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  1. #1

    Default Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    One of the few things everyone can agree on is that NOBODY can agree on which factions to include in their ideal mod. Many people want to play the country that they are from, regardless of whether it ranked among the "major powers" of the age. In fact, the major powers changed a lot over 400 years -- factions that were important later may not have even existed in 1060. Many people want to create specialized campaigns, which again require a different collection of relevant factions. The problem is that adding factions is a huge pain, requiring a lot of editing.

    What I would like to suggest is a project to create a faction "library," a set of pre-packed "construction kits" that a modder can take "off the shelf" to add their desired factions one by one to their own mod. For each faction, there would be two things: (1) a collection of graphics files relevant to that mod, arranged in the right directory order and (2) a set of MSWord files for each txt data file to be changed, with the changes FOR THAT FACTION highlighted in red. The reason I say "MSWord" is because I don't think you can color-code notebook txt files. So essentially, a modder would have to go through each Word file and cut and paste the red sections into the data files. I'm not just talking about the base files to create the faction itself, but the unit, name, building, etc. files required to make the faction fully functional. The cut and paste job would probably be about an hour's work per faction, but a lot less time -- and a lot less error-prone -- than doing it from scratch.

    Now there are a few graphics files with shared data, such as the campaign map banners and the shield menu icons, where you'd have to add instructions on how to make changes, rather than just add new files. Also, the text for the descr_strat file could only be a base, because everyone will probably be using a different map and so will have to assign provinces and garrisons manually. And there are a few situations, like in battle_models, where you have to add up the total number of factions using a unit, which would depend on the modder and would have to be pointed out. But on there whole, you'd still be saving a ton of work.

    Obviously people could make further changes to that faction if they wanted, such as adding units or new banners or whatever. But the "library" would at least give you a working pre-fab foundation for your new faction without having to reinvent the wheel. It would also help the community identify areas where new skin sets are desired -- one of the frustrations of coming up with new factions is that the skins aren't always available, and nobody wants to design new skins just for your custom mod. In fact, I personally think there's a much more urgent need for skinners to work on new factions that don't have ANY skins yet rather than perfecting existing factions' skins. Sharing skins and other graphic resources would be a great way to consolidate efforts, while at the same time maximizing our ability to self-customize the game to our own tastes.

    A lot of the resources are already out there, they just need to be gathered and put in the right format. I think the "construction kit" approach is more productive than people putting out dozens of incompatible mini-mods. For instance, I'm not going to install the Flanders mini-mod. But a lot of excellent work went into it, and I'm sure there are lots of people who might consider adding the Flanders faction to their own mod. Right now they'd have to scavenge through the mini-mod and use the bits and pieces to try to reconstruct that faction from scratch -- and then, of course, ask for special permission if they ever wanted to release it. If that mini-mod could be packaged as a "construction kit" for adding that faction, I bet a lot of people would use it and credit the kit. Same goes for the Bohemia mini-mod, and lots of factions, such as the Teutonic Knights, that have already been added to much larger mods.

    Alternatively, maybe someone can design a faction-editing tool. But I suspect it will have to be pretty complex, and it would draw on the same resources anyway.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by vindex246; July 01, 2007 at 05:31 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    I think it would be great to have a 'Faction Construction Kit'

    In fact, I think it would be great to just have a 'Construction Kit' for your various needs and with a GUI. That would be so great. Like Importing textures, models... Changing unit stats, whatever...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    It's a really interesting idea.
    Um dia destes vou mudar a minha assinatura.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    I'm going to move ahead with this. The forum admins have been very encouraging, and if we get a team together and make some progress we can have our own forum. For now, a few thoughts:

    1) Anyone with a serious interest in pursuing this, please PM me. I would especially welcome anyone who has already put out a mod with new factions -- this would be the easier way to get a few "construction kits" up, since the bulk of the work has already been done. We will make sure that people are properly credited for the kits they help put together. If you would like to volunteer to lead or help with a particular faction kit (see below for tentative list), please indicate which faction in your PM to me.

    2) I've been looking over the tutorials and my impression is that this is a fairly complete list of the files that would need to be included in any "kit":

    Basic for adding loadable faction:
    descr_banners_new.xml
    descr_character.txt
    descr_lbc_db.txt
    descr_model_strat.txt
    descr_names.txt
    descr_offmap_models.txt
    descr_sm_factions.txt
    export_descr_buildings.txt
    export_descr_unit.txt
    campaign_descriptions.txt
    expanded.txt
    names.txt
    descr_win_conditions.txt
    descr_strat.txt

    For making faction fully functional with units:
    battle_models.modeldb
    export_units.txt
    export_descr_unit.txt

    Optional:
    export_descr_advice.txt
    export_descr_advice_enums.txt
    export_descr_advice_timing.txt
    factionintrosubtitles_lookup.txt
    export_advice.txt
    menu_english.txt
    prebattle_speeches_subtitles.txt
    campaign_script.txt
    descr_movies_tracks.xml

    Graphics:
    Skin textures for both shared and unique units
    Models for unique units
    Unit cards
    Battle banner texture
    Royal battle banner texture
    Faction emblem for inclusion in “symbols” tga files
    Texture (“banner_symbol”) and model for empty settlement banner
    Shield buttons (various different sets)
    Ui/faction_symbols files

    I'm still a bit hazy on how shield buttons are added to the game in all functional respects -- certain files seem tied to the start-up menu, while others (which seem like they may be on shared graphics templates) seem tied to the in-game console. Someone who has designed a mod that has successfully dealt with this issue could really help out here.

    If anything is being forgotten, or I'm making a mistake here, please tell me. We need to establish a kit checklist that is fully standardized.

    3) A tentative list of factions to be included. This is by no means restrictive -- the library should grow and grow. Feel free to add your own ideas.

    - Aragon
    - Bohemia
    - Teutonic Knights
    - Genoa
    - Pisa
    - Lithuanians
    - Novgorod
    - Flanders
    - Welfs/Guelphs
    - Luxembourg
    - Cumans
    - Serbians
    - Bulgarians
    - Ayyubids (Saladin)
    - Crusader States
    - Navarre
    - Sweden
    - Norway
    - Wales
    - Irish

    Obviously, when added to the vanilla factions this will add up to more than 31 -- the whole point of this exercise is to be able to mix and match flexibly. Not everyone has to like every selection, as long as there is a core group for each that is willing to help put together a kit or adapt it from their existing mod.

    It might also be possible to include faction "upgrades" -- kits that are designed not to add a new faction, but add additional units, skins, and other features to an existing one. In particular, this might be useful for the Saxons and Normans, who exist but are not fully developed for campaign purposes.
    Last edited by vindex246; July 01, 2007 at 09:23 PM.

  5. #5
    Civis
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Cape Cod, Massachusetts
    Posts
    172

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    I love this idea! I hate having to switch between mods and stuff.

  6. #6
    selenius4tsd's Avatar Happiness Is A Warm Gun
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    CT, South Africa.
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    1,707

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    Its ambitious, but the best of luck to you.
    Under the patronage of vikrant
    Patron of Ramtha, Alletun, finneys13, SirPaladin and GrnEyedDvl

  7. #7

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    Hi guys,

    I think I may be able to help here. I've been writing some shell scripts (in linux, but these shells can be ported to windows once you install cygwin on your windows box) that will enable a user to create a brand new faction in a matter of seconds. The whole thing is based on duke of serbia's original post on how to create a new faction from nothing , so the user will basically clone an existing faction. What this shell will do is to edit the files
    descr_banners_new.xml
    descr_character.txt
    descr_lbc_db.txt
    descr_model_strat.txt
    descr_names.txt
    descr_offmap_models.txt
    descr_sm_factions.txt
    export_descr_buildings.txt
    export_descr_unit.txt
    campaign_descriptions.txt
    expanded.txt
    names.txt
    descr_win_conditions.txt
    descr_strat.txt

    Later, the user will still have to fine tune some files like descr_sm_factions to change the colors of a faction, or names.txt to input brand new names, or expanded.txt to change the title of the faction leader etc...

    In a separate shell I am working the user will also be able to add any existing units to his faction (new or not). The shell will then edit the following files accordingly.
    battle_models.modeldb
    export_units.txt
    export_descr_unit.txt

    The down side of my approach is that you have to install cygwin on your computer, so that windows can emulate a linux environment and users will have to issue command lines as opposed to working with a GUI.
    Last edited by Cururu; July 02, 2007 at 10:33 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    this is definately a good idea

    @vindex246: if you want any help i can do some text editing and scripting.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    Cururu, any tool that can help automate all or part of the process would be excellent! It doesn't necessarily have to be incredibly user friendly to be a significant improvement over doing everything manually. I think anyone who is seriously willing to develop their own mod will take the time/effort to learn a tool that can reduce their workload AND reduce the error-rate from manual edits.

    As far as this being an ambitious project -- well, (1) that's why there's no way I'm doing all the work myself; we need people to "adopt" a faction of their choice and volunteer to gather and place all the files for a faction in the proper format, either for manual "cut and paste" entry or for a tool like Cururu describes, and (2) lots of work, true, but a consolidation of the tons of work each modder will do when separately adding factions to their own mod.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    vindex246,

    Here's a contribution, which I hope will make life easier for modders when dealing with adding units

  11. #11

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    like i said, i can do text editing but no art work so I'll take on doing .txt stuff for Teutonic Knights...

  12. #12

    Default Re: Proposal to Create a Faction "Library"

    Good, if ambitious idea. You might have some difficulty in getting modders to part with their creation (or at least the copyright, so to speak).

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