Hegemonia AAR [Self-invented!]

[Quinctius Cincinnatus]

Hi,

I hope Hegemonia Team won't mind that I will do some "AAR", on a mod that isn't released yet.
I am planning to do this to have something interesting to discuss about. And we will get a bit used to the new factions/map.

I hope it won't be as dumb as it sounds

1. The Faction

I think we should pick a Greek faction, as doing a barbaric one would be more boring, as we know them from other mods.
Suggestions:
City of Argos:
I think this is a great choice, because of the excellent location, and being one of the weaker factions, who are opposed to Sparta and Athena in the beggining!!

Shot

2. The Strategy

I know it will be hard. But we can try, no?
Suggest any ideas how to move this AAR.


3. Army composition

view the Argos faction preview here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48779

Argive Hoplites


The hoplites of Argos are not to be underestimated. A few decades before the starting date of hegemonia they were almost equal to the Spartans. The 300 finest Argives beat the 300 finest Spartans in a close battle for the Cynouria region. Actually 2 Argives survived the lethal battle but when they left the battlefield to bring the victorous news to their countrymen, a wounded Spartan recovered and by building a trophy from the weapons of the fallen Argives claimed the Argive victory to be a Spartan one! This controversy was followed by a new battle with the entire armies (at first the 2 sides agreed to bring only their finest hoplites to settle the difference over Cynouria to avoid a larger slaughter) in which the Argives were beaten. Since then the Spartans wore their famous long hair and the Argives cut their hair short as a sign of mourning.
As a result of the Spartan social and military reforms, the Argives lost their reputation of being the best hoplites of Peloponnesos, but are still great warriors, a considerable foe for any faction that will face the warriors behind the white shields!

Argive Epilektoi (Elite) Hoplites

The bulk of each citys army consists of citizens-hoplites who are not profesional soldiers save those of Sparta whose hoplites are lifetime warriors.
The city of Argos however, which already had quality in its hoplites, was one of the few cities which formed a professional corp of elite and chosen hoplites, fed and trained particularly for war with the cities public expenses
Argos ancient rival, Sparta, had grown intensily in power so the Argives had to make up new constitution for their city in order to successfully face the Spartans on battlefield
Since this constitution is rather early compared with the Spartan laws which had provided the city with a professional army for quite a time and also the fact the epilektoi are only numbered to 1000 while the Spartans homoioi are more numerous, the Argives epilektoi may not be proven an equal of the Spartan homoioi in battlefield, though they are a mighty force nevertheless
Thoykidides has recorded in his history the "epilektoi" taking part in a rather detailed description of a battle.
In the first battle of Mantineia in 418, the Argives and their allies faced a combined lacedaimonian and allied force consisting of the best hoplites of Korinthos,Arcadia,Boiotia and Megara along with Lacedaimonian homoioi,Brasidas veterans,elite skiritai and elite Tegians and was a larger force than that of the Argive-Mantinian and Athenian force
The Mantinian allies of Argos were placed on the right wing because the battle was taken place in their country and next to them the 1000 Argive epilektoi
When the formations collided, the epilektoi and the Mantinians routed the skiritai and the brasidian veterans, caused confusion in the enemy and surrounded the lakedaimonians faster than the right wing of the Spartan army consisting of Tegians and Lacedaimonians routed the outnumbered Athenian wing. The epilektoi chased down the enemy to the supply wagons and slayed the guards. However in the center of the line where the hippeis were fighing around the Spartan king Agis, the Lacedaimonians were badly defeating the normal Argive hoplites who routed along with allies from small cities. The athenian wing then found itself between two fires and the whole of the Argive formation was cut in two.Agis then ,seeing that the center and the left wing was secured sent the whole of his army (more than 4000) against the Mantinians and the Argive epilektoi who had defeated their opponents. Seeing the total of the enemy army advancing against them, they withdrew and many of the Mantinians were killed, however the epilektoi had very few losses
Later on time more Peloponnesians made similar constitutions of elite hoplites following the Argive example

Family Member Bodyguards

Family Member Bodyguards white shield variant



The elite-guard of the Argive generals consists of hoplites with the finest equipment and skills.

Gymnesioi Psiloi

The "gymnesioi" are a social class of public slaves equivalent to the helots of the spartans and the "penestai" of Thessaly, consisting of an archaic population which was subdued to the dorians and lost its freedom. As a result of Argos' gradual decline and the defeats it suffered from the Spartans, the gymnesioi took power in Argos, married the Argive women and became free men. However the women snobbed the former slaves and didnt bear many children, so the next generation of the Argives (the sons of the killed men in 494) managed to expel the gymnesioi from the city. Then the gymnesioi took posession of the neighboring city of Tyrins by force, and tried to recapture Argos city but failed and returned to the status of slave.
In war they follow their masters fighting as auxiliary/supporting psiloi troops, armed with clubs, stones and javelins. Their name most probably derives from "gymnes" (naked) that the greeks called the lightly armed soldiers (psiloi).

Argive Liberated Hoplites

In 494 BC the Spartans lead by king Kleomenes invaded Argolis and beat the Argive army. 6000 men, the biggest part of the Argive army was exterminated or disabled. The Argives then were forced to liberate a number of their gymnesioi in order to fill the ranks of their phalanx and help them overcome the crisis. Of course they are not the best of the hoplites available having little experience in that type of warfare and only the most basic equipement, but they form a cheap and numerous solution in times of need. The Argives also later on had offered the citizenship to the inhabitants of other neighboring cities of Argolis in some occasions after subduing them.

Epidauros Hoplites

I think we could make something out this.

Suggestions?


Quinctius Cincinnatus.

[Snevets]

Alright, now I'm confused. To start, why are you reposting our faction preview on Argos?. Second, aren't AAR's, not that I know much about them, written as a result of actually playing a campaign, being a story written about what actually happened? Will it be fun if you can just make up whatever you want? And third, what are you asking of the team in order to do this? We can't give you team access to work on fan fiction, or a copy of the beta because that just wouldn't be fair to everyone else. Not that I want to be a roadblock but maybe this should wait until a release?

[Lavastein]

yeah hes right...like...an aar is game screeny's and roleplaying. no fun without real combat

[Quinctius Cincinnatus]

I think we could behave like we are actually playing... maybe it is a bad idea. Just wanted some fun

[Daimon]

You have diffrent kind of AARS

Gameplay AAR's (Focus on gameplay)
Narritive AAR'S (Focus on dialoge and such)
Story Driven AAR's (With a story)
Picture AAR'S (Only pictures and allmost no text)
Music AAR's (Songtext)
History book AAR's (Reads like a Histroy book)

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...play.php?f=224 just look for examples there! It's a great AAR community and you see many diffrent kinds so..

And btw you can always make this a prologue! untill Hegemonia release there mod.

[Snevets]

Granted, but regardless of potential you would need screenshots of the game etc to fit your story line, which is alot to ask of us (we'd have to try to duplicate the turn of events you'd written, instead of a normal aar where you write based on the turn of events- since only the team has the ability to make screenshots).

[Sir Francis]

I think Cincinnatus was just trying to drum up some discussion, as things are fairly quiet around here these days.

For example, it might be interesting to look at general and abstract ideas of strategy for Argos and see where it leads.
Like: ok, you're stuck between a rock (Athens) and a hard place (Sparta). Perhaps making an alliance with one (both?!) is the way to go.

This idea might lead to questions about how the diplomacy will differ in Heg. compared to other mods.

Maybe an immediate attack on Sparta or Athens before they get too strong will work? This may lead to questions like: do cities in Heg. start with large walls or just a wimpy stick fence?

So, yes: how will diplomacy differ in Heg. compared to other mods?

Do cities in Heg. start with large walls or just a wimpy stick fence?

[Snevets]

Well sparta has no walls obviously, mother cities get the mud equivalent of a wooden wall but in reality without any siege technology it's as good as any (siege is the only real way, assaults aren't possible until the next level up, the trade off being that it's much easier to defend if the gates are opened by a spy -best way of dealing with the lower level walls- and it withstands a siege far longer). That aspect of things is open to suggestions though.

[Quinctius Cincinnatus]

Thanks Sir Francis. That is what I meant. Let's just talk about Hegomonia, cause it is so quiet in here.
Will Sparta and Athena be easy to take over in early-game? Will they have money scripted to make it harder?

Quinctius.

[genko]

well i was wondering what kind of changes have been made to the naval side of things if any

[Snevets]

More ships. Regional differentiation on ship quality via a variety of naval units. Depending on its level of naval emphasis a faction stars with either 30 or 50 oars (small ships common throughout the 7th and 6th centuries, where the game starts at the end of the later). It can then progressively build up to triremes and elite naval units for naval dependant factions- Carthage can recruit Phoencian triremes in Carthage, Athens can recruit Athenian triremes in Athens, etc. Further there are pirates available for recruitment in historically pirate infested areas, which serve as cheap or more experienced versions of 30 and 50 oars depending on the recruitment region. Further, Persia fields a variety of ships from the foremost naval nations described by Herodotus. Corinth's diolkos road also allows the transport of ships over land through the Isthmus, allowing the faction that controls Corinth to play hit and run with ships in the Sardonic gulf and to move its ships between the Aegean and the Gulf of Corinth. Thus although naval battles are impossible on the campaign map there is greater control over the navy to be found than in the original game.

[Quinctius Cincinnatus]

What is the exact purpose of having a huge navy? Is blockading other factions ports more lucrative than the expenditure for the ships?

Quinctius.

[mitchverr]

blocking ports and moving armies is the basic idea for using them, who ever controls the sea controls the trade and islands tbh, and can take any island and not fear of losing it again from an army landing on there doorstep

[Snevets]

Also since the map has alot of islands and water, sea-power means alot more. Naval invasions are common, so you can cause havoc with the Persian invasion or expansion of the Aegean powers by having a better navy. The former of course requires a really, really good navy...

[Quinctius Cincinnatus]

Can you stop the persian invasion by destroying their fleet?

Quinctius.

[Paul d]

i suppose so, the greeks stopped 2 of their armies that way.

near salamis, and near Cyprus

[Snevets]

If you destroy their fleet while an army is onboard you destroy the army of course. In terms of scripting a supply line situation, there's nothing actively in the works for that, although I've been thinking about it.