Generals experience gain ... is there any?

[notger]

Maybe it is just me, but my Generals never seem to get any experience. The get traits 'dislikes muslims' very quickly, but the traits 'proven commander' and the subsequent traits you get for winning battles are very rare. In fact, even a senior general with ten battles owns all his command stars due to the 'dislike'-traits and traits he had at coming of age.

Does anyone share my experience, is this intended or is it just bad luck?

(BTW: Yes, I often attack with small armies so that both armies have roughly the same size.)

[karo]

I have the smae problem here i never have a good general and they lose almost all their stars to leprocy most of the time

[DaVinci]

By default, this (generals and units exp gain) is a hardcoded thing.
I personally didn't check the traits and ancies as yet, in how far they have an impact here.
However in my SV battle playtesting, if i fight with my general himself, he (and naturally the bg's) always gains a lot exp points though if he was brave and slaughtered like crazy ... as well the other units.

[Konstantin Alexander]

I suppose Notger as well as Karo are talking about the Command-value of characters, not the fighting experience the bodyguard unit gains and which increase the attack/defense-values of the knights, that accompany the character.

These experience points are rather easy to gain, since the unit is far too large (which will change, at least for Sicilian Combat, after the implementation of the newest RC-version) und gets replenished for free and without the need to visit a castle, which often leads to them playing the role of a crossbow-bolts-bait. (While they should actually -guard- the general)

The Command stars are almost impossible to increase, i second that. I hated like it was in Vanilla, when a few victories against some rebel peasants sufficed to make an expert officer out of an drooling idiot, but this went a bit too far. I guess we would have to speak to the BB%B-team though.
As a side note: DLV is said to have a system which counts the men led into battle and the victories a certain general had and hereby allocates an possible increase of the command stars. That sounds good...well in theory at least. Never tested DLV so far, but perhaps SV would like to have a look at it.

[DaVinci]

Hmm, then the thread title is a bit misleading. I took it as 'Generals (unit) experience gain'. However, the 'command stars' are another case and are steered by the certain battle traits, yes.

Well, i battle-playtest based on the by me changed edu, where all general units have a decreased unit number (there is also a hardcoded thing in this relation traits&battles&unit numbers), and if they fight hard (and survive), they (or he the general) also get a command star or other interesting ancies (veteran warrior etc.), but depends just on the battle-outcome. However these battle traits codes are easy to change in the traits file. Afaik, SV hasn't had the time to review all the BB&B codes as yet, as we work on the campaign design in the whole at the moment.

I recommend to wait on the next version, and then these topics will be very interesting again to improve the SV build in this relation.

[Ermeni]

this is also a problem for me my generals almost never get command stars.....even though i win alot

[DaVinci]

Hmm, wait, never or almost never?

Perhaps, these certain traits don't have the faction (as SV has some added factions) in its code, then it wouldn't be a wonder, that they never get a star ... this would be a quick fix then, but i doubt these codes are made faction-wise. I'll take a look soon.

[Konstantin Alexander]

I think it is a general BB&B problem. With the usual factions the same difficulties pop up. So far i´ve tested the portugese, the HRE, the Turks and the Sicilians.
It´s always almost impossible to become a better general.

[Ermeni]

Hmm, wait, never or almost never?

honestly I'm not 100 sure but i would say never.....only command stars i get is the ones gained as faction leader, king of jerusalem and some more random stuff.....

Yes, i had a look. And besides the unhealthy penalties (leprosy etc.), i'll make something for command stars in general.
Btw., the main command stars codes aren't faction oriented, they are valid for all factions in the same wise.
And yes, all the new added factions haven't any consideration as yet ... i don't know if we will fix this already for SV 2.1, or in a patch or whatever, as this a lot copy and paiste and replacement job, and this is a bit ... annoying and time-consuming.

ok good

[DaVinci]

I worked over a bit nearly the whole traits file.

Example post battle:
If you will have a crushing victory or heroic, the character will get for sure a star now, as well troops morale will increase due to this. If you will loose such battles, you will as well loose stars and also troops morale.

Well, i didn't change the text file, so the stars will change and appear, and other traits properties will change, but in particular the appearing traits-text is another (i'm too lazy to change the text, some of the traits will just be hidden, ie. troops morale changes in particular are hidden now, however, in fact, very much of the character behavior has an impact on the troops morale now, Leprosy probability is decreased, but many other things as well amended to here and there a bit more realism).

And yes, all the new added factions haven't any consideration as yet ... i don't know if we will fix this already for SV 2.1, or in a patch or whatever, as this a lot copy and paiste and replacement job, and this is a bit ... annoying and time-consuming.

EDIT: Do not misunderstand this ... the most traits are valid for any faction in the game. But there is always a couple of traits that are faction steered, so only these have no consideration as yet for the new factions.


EDIT2: We have still to decide, if we will actually freeze now BB&B 2.0 traits, and work from there ... however, anyway we have to customise this file due to SV's factions. Well, you guys will see the decision with SV 2.1

[SicilianVespers]

I haven't added anything for the new factions to the BB&B files, so if these factions are never getting stars, this needs to be looked at.

[DaVinci]

Yes, i had a look. And besides the unhealthy penalties (leprosy etc.), i'll make something for command stars in general.
Btw., the main command stars codes aren't faction oriented, they are valid for all factions in the same wise.
And yes, all the new added factions haven't any consideration as yet ... i don't know if we will fix this already for SV 2.1, or in a patch or whatever, as this a lot copy and paiste and replacement job, and this is a bit ... annoying and time-consuming.

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

*drools*

Thanks for the tweaks!

[notger]

I have checked the triggers and the BB&B-guys have nerfed the trigger V0090 and the following, giving/taking command stars for battles.
With their settings, it takes about 60-70 battles fought with equal strenght to get your general to the highest level. I fear there are not enough foes around to fight that number of battles.

But since you said, you took care of this, you probably already saw that trigger.

[DaVinci]

Well, we recently decided to go with BBB traits and their updates (that means my tweaks within their work is trashed again). It would be too complicate to take every BBB update, and make it fitting again with our tweaks.

But we will create some new traits (and ancillaries) with the time. But at the moment we do not have the focus on that issue.

However, we will take care, that our new traits and ancies produce also command stars. Also, as for the leprosy high rate, i guess, they will adjust this to a better realistic reflection, as it is discussed within their forum.

[notger]

That is fine with me. Modding the old behaviour back in is a matter of minutes, so I can do that by myself.

Moreover, command stars are not that important. I always had the notion in my mind, that command stars added to the unit attack, but that was back in RTW. I remember reading somewhere, that now, they "only" add to the morale. That does not seem so important to me and off late, I enjoy chaotic battles with multiple routs more than the usual clean battles with 10:1 kill ratios.

[Greenstone11]

I find sometimes my generals have more stars than their traits indicate they should have, its like sometimes when they gain stars its done secretly without letting the player know?

[Konstantin Alexander]

There are some BB&B traits and titles that have especially long descriptions. I suppose the space for floating text boxes is limited (thank you again CA) and therefore not all modifiers are listed in the description, when the modders thought it more important to describe what the trait actually is about.

For instance take "disobeys his liege". It states: "The effects are numerous." But does not list them.

[nobel]

I had a piss poor faction leader with 9 Auth were there was supposed to be 2 :/ interesting.
but i have no trouble in getting my gens xp stars.

[notger]

I had a faction leader who had 10 authority points.
This was very astonishing, because he also had the trait 'mad' which costs you four authority points and he did not have many traits giving him authority.
I missed to make a list to check for inconsistencies, though. Now he is gone.