Poland should be threatened with ejection from the European Union

[removeduser_487563287433]

As you probably know vaguely, if you're an European, Poland is threatening to destroy the entire EU summit because it wants to lose no votes. Now Poland has demanded, and I wish, I wish so much that this was a joke, Poland has demanded that the amount of votes it has to reflect its losses in World War II from Nazi invasion.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1969332.ece

I am sorry, but putting dead people on the electoral register is fraud on a gross level. This statement is doubly disgusting as it is obviously meant to be a personal attack on the German leadership on the new proposals, which, I might add, had its own share of war deaths, along with almost every EU member state.

I am so appalled by this I would seriously consider ejecting Poland.

[Rex Invictus]

Do not not offend Poland, or any other country in them you're threat it like a single person. Every Democracy have multiple partys, and they arent always agreed with each other. I thik however that current president of Poland and his brother, and his whole party and most of the parties are "Dumb" and "Very Bad People" indeed.

[joerd9]

WTF? Do those twins know it's 2007? I might be wrong but it seems to me that ever since they're in charge in Warszaw, they are overly keen on - to keep it politely - teasing Germany. Whats this backward argumentation about, if not troublemaking? Besides, amends have been made big time! They've been paid reparations, just as we paid the russians, the czechs, the <insert name of occupied people here>, plus individual payments to forced labour people (although these came much too late). And I don't even dare to guess what we've paid Israel. Don't get me wrong: All those reparations are fine with me and justified imho, we did a whole lot of damage back then. But all this damage is no entitlement for keep on demanding and demanding.
It has to be good and done one day. There's only so much money in a country, you know.

Really, those Kaczynski twins are becoming more and more my personal most disliked world politicians. Although this has got something to do with the way they smile into cameras.

I better stop ...

Edit: Oh, and I'm really sorry for Angela. Must be like attending a kindergarden, middle group, in Brussels.

[Carach]

its an utter joke, if only the EU summit had people like me and ferrets in to tell them straight; "your havin a laugh!"

it is idiotic, and it wont go through. no matter how much poland ***** about it.

[Principe Alessandro]

As you probably know vaguely, if you're an European, Poland is threatening to destroy the entire EU summit because it wants to lose no votes. Now Poland has demanded, and I wish, I wish so much that this was a joke, Poland has demanded that the amount of votes it has to reflect its losses in World War II from Nazi invasion.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1969332.ece

I am sorry, but putting dead people on the electoral register is fraud on a gross level. This statement is doubly disgusting as it is obviously meant to be a personal attack on the German leadership on the new proposals, which, I might add, had its own share of war deaths, along with almost every EU member state.

I am so appalled by this I would seriously consider ejecting Poland.

I am accord with you, but also England, Denmark and Scandinavian nations, all the Balkanik and eastern Slavs nations (not for Hungary, Croats, Cezc Republic, Slovenia, this nations is needed to protect the eastern front from Russia and others Slavish nations and I hope not enter Turkey, BAN, BAN out from Europe this states, and England I hope that became the 51th state of USA.

[Carach]

and England I hope that became the 51th state of USA.

eh?

[joerd9]

Just for additional information (after surfing a bit):
the poles have made the proposal that instead of the total population of a country the square root of the total population of a country should be used as a base to determine the number of votes.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm the first one to admit that I'm a mathematical dimwit), but if one does so, the resulting values would have the same relation to eachother than the total pop numbers!?

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

Just for additional information (after surfing a bit):
the poles have made the proposal that instead of the total population of a country the square root of the total population of a country should be used as a base to determine the number of votes.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm the first one to admit that I'm a mathematical dimwit), but if one does so, the resulting values would have the same relation to eachother than the total pop numbers!?

Taking the square root would indeed change the ratio. Lets say for instance that I have 9 people in my country and you have 4. It is quite obvious that I have a greater than 2 to 1 population ratio against you. But if we take the square root I have 3 and you have 2. This is not the same as I now only have half again your number as opposed to more than twice the number.
Do you see it now dude?


Edit: On topic, this is a ridiculous position for Poland to take. In response Italy should claim the descendants of everyone the Romans ever subjegated. Just kidding by the way.

[joerd9]

Taking the square root would indeed change the ratio. Lets say for instance that I have 9 people in my country and you have 4. It is quite obvious that I have a greater than 2 to 1 population ratio against you. But if we take the square root I have 3 and you have 2. This is not the same as I now only have half again your number as opposed to more than twice the number.
Do you see it now dude?

Right, thanks.
As I said, I'm really bad at maths.

After reading a bit more on this square root system, it seems to be more just and levels out the sometimes huge differences in total pop a bit, while still maintaining the double majority rule. As far as I've read it was a proposal by a bunch of scientists back in 2004. Doesn't sound too bad actually.

@Foytaz: I don't think someone is condemning the whole country. People outside of Poland are well able to distinguish between a country and the actions of a - in most cases temporal - government. So don't feel offended.

[Holger Danske]

I don't get your point Alessandro. You want England to be the 51st state of the US? (Isreal has already taken that title)...

On topic: Poland went to far with those demands, if they don't back down they should be excluded.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well... at least if England became the 51st state the Democrats would be in power for a century...

[Principe Alessandro]

Yes to show definitely to England how better are USA than EU, England doesn't want Europe? Ok join United States of America and the question finish definitely.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I would rather not join either in any form of a federal state. No offense to either European states or the USA, but their political beliefs clash with British political beliefs. Join the USA and their is no garauntee our people will get free healthcare and our pensioners would be given a respectable allowance. Join Europe and our workers lose the freedom to be enterprising and rise from whatever position to the very top.

[cegorach]

As you probably know vaguely, if you're an European, Poland is threatening to destroy the entire EU summit because it wants to lose no votes.

Not really. The new voting system diminishes not only our power in the EU. As a medium sized country we are in an awkward position and simple double majority system would mean a domination of the biggest countries at our expense.

I am sorry, but putting dead people on the electoral register is fraud on a gross level. This statement is doubly disgusting as it is obviously meant to be a personal attack on the German leadership on the new proposals,

Precisely what it was. Our 'lovely' PM made another blunder - but maybe he considers this outright brutal tactic an effective one ? I believe so, but that will only make it harder to negotiate a favourable agreement.

I am so appalled by this I would seriously consider ejecting Poland.

Count to 10, please... I am disgusted by many actions, but what you are saying is an utter nonsense - half of the EU states would be ejected already.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Perhaps that's true, but if the EU is ever going to work it will need to do without damn idiot Prime Ministers such as this. This is appalling. A mockery of government and democracy.

[cegorach]

Perhaps that's true, but if the EU is ever going to work it will need to do without damn idiot Prime Ministers such as this. This is appalling. A mockery of government and democracy.

Even he do know he cannot do so - would be crucified back in Poland - his ratings are already very low.

It was a stupid blunder, idiotic rhetorical argument, but nothing more.

On the other hand the new/old (since right from the constitution rejected in France and the Netherlands) system is opposed by majority of our political parties (also in the opposition - most likely to win the next elections).
And appaling it WAS for sure.

[antares24]

As you probably know vaguely, if you're an European, Poland is threatening to destroy the entire EU summit because it wants to lose no votes. Now Poland has demanded, and I wish, I wish so much that this was a joke, Poland has demanded that the amount of votes it has to reflect its losses in World War II from Nazi invasion.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1969332.ece

I am sorry, but putting dead people on the electoral register is fraud on a gross level. This statement is doubly disgusting as it is obviously meant to be a personal attack on the German leadership on the new proposals, which, I might add, had its own share of war deaths, along with almost every EU member state.

I am so appalled by this I would seriously consider ejecting Poland.

heard of this today in the news, what the hell the poland government has in mind? This Eu summit has been considered crucial by everyone, France, Spain Italy and Germany and most of the smaller states agree with Merkel positions, the UK as always is trying to make things more difficult, but is just asking about some minor legal exceptions and it seems that an agreement is possible, and now suddently Poland menace to veto?? The day they start to be net contributer they will have more weight in the Eu, but now their gov. just have to accept that they don't have much power and let the summit go well, i would really start to menace them to reduce their funds, i really hate when stupid Prime ministers try to get something by causing troubles to everyone elses, this would only cause troubles to Poland's position

[KaerMorhen]

We come with right idea(except of course for all those bollocking about 2nd WW) but wrong people. The new voting system works for BIG ones and sucks for middle ones like Poland. Duck Twins & Co. are menace to our country but judging whole country for actions of few is childish at least. People of Poland in their majority are sick and tired of Ducks actions and they'll show that in next elections -presidential/parliamental. Being so hasty in your judgements make you similar to those you want to 'penalized'.

[antares24]

We come with right idea(except of course for all those bollocking about 2nd WW) but wrong people. The new voting system works for BIG ones and sucks for middle ones like Poland.

apart form the ww2 proposal that is so ridicoulos that the Polish gov. should be ashamed of it, what do you expect, that Poland has the same voting power as, for example, France? the current voting system (quoted from the article the op posted) :

gives the four big member states – Germany France, Britain and Italy – 29 votes each, only marginally more than the next biggest, Spain and Poland, which have 27. Decisions require backing of 14 out of 27 mermber states and 74 per cent of the votes. Under this system, votes are not linked to population.

gives just two votes less than the major countries for Poland and Spain, and Spain, even if it's far richer than Poland isn't causing problems. The proposal of the Polish based on the square root of population will reduce the power of bigger states, why they should accept this? Poland government should understand what's it's place.

[cegorach]

The EU is about cooperation - not domination of the bigger states.


And don't speak about Spain - their current governemt is a shame too - though for almost opposite reasons than ours... They don't speak because they ... don't speak about anything recently...


Besides I wonder how those people who oppose Turkish membership will explain that it WILL have stronger voting power than Germany or France ?