IF there were a Hegemonia 2, what factions would you like to see?

[Zenith Darksea]

This is a purely speculative thread to find out what sort of factions not already included in Hegemonia would be welcome to people in the event that a Hegemonia 2 were to be created (and of course it may or it may not be). This thread then should not be used to pester the team!

Here are the current Hegemonia factions:

The City of Athens
The Ionian League
The City of Croton

The city of Argos
The City of Corinth
The Locian cities
The Rhodian cities
The Cretan cities
The State of Lakedaimon (Sparta)
The city of Syracuse
The city of Taras

The Boeotian League (Thebes)
The Kingdom of Macedon
Thessaly

The Molossian Kingdom (Epirotes)
Illyrian Tribes

Thracian Tribes

The Persian Empire
Carthage

Etruscans
The Etruscan League

Now, if I were to add an extra ten, they would be:

1. Split Thracian Tribes into Bessoi and Odrysai
2. Split Ionian Cities into Samos and Chios
3. Sybaris
4. Mytilene
5. Thasos
6. Koinon Sikelion (an emerging rebel faction, perhaps?)
7. Naxos (the Aegean island)
8. Megara
9. Elis
10. Chalkis

[monkeyman]

Southern Balkans: i like the idea about Thrace, Zenith. Maybe these Paeonians I was reading about and maybe Byzantium

Italy:i would not add Rome but i would like there to be a central Italian power like the Samnites or the Umbri who were actually Italian powers at the time.

Greece: even though they were more of a second power, the Arcadians would be a sweet faction and would have a different fighting feel. I like the idea of Naxos

[Snevets]

If I did a Hegemonia II it would be on the peloponnesian wars and the emergence of Thebes so a great number of those factions would be outdated. I would definately have Elis though, not Megara; an Ionian split wouldn't make sense because as it is it representation of a league against Persia or the cities that revolted so having two separate leagues would just make them weaker- plus I doubt if having an ionian faction, except as an emergent one, would really be necessary; I agree with the Thracian split; Sybaris is silly for obvious reasons at that point in time. Rome would come under slightly more serious consideration, although I would still place the Samnites higher. Several of the peloponnesian leagues would be a must as emergent factions. Naxos doesn't make much sense to me, they never conquered an empire; the only reason would be to add a small thalossocracy to the Aegean. Not Byzantium. The Paeonians are already in the game, they don't get their own faction but they have several units to harass Macedon (to keep it from expanding like mad before Persia gets there, as did happen); I wouldn't think they'd need a faction though. Thasos has a pretty hoplite but I don't think that makes it faction worthy.

But can we at least finish Hegemonia before we start having to entire ideas of Hegemonia II? Most of us are going to need a long break from computers after this.

[Zenith Darksea]

Well, I was working on the assumption that the mod would begin in 516.

Thasos has a pretty hoplite but I don't think that makes it faction worthy.

No, but the fact that it had a very wealthy Thracian peraia and the fact that it held out in war against Athens for three years makes it faction worthy.

Actually, the reason I included the cities Samos, Chios, Mytilene, Naxos and Thasos was because these were the cities who continued to contribute their own navies to the Athenian Empire when all the other cities had switched to paying tribute - these cities were by far the most powerful of the Aegean states, and as the sieges of Thasos and Naxos showed, they were also rather independently-minded.

But can we at least finish Hegemonia before we start having to entire ideas of Hegemonia II?

I never said you couldn't, did I?

[Antonius]

I think that a Hegemonia II, 431 should also focus on Italy, italian tribes and peoples should, that is my humble wish, also be taken in account.

So, Rome too, please...

[Argyri]

How about keeping the "Hegemonia" but exchange the "City States" with "Diadochi"?

A mod like that could start at a time after Alexanders death and cover the time when his generals tried to win the hegemony over his empire. Analog to Persia in HCS there would be Rome in HD. Rome maybe could be scripted to appear as a threatening force soonest after the time of the second Punic War.

[Snevets]

Honestly I don't think you can justify making a faction out of anything that wasn't a major regional power or an expansionist nation. Thasos doesn't really qualify for either. I don't think the independent attitude of certain Ionian states under the Athenian empire makes them worth either- to represent that I would just have it under Athens' control, with a tendancy to revolt into an emergent faction, with the primary recruiting options naval based.

[Antonius]

I would not underestimate roman importance.

as early as the 5th century several contracts between rome and carthage, or rome and other powers and city-states indicate that roman influence and power was "internationally" recognised at a very early stage.

I am actually pretty surprised that it does not come up as an independent fraction in this mod... around 509...

as for a hypothetical hegemonia 2, set after the persian wars, not giving the city of rome (and other italian tribes, peoples, and city states) a fraction-status would be historically inaccurate...

[Pontifexus Maximus]

Festina lente! Firstly, let us see, what would Hegemonia 1 look like, if there would be such a mod soon at all

[Zenith Darksea]

Well Snevets, I think you'll find that by the standards of Greek city states at the time, Thasos was a major regional power in the Northern Aegean. With a substantial peraia incorporating considerable amounts of timber, gold and silver, and with an expansionistic colonial policy (not to mention a very powerful fleet and army), it easily rivalled the regional influence of Argos or Samos, for example.

[Snevets]

Again though Zenith can you really say that Thasos could ever have been in a position to conquer itself an empire? Wouldn't making a Thasos capable of rapidly expanding throughout Thrace and into Macedonia be historically inaccurate? That's what RTW factions do- they're designed to expand, as much as they can. Sparta, Argos, Corinth, Athens, they were always trying to obtain influence over new cities- so even if Thasos was a regional power comprable in its area to Argos in the peloponnese, I doubt it would be faction worthy.

I think the most interesting factions we could add to that time period would be the various leagues, to have shadow factions that could demonstrate firm alliances, always with the potential to split back up into various parent factions and independents.

[Baer]

I would like to see a start in the greek world. not cities but in the begining towns fighting each other. Of course lots of evolution in warfare untill the period say 15th century. Then you start with town states and every region is a faction. And then no rebels but rebel factions. I think a rebel faction town should also have the possiblility to turn back to the original faction.
I know the rome came up later but I think it is interesting to create a rome from the begining with very weak units. after some military evolution the troops are stronger than most greek troops.

Hegemonia II: start of days.

But I someone how likes to play from the begining till the end and don't start in truble but create it with my own enemies and allies. I think that was an idee behind RTW. No enemies no Allies and only two regions to control. survival as roman in a with world full of babarians trying to conquer your lands and at the end you will rule them.

As I said the start of days.

[Zenith Darksea]

Well, you're the ones with the modding experience, I suppose.

[Snevets]

Well if you put it that way Zenith I suppose I'll have to remember Thasos, it would balance things out some in that region afterall.

[Racer X]

If there's a Heg II... not that I'm expecting there is, I'd rather see it go back in time more rather than forward.

[thebigsalad]

Delian league would be a nice touch.

[Zenith Darksea]

Well, the Delian League would effectively just be the Athenian Empire. Actually, I quite like the idea of having emerging league and rebel factions.

[thebigsalad]

There needs to be a better system for vassal states to support leagues and such. I think that's one area of TW that needs fleshing out a bit.

[TheWayOfZen]

how about we finish hege 1 first......the faction i wanna
see is the one im playing

[Cymry]

thats what everyone want - including me