Kurds

[Sejanus]

I think inclusion of the Kurds is a must in this mod. They were often used by opposing sides, as they still are now, and recruited as mercenaries during the Middle Ages. Saladin himself was Kurdish as you know, and the region has always been rugged and resistant to invaders. The AOR System would be a perfect means of including Kurdistan, and it would be still better to make the region very rebellious.
I realize that the mod is nearing completion now, but I still think it should at least be considered for a future release. Not as a faction persay, but as mercenaries and rebels.

[Miraj]

We have some Kurdish and Kurdish influenced units. Like the Ayyubid Tawashi cavalry, which is supposed to represent elite Kurds serving Saladin. There is the standard Kurdish javelinmen unit in the abbasid roster too.

Do you have any specific suggestions for unit types?

Also Egypt has been changed to the "Ayyubid Sultanate" and its rulers will have mosly kurdish and arabic names. So in a way Egypt is a partially kurdish faction

[Ermeni]

I think inclusion of the Kurds is a must in this mod. They were often used by opposing sides, as they still are now, and recruited as mercenaries during the Middle Ages. Saladin himself was Kurdish as you know, and the region has always been rugged and resistant to invaders. The AOR System would be a perfect means of including Kurdistan, and it would be still better to make the region very rebellious.
I realize that the mod is nearing completion now, but I still think it should at least be considered for a future release. Not as a faction persay, but as mercenaries and rebels.

hi sejanus

as mirage said kurds are included... they are also a good addition to this mod!

are you a kurd?

[Sejanus]

I'm not a Kurd, but I am fascinated by Kurdish culture.

In terms of units, I think there is one kind that should be included. Kurds have always been famous for their skills are guerrillas, even in ancient times. In Xenophon's Anabasis, he and his Greek army pass through the region occupied at that time by Kurds (whom he calls "Kardukhoi" or "Carduchians"). They, fearing the destruction of their villages, attack his army immediately without even talking with them. Here are some parts from Anabasis that describe the Kurdish guerrillas:

At that instant a party of the Carduchians, who had collected, made an attack on the hindmost men, killing some and wounding others with stones and arrows--though it was quite a small body who attacked.

while the Carduchians kept many watch-fires blazing in a circle on the mountains, and kept each other in sight all round.

At one narrow place after another they came up quite close, pouring in volleys of arrows and slingstones, so that the Hellenes had no choice but to make sallies in pursuit and then again recoil, making but very little progress.

Now when the rearguard, so advancing, had reached a ravine which they must cross in order to strike up the steep, at that instant the barbarians began rolling down great boulders, each a wagon load (several ton weight), some larger, some smaller; against the rocks they crashed and splintered flying like slingstones in every direction--so that it was absolutely out of the question even to approach the entrance of the pass.

However, the enemy never ceased rolling down their stones all through the night, as was easy to infer from the booming sound.

The Greeks charge the Kurds in a mist:

with a loud cheer they rushed upon the fellows, who did not wait their coming, but left the road and made off; with the loss of only a few lives however, so nimble were they.

For a while, as the men scrambled up where each best could, the natives kept up a fire of arrows and darts, yet did not receive them at close quarters, but presently left the position in flight.

But when the Hellenes were close, the natives, to the astonishment of all, without a struggle deserted the knoll. It was conjectured that they had left their position from fear of being encircled and besieged, but the fact was that they, from their higher ground, had been able to see what was going on in the rear, and had all made off in this fashion to attack the rearguard.

all the people of the place had time to gather gradually, and the enemy (Kurds) formed; and as soon as the Hellenes began to descend from the mamelon to join the others where the troops were halted, on rushed the foe, in full force, with hue and cry. They reached the summit of the mamelon from which Xenophon was descending, and began rolling down crags.

The Greeks...

encountered considerable annoyance in their descent from the barbarians, who were so agile that they allowed them to come up quite close, before they turned back, and still escaped, partly no doubt because the only weapons they had to carry were bows and slings.

They were, moreover, excellent archers, using bows nearly three cubits long and arrows more than two cubits. When discharging the arrow, they draw the string by getting a purchase with the left foot planted 28 forward on the lower end of the bow. The arrows pierced through shield and cuirass, and the Hellenes, when they got hold of them, used them as javelins, fitting them to their thongs.

But when the Carduchians saw the rearguard so stript of the mass, and looking now like a mere handful of men, they advanced all the more quickly, singing certain songs the while.

armed well enough for mountain warfare, and with a view to sudden attack followed by speedy flight, they were not by any means sufficiently equipped for an engagement at close quarters.

Naturally the most apt comparison to be made is with modern Peshmerga ('those who face death') who used almost all of the same tactics. They, too, are lightly armed, mobile mountain fighters who can dissappear into the landscape. Even the description of fires and songs are identical to modern Peshmerga. Despite the fact that 2500 years have passed, it seems as though these guerrillas have always used the same tactics:

In the Bisitun inscription, Darius I also makes note of this battle tactic used by the Kurdish mountaineers against his forces. He called the guerrillas the kara (a cognate of guerrilla). 800 years later, King Ardashir, founder of the Persian Sasanian dynasty, faced the same defensive tactics by the Kurds. The term he used for them is jan-spar which has a meaning almost identical with the modern term,peshmerga.

-http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/kurdish/htdocs/his/orig.html


So the unit I am proposing is one that is lightly armed with bows and perhaps slings, highly mobile, even more annoying and evasive than horse archers. They should should make lots of noise (if possible), and attack lightly defended positions in small groups. I don't know how much of this can be done within the limits of the game, but these are elements that the warriors should ideally have. Perhaps they should also have a special ability to roll boulders down onto enemies if in the right terrain. However I don't think they should be recruitable. They should instead be naturally occurring rebels in the general Kurdistan region. Their primary purpose is to harass and aggravate the enemy. Even Xenophon says that the 7 days spent in the Kurdish region were worse than all of the defeats they had suffered prior.

I don't know what they should be called. I'm fairly certain Peshmerga is a term that first came into use in the early 20th century, however seeing the history it could have perhaps been used earlier. If anyone here knows Kurdish or knows any more about history, I'm sure they could offer more than I can.

EDIT:
Also, if anyone has any sources on the Kurds from Arab or other Medieval sources, I'm sure that would also be invaluable.

[Ahiga]

If/When we make the Zengids, we'll probably be able to make some distinctly and wholly Kurdish units, as the armies of the Atabeg of Mosul (And thus Nur Al-Din) seems to have used Kurds for their heavy cavalry.

If you have information on kurdish dress, or kurdish fighting units (I know they seem to have really been proficient and preferred the sword, and that they wore more armor than many bedouin or tribal arabs), that'll help us in the future.

[Ermeni]

I'm fairly certain Peshmerga is a term that first came into use in the early 20th century, however seeing the history it could have perhaps been used earlier

this is correct the kurdish term peshmerge was invented in the early 20th there are many theories of exactly when and by whom but it's agreed on sometime during the early 20th

Pesh =in front
= In front of death
merg= death

i speak Kurdish so if it's to any use then don't hesitate to ask

[jermagon]

EDIT:
Also, if anyone has any sources on the Kurds from Arab or other Medieval sources, I'm sure that would also be invaluable quote

The Kurds were a fierce warriors,thy served the sassanid empire,and when the early Muslim armies expand to Iraq,the Kurds resisted the Islamic armies,and they were very brave,during the late ummayed caliphate,the kurds began to convert to islam gradually,byt since they didn't serve in the ummayed army,because the ummayed only recruited arabs,and aslo they didn't serve in the early Abbasid army cuz persians and turkomans and Arabs served in this army,they didn't serve in Islamic armies till the Seljuks arrived to the middle east in the 11 century,the Kurds established small emirates in the 10 century called the marawanids in dyarbakr but this emirate was vassel to the fatemid caliphate

[AdmiringtheEnemyeh?]

Is it possible to include a Kurdish mercanary guild? Now that would just pwn; much more interesting than just Kurd mercanaries themselves. Probably it would only be buildable by the Ayyubid Sultanate, Zengids and Abbasids, but that would make it all the more interesting. It would be very similar to the crusader orders of Europe! The benifits that guild gives can be a wide range of things.

[Haqiq]

Maybe they can be like the Russian. Cheap, mobile and frinkinly stress when fighting them. Maybe unlike Russian Bowyar Son, Kurd should have a longbowmen in horse and tireless infantry.. More horse,less infantry. Should harass your troop like crazy in the game. Attack and rout out.