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Thread: BGR-V 20150324. Byg's Grim Reality (Supply & Command Series): Guides, Updates & Optional Extras

  1. #141
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Thanks mate. It's amazing what runs through your head at 2:30am and your lying in bed wide awake

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  2. #142
    antares24's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    hello i wanted to ask if the latest version of Byg Grim is already in SS4, or if the SS4 is the older one and i have to install the new one, thanks
    Factum est illud, fieri infectum non potest

    "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldn’t even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back.” Heraclitus

  3. #143
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    You dont have to install anything if you have SS4

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  4. #144
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar Clivus View Post
    You dont have to install anything if you have SS4
    ok thanks
    Factum est illud, fieri infectum non potest

    "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldn’t even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back.” Heraclitus

  5. #145
    Byg's Avatar Read The Manual
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar Clivus View Post
    Byg, I had a thought last night while gripped by insomnia...what about some traits along the lines of:

    "Good Forager"
    - allows you to forage for longer without using supplies
    - perhaps rewarded for successful foraging on a campaign without using supplies
    -higher chance if the general has the Intelligent trait

    "Good Logistician"
    - the general has proven to be a master of logistics in the field
    - allows the general to take longer to deplete his army's supplies
    - rewarded for not using all supplies up before taking a settlement (or after 3 such campaigns etc)
    - can be used to combat the "bad logistician" trait - i.e. the general has learnt his lesson about running out of supplies.
    -higher chance if the general has the Intelligent trait
    Hi sir, I am away at the moment with limited computer access. Thanks for answering stuff in my absence.
    Foraging would be hard to ammend as the supplies system is immensely complicated. I need to sit in a darkened room for half a day just to reemerge myself in them before I make any adjustments.

    I do though already have plans for perhaps faction based (or now with your intelligence idea too) based ease of resupply. i.e. resupply in 1 turn instead of two as a good logistician bonus. I thought maybe faction with large regions could get a little boost.

    The problem in ammending supplies to a greater amount whilst in the field is that the explanation tells you what the standard supplies do on a turn by turn basis. I would need to write the entire supplies system traits again for any alteration regarding supplies lasting longer and being appropriately explained.

    It may be possible to knock back the supplies on hitting the 1/2 full mark to 1/4 full for example. I could then just leave the good logistician trait to explain this, but it seems a little messy an approach. I'll give it more thought.

    NEW BGR V 20150324! . . . . . . . .. . . .BGRIV_E

  6. #146

    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    2) If you don't want the Templars to be made extra hard and have a limited area of recruitment, use manual installation but omit the Buildings file and the Strat file. You can then use 1 year per turn or two as in the standard SS installation.
    Is there a way to change this in the SS4? I so will it mess up my current campaign. I had'nt expanded enough yet to catch onto this limitation in my current campaign, but I'd like to be able to get my good units anywhere i conquer........assuming I can survive egypts incursions..lol

    When small men attempt great enterprises, they always end by reducing them to the level of their mediocrity.
    * Napoleon I

  7. #147

    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Also, a suggestion for the next one. It's retinue though.

    Master Archer: Instructs archer units and helps maintain the equipment.

    I was reading a book about crecy earlier, and they mentioned old master archers who oversaw the training of the archers.

    When small men attempt great enterprises, they always end by reducing them to the level of their mediocrity.
    * Napoleon I

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Quote Originally Posted by Marine Hoplite View Post
    Is there a way to change this in the SS4? I so will it mess up my current campaign. I had'nt expanded enough yet to catch onto this limitation in my current campaign, but I'd like to be able to get my good units anywhere i conquer........assuming I can survive egypts incursions..lol
    Right. KK didn't put some stuff into stainless steel 4, so I should tell everyone here that any buidings text, strat and regions alterations from Grim Reality for SS3.2 are not in SS4 (to my knowledge).
    That means there are no restricted Area Of Recruitment changes in SS4.

    I will re-add them when I release my bolt-on version of Byg's Grim Reality 3 - The Scourge of God (unless a colleague does it before I do)



    Quote Originally Posted by Marine Hoplite View Post
    Also, a suggestion for the next one. It's retinue though.

    Master Archer: Instructs archer units and helps maintain the equipment.

    I was reading a book about crecy earlier, and they mentioned old master archers who oversaw the training of the archers.
    You'll be pleased to know that there is, last time i saw (I don't have the file to hand to check), a master archer trait already.

    NEW BGR V 20150324! . . . . . . . .. . . .BGRIV_E

  9. #149

    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Quote Originally Posted by Byg View Post
    You'll be pleased to know that there is, last time i saw (I don't have the file to hand to check), a master archer trait already.

    Hmmmmm, had'nt seen that yet. Although I have'nt been recruiting many archers yet as the templars. I was waiting to be able to get the good archers then I will probably start setting it up like I do when playing as england. A whole stack of almost all archers, with some heavy infantry to back it up and a light cav to chase routers and enemy archers. There's nothing sweeter than seeing a dozen units of retinue longbowmen simultaneously open up on a line of french knights.

    When small men attempt great enterprises, they always end by reducing them to the level of their mediocrity.
    * Napoleon I

  10. #150

    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    I've seen a Master Archer ancillary before...I don't remember what its benefits were, but its definitely there. Same picture as the Master of Assassins and various other ancillaries (guy in a blue hood, holding arrows)

    Edit: Yeps...just got him. +1 Command...I think he comes from Archery Range
    Last edited by DrunkNIrishMan; August 02, 2007 at 11:46 PM.

  11. #151
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Quote Originally Posted by Byg View Post
    Hi sir, I am away at the moment with limited computer access. Thanks for answering stuff in my absence.
    Foraging would be hard to ammend as the supplies system is immensely complicated. I need to sit in a darkened room for half a day just to reemerge myself in them before I make any adjustments.

    I do though already have plans for perhaps faction based (or now with your intelligence idea too) based ease of resupply. i.e. resupply in 1 turn instead of two as a good logistician bonus. I thought maybe faction with large regions could get a little boost.

    The problem in ammending supplies to a greater amount whilst in the field is that the explanation tells you what the standard supplies do on a turn by turn basis. I would need to write the entire supplies system traits again for any alteration regarding supplies lasting longer and being appropriately explained.

    It may be possible to knock back the supplies on hitting the 1/2 full mark to 1/4 full for example. I could then just leave the good logistician trait to explain this, but it seems a little messy an approach. I'll give it more thought.
    After I made those suggestions, I actually looked through the traits file to see how the supply system works, and yeah you're right it would be a bit tricky to implement what I suggested. I might take another look at it with my programming eyes (been a while since I used them ) and see if I can think of anything.

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  12. #152

    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Hi, I've been using this mod as part of SS4.0 and I wanted to give some feedback.

    First of all, I think it's a great idea overall, it certainly cuts down on armies going on decades long safaris, but I feel it needs some polishing.

    I've encountered several instances where my armies became essentially stranded and unable to move, I'm assuming because of the supply situation. This particulary seems to happen when I cross the bridge between gaza and alexandria, even if my general is still showing 75% supplies, my entire army becomes stuck on the bridge indeffinitely until the enemy attacks me or the entire army goes rebel. I've also had my generals become immobilized within my own territory for several turns. I can understand big penalties for running out of supplies, but if the army becomes completely stranded, how are they ever going to fix the situation? Also this seems to happen sometimes even when I have a substantial amount of supplies left.

    Also, I'm not familiar with any particular "sally exploit", but I find it annoying that a perfectly valid tactic is removed from my playbook because my general will become crippled if I use it. If a fast moving enemy army of roughly equal power to my garrison besieges a remote city and I dont have another army nearby then why shouldn't I be able to sally out?

    Another issue is that traveling with siege equipment is essentially out of the question unless your target city is very close to your staging point. The siege equipment slows down the army, thereby resulting in you running out of supplies before you can even set siege to a city. I would think that an army that has siege equipment with it would represent one that has had substantial preperation and a big supply train, and I wouldn't expect them to run out of supplies before they even reach the nearest enemy city. If you're already slowed down by wagons carring packed trebuchet's, then why not bring along some extra wagonloads of food as well.

    Anyway, I hope I dont sound too harsh. I like the idea overall, but I think it needs some refinement. Great work nontheless!
    Last edited by Denbushi; August 03, 2007 at 10:15 PM.

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar Clivus View Post
    After I made those suggestions, I actually looked through the traits file to see how the supply system works, and yeah you're right it would be a bit tricky to implement what I suggested. I might take another look at it with my programming eyes (been a while since I used them ) and see if I can think of anything.
    I thought of a simple way. A good forager simply gets supplies added at random (perhaps 1 in 4 chance) each time he begins fresh foraging. This seems a realistic approach because being efficient at foraging would sometimes squeeze more out of the population, but not always; the extra supplies may simply not be availble.

    So that could be done, but then I thought this in essence is a way of getting armies to march further with a given amount of supplies so the whole idea might be better and simpler if movement was increased (supplies effectively go further).

    Not sure which is best so I will pick one for the next release.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denbushi View Post
    Hi, I've been using this mod as part of SS4.0 and I wanted to give some feedback.

    First of all, I think it's a great idea overall, it certainly cuts down on armies going on decades long safaris, but I feel it needs some polishing.

    I've encountered several instances where my armies became essentially stranded and unable to move, I'm assuming because of the supply situation. This particulary seems to happen when I cross the bridge between gaza and alexandria, even if my general is still showing 75% supplies, my entire army becomes stuck on the bridge indeffinitely until the enemy attacks me or the entire army goes rebel. I've also had my generals become immobilized within my own territory for several turns. I can understand big penalties for running out of supplies, but if the army becomes completely stranded, how are they ever going to fix the situation? Also this seems to happen sometimes even when I have a substantial amount of supplies left.

    Also, I'm not familiar with any particular "sally exploit", but I find it annoying that a perfectly valid tactic is removed from my playbook because my general will become crippled if I use it. If a fast moving enemy army of roughly equal power to my garrison besieges a remote city and I dont have another army nearby then why shouldn't I be able to sally out?

    Another issue is that traveling with siege equipment is essentially out of the question unless your target city is very close to your staging point. The siege equipment slows down the army, thereby resulting in you running out of supplies before you can even set siege to a city. I would think that an army that has siege equipment with it would represent one that has had substantial preperation and a big supply train, and I wouldn't expect them to run out of supplies before they even reach the nearest enemy city. If you're already slowed down by wagons carring packed trebuchet's, then why not bring along some extra wagonloads of food as well.

    Anyway, I hope I dont sound too harsh. I like the idea overall, but I think it needs some refinement. Great work nontheless!
    Hi there, the first bit you mention has been sorted in hotfix 3 (see hotfix thread) for stainless steel 4 and will be further tweaked in the next release. It happens because there is less movement available in SS4 to soak up this movement loss.

    The sally exploit is that the ai is quite useless if you sally against it. March out of a side gate (or even carefully out of the front gate) and you can place your entire army behind the enemy and shoot them in the back. Or attack from the side and their battle line will remain at 90degrees to yours. It's a exploit so important that you cannot actually lose a city as things are, unless you want to or you make a mistake.
    However, as mentioned in this thread this trait is bugged and gives you it regardless of what action you take. The corrective code has already been submitted. This trait will be removed or diminished in either SS or BGR3, whichever comes first. I will try to provide a proper fix by sunday.

    The siege equipment thing is interesting. My personal preference is to leave this as is and perhaps make siege equipment follow on behind whilst the main army sets up the siege. Better still, make full use of your foraging facility. cross borders en route to your destination so as to raid multiple regions for forage. This way a region will not run out of foraging and your army wont need to use any supplies.

    NEW BGR V 20150324! . . . . . . . .. . . .BGRIV_E

  14. #154

    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Quote Originally Posted by Byg View Post
    The siege equipment thing is interesting. My personal preference is to leave this as is and perhaps make siege equipment follow on behind whilst the main army sets up the siege. Better still, make full use of your foraging facility. cross borders en route to your destination so as to raid multiple regions for forage. This way a region will not run out of foraging and your army wont need to use any supplies.
    This kind of defeats the purpose of using siege equipment, since the whole point is to be able to assault the walls immediately or very soon after you arrive at the enemy city. Presently, as I say, siege equipment is effectively limited to defensive use only. The only way I can see around this would be to send your army + siege equipment ahead, and when it's almost at the enemy city, bring your general up to join it, but that seems kind of cheesy to the point of nearly being an exploit, since theoretically the army is the one with the supplies, not the general. But due to the restrictions of your mod, the general essentially IS the supply train, and army with no general has infinite supplies.

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Well, siege equipment did slow armies down and a slower army would use more supplies. A lot of armies in medieval times survived on foraging alone and ran into terrible trouble and often had to abandon sieges.

    I think an army that wanted to make a quick unexpected siege would not do so encumbered with siege equipment. Some armies used to even abandon their own heavy equipment (shields etc) to march on ahead to surprise and take an enemy city.

    I could add more supplies or movement so that any army slow down would be countered, but then armies without siege equipment would be super fast and where would be the challenge? As I say, currently you have the option to make your journey via clever foraging.

    There is something in what you say, but what would be preferable?

    NEW BGR V 20150324! . . . . . . . .. . . .BGRIV_E

  16. #156

    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Hope all's going well with the new version

    Quick questions,

    1. Why influence?

    Level Four_Spectacular_Monuments
    Description Four_Spectacular_Monuments_desc
    EffectsDescription Four_Spectacular_Monuments_effects_desc
    Threshold 4
    Effect Influence 2
    Effect TroopMorale 2

    2. Have you though about duplicating the supply triggers, but with an added condition of IsCrusade, so reducing this effect on crusades.

    3. All the supply triggers only effect the player, yes

    To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer.
    Paul Ehrlich

  17. #157
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Hope all's going well with the new version

    Quick questions,

    1. Why influence?

    Level Four_Spectacular_Monuments
    Description Four_Spectacular_Monuments_desc
    EffectsDescription Four_Spectacular_Monuments_effects_desc
    Threshold 4
    Effect Influence 2
    Effect TroopMorale 2

    2. Have you though about duplicating the supply triggers, but with an added condition of IsCrusade, so reducing this effect on crusades.

    3. All the supply triggers only effect the player, yes
    Good evening Mr Quark

    I will coat my hat in ketchup and eat it on this very forum if any player ever gets 4 spectacular monuments without cheating.
    It was influence when I first wrote those traits for rome total war and left them as is because I believe infulence still works in M2TW.
    You may mean simply why does he gain influence for monuments? If so then with all these monuments being erected in his honor he has become a more famous and influential citizen.

    I could do the crusade thing if you think enough people want it or there are good grounds for doing so.
    I made no exception for crusades because I had King Richard I (as well as Napoleon and others) in mind when I wrote the supplies traits. He famously used supply ships and was successful due to his excellent command of logistics. Some other crusades floundered and were even attacked en route to their destination because they foraged too heavily in neutral territory.
    If you are finding any territory unreachable even with excellent planning then let me know and I will change it.

    All the supply triggers only affect the player.

    NEW BGR V 20150324! . . . . . . . .. . . .BGRIV_E

  18. #158

    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Influence: It was more along the lines of is not Influence only for diplomats, Authority for generals/kings.

    Crusades/Jihads: I was thinking of Bagdad

    A hat you say, well now I have a goal.

    To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer.
    Paul Ehrlich

  19. #159
    Byg's Avatar Read The Manual
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    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Influence: It was more along the lines of is not Influence only for diplomats, Authority for generals/kings.

    Crusades/Jihads: I was thinking of Bagdad

    A hat you say, well now I have a goal.
    Bagdad wont be easy, but I still reckon you can take it without running out of supplies, just rmember to use your foraging skills and the taking will be so much more rewarding. That's what I reckon anyway.

    If you have a saved game where you don't reckon you can't make it, send it to me and I'll see if I can (preferably at the point before you start losing supplies).

    This is so much what I always wanted of this game, that is people discussing how something may be achieved because of its difficulty rather than having to discuss how to make the game more challenging.

    The hat challenge may yet prove to be my undoing. I wonder what the hat eating record is...

    NEW BGR V 20150324! . . . . . . . .. . . .BGRIV_E

  20. #160

    Default Re: Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (Updated Details)

    Byzantium is my first game, so will be a while before testing in campaign.

    I was just museing really, and Bagdad would be the farthest from the coast and would have 'enemy' terriority all the way, say for a Moorish player who had shipped to near Antioch. So if it can be done there, I thought it could be done anywhere.

    Next game may be turks, as I require a small army with horse archers to have clear victories, where kill >50 and odds <1, alot of times, bring on those rebels.
    Last edited by Quark; August 05, 2007 at 05:28 PM.

    To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer.
    Paul Ehrlich

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