10:07 PM

Have any of the rest of you noticed generals who decide to be the first ones to charge the lines of your legion? I had mentioned in the "How did you kill Hannibal" thread that he basically charged into the front and was autofired to death by all my Hastati and Principes. Well it has happened with at least two more generals, charging up to the line and being the ones auto-targeted by my legions.

I've tried to avoid this, but trying to time it so that my legions auto-fire on the charging masses and not the general just isn't worth it. All those pilum kills can really help to soften up both the enemy numbers and morale.

So like I said Hannibal took hundreds of pilum along with a few Greek and Carthaginian Generals...have any of you had this happen?

**tai4ji2x** · July 01, 2007, 10:15 PM

blame CA... again...

it's been a problem since STW back in 2001. kinda pathetic. probably still happens in MTW2, i'm guessing.

**lt1956** · July 02, 2007, 12:40 AM

Basically it happens when the AI thinks it can attack you, this happens sometimes in my games but NOT all the time, so it must be the way you deploy or the type of units you use? Because I really dont have an issue, infact the Generals in SPQR usually stay back a charge in the middle of the battle but even then sometimes they dont. I have fought many battles to have the general leave the field. lol

So I would suggest trying different formations and see what triggers the suicide charges, I know it is effected by formations and troop types.

Lt

**Pearce1982** · July 02, 2007, 01:40 AM

Well it doesn't always happen, and I am playing by house rules or very close to them as far as my unit types go per legion. With Hannibal I remember I actually had almost my entire legion concealed by forest, so to the AI all it saw were two vulnerable units of Slingers out front attacking it's units and my General way in the back. That makes sense, still didn't expect to have Hannibal himself come running up.

The other situations I don't know what happened, I almost always run Hastatii up front, then Principes, then Triarii, with Calvary (to include General) and whatever missile units I have. Only difference being in Africa pre-Marus I have one Legion who has been steadily pushing West fighting conflict after conflict against Carthage, the wear and tear has left them primarily with Hastatii and mercenaries, I think I only have 1 unit of Triarii, and 2 of Principes. I know by house rules I should try not to use many mercs, but at the moment it's kind of hard not to. I plan on restoring that legion's roman troops asap though.

*On a side note, when does the Marian Reform kick in? I think I'm at around 185-182 BC. If my history serves it happened around 113 BC? But I've never payed attention to when it happened in RTW.

**jegui** · July 02, 2007, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by Pearce1982

*On a side note, when does the Marian Reform kick in? I think I'm at around 185-182 BC. If my history serves it happened around 113 BC? But I've never payed attention to when it happened in RTW.

Marian Reforms happen whenever you build an imperial palace in any Italian or Sicilian/Corsican city. It is NOT tied to any specific date. It happens when and if you want it to happen

You can either hang on until 113 BC or build it asap provided you have the imperial palace built

**Pearce1982** · July 02, 2007, 06:46 AM

Awesome, thanks for the heads up!

**24Gamer** · July 03, 2007, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Pearce1982

I think I'm at around 185-182 BC. If my history serves it happened around 113 BC?

Marian Reforms happened round 107 BC historically...

**jackwei** · July 03, 2007, 11:57 AM

talking about sucidal it has happened several times like the my reinforcement generals keep on attacking spearmen and getting killed i remember when one time he attacked a spearmen of Spartans from the front and got killed idiot. oh yes and not long ago he attacked armoured spearmen from the front too, which was silly oh well i guess the only good thing i am looking forward in MTWII: Kingdoms is when u can control reinforcements.

**lt1956** · July 04, 2007, 03:35 AM

What good is that when all the units are 150men or less. lol

**jackwei** · July 04, 2007, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by lt1956

What good is that when all the units are 150men or less. lol

it is strange that when your fighting a hard fought decisive battle and your allied general does something stupid sometimes i fear the worst whether the allied troops will away or sometimes it was a general you worked very hard to get some good traits and he dies stupidly. sometimes you wish you were there you tell him to stay with you or just give him a slap and say stay there, don't charge just stay where you are.

**Pearce1982** · July 04, 2007, 05:09 AM

Yeah I am to the point that anytime I have the opportunity to have reinforcements assist, I just remove the general from the stack. Because when the AI takes over, he will do exactly what you just said, charge spearman from the front or just be the first unit to charge right into the middle of the entire enemy army. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!

**lt1956** · July 04, 2007, 05:13 AM

Wierd because I RARELY Fight 2 legion battles more are 1-2 ai ARMIES against me. just dont keep your legions close together, but if you do then thats life sometimes generals do stupid things and get killed. Thats the fun, the Random things of real life!

In Real life if your Wife leaves you, you cant just reload and try again like nothing happened, same if you made a bad investment, you cant reload and get your money back. If anything Video games have conditioned people NOT to handle the real world and instead Give up or quite at the first sign of trouble. Also it seems humans in general Complain more than they did back then, again, products we are of our environment.

**The Sundance Kid** · July 04, 2007, 05:14 AM

perhaps the AI thinks that your general will win because in comparison to your troops he is a very high-powered unit, and it doesn't take unit size or being missile weapons into account. I love the AI, its like playing snakes and ladders against a blind 3-yr-old.

**jegui** · July 04, 2007, 05:28 AM

I dont understand what is the issue with reinforcements and suicidal generals... Just click and unclick the reinforcement box before entering the battle... VOILA the reinforcement legion and its general will be under your control and waiting for some of your units to withdraw before they send them in

I sometimes position two legions together to act as a deterrent and if they der to attack me I only use one legion and manage my reinforcements on first come first serve basis

**Pearce1982** · July 04, 2007, 06:04 AM

It's not a problem guy, we're just discussing their seemingly complete lack of intelligence and/or tactics when left to their own devices.

I think Melboy brings up a good point though. The general unit is heavily armored, puts out a lot of damage and is very hard individually to kill. The computer may not factor that he's charging into an entire legion, only that against those troops individually he's a powerhouse.

**jackwei** · July 04, 2007, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Pearce1982

It's not a problem guy, we're just discussing their seemingly complete lack of intelligence and/or tactics when left to their own devices.

I think Melboy brings up a good point though. The general unit is heavily armored, puts out a lot of damage and is very hard individually to kill. The computer may not factor that he's charging into an entire legion, only that against those troops individually he's a powerhouse.

however if the general units tries to attack Spartans his dead in a matter of seconds.

**Pearce1982** · July 04, 2007, 10:35 AM

Or for that matter if he decides to charge stacks of roman hastatii, principes, etc who will funnel every one of their pilum into him before he can breathe!