BGR-V 20150324. Byg's Grim Reality (Supply & Command Series): Guides, Updates & Optional Extras

[Byg]

Boofhead - You asked about the traits for RTW. They were mostly adapted while I was using RTW. I have a version I used for myself which was compatible to SPQR 6.1. It restricted recruitment to Roman Legion producing cities only and in order to recuperate in a foreign town you had to demilitarise it by destroying barracks stables etc. I can't really release it though because the maker of SPQR may not like it and I think he has a newer version and I would be obliged to support it.

There is one thing that needs to be mentioned with the export_descr_buildings.txt I think it is much better to have a wall take 8 turns to build...BUT an Inn taking 5??
Certain things are spot on...other things just take too long to build...council chambers taking 5 turns? too much...
Things like huge stone walls should take forever...but simple buildings should definitely be easier...
Also the costs need some balancing...

I'm using the standard 1 turn per year building times from stainless steel.

how did you get the first new major victory? For some strange reasons, for me, when i get a 400 man win against 600 it's still a clear victory -_-

Major Victory requires a Heroic Victory and you must have killed more than 50% of the enemy to prevent you gaining too much glory from simply routing and chasing down an unarmed enemy. I can't alter how the game confers a heroic victory - I'm using that standard, but it's not just about numbers. You probably had a stronger army though it was smaller.

[Mike13531]

well yes, mine is stronger, but.. i don't get it, i have less men, and i completely destroyed their entire army, so can you be more specific with how to gain a heroic victory?

[Byg]

well yes, mine is stronger, but.. i don't get it, i have less men, and i completely destroyed their entire army, so can you be more specific with how to gain a heroic victory?

I asked about Heroic Victories a lot before I referred to them in this mod. I was never answered in detail as I guess this is hard coded, (correct me if I'm wrong anyone) but it seems that you must beat a stronger army to get one. It may even require that you don't sustain too many losses yourself, I'm not sure. In any event you need to have the weaker army, which you haven't. I'll let you know if I find out more.

[Mike13531]

alright man, thanks in advance

[Byg]

alright man, thanks in advance

3 minutes in advance as it turns out. I found the original answer to my original question all those years ago.

"A Heroic victory is where you cause many enemy casualties, while suffering relatively few losses; and the enemy had a higher force (red/blue force bar) at the start of the battle. OR you cause many enemy casualties and suffer NO casualties yourself, regardless of the force bar reading. Otherwise, what would have been a Heroic victory will become a Clear one. Sometimes you will hear "Crushing" victory at the end of the game. This means Heroic victory; but if you don't meet the requisite conditions, the official end gate stat sheet will show "Clear" victory.

Sorry, if you were looking for exact numbers, I do not know them."

[Mike13531]

oh, i don't need that exact, that's a lot byg. stupid CA 0 casualty, hardly possible

[Byg]

oh, i don't need that exact, that's a lot byg. stupid CA 0 casualty, hardly possible

Well you don't need 0 casualties, that's just way of getting a heroic victory as I read it. I've never had 0 casualties. In my current Templar campaign I have a general with 6 Major victories. Actually he's the one in the screenshot.

[King Kong]

Hi Byg,

Thanks for the clarification!

The AI does gain healing ability from the year in which you install the trait.

Does this mean this trait starts at a certain year and not from the beginning?

Yes, the AI is not affected by the years in action trait - though it could be if you wanted. Not sure which you prefer in your question.

Nice!.. because actually I think it is a good thing not giving the AI bad traits, since it is probably not able to "heal" them...
On the other side (and this is what I actually wanted to say) I would like it when the AI units occasionally could gain some morale through your script...

The AI does not gain a morale boost at the begining via traits. The overconfidence trait takes care of excess human command though.

This is great!

One more question though: it shouldn't make a problem to install the traits without the EDU and EDB changes and with a 2 years per turn game?

Can't wait to try it...

[Byg]

Hi Byg,

Thanks for the clarification!

Does this mean this trait starts at a certain year and not from the beginning?

Nice!.. because actually I think it is a good thing not giving the AI bad traits, since it is probably not able to "heal" them...
On the other side (and this is what I actually wanted to say) I would like it when the AI units occasionally could gain some morale through your script...

This is great!

One more question though: it shouldn't make a problem to install the traits without the EDU and EDB changes and with a 2 years per turn game?

Can't wait to try it...

I meant that if you install the traits before you start your campaign they will start at the begining, but if you install the traits into your game at mid-campaign at say turn 200, then they will start then. I was a little ambiguous there.

You asked - "One more question though: it shouldn't make a problem to install the traits without the EDU and EDB changes and with a 2 years per turn game?"

The main disadvantage of a 2 years per turn game is really just that your generals and family members don't live for so many turns. You get less chance to develop them and love them.
The effect in pactice if you did not alter the trait would be that troops would become merely weary after (Edit) 8 years in the field and not 4. The amount of actual turns would be the same of course.

(Personally I would like to see 12 turns per year with seasons and the game to be more about role playing your characters, but then you would have to compress the historical events into one or two lifetimes.)

The EDU changes are completely optional. I hope you get to try it though, before you discount it.

The EDB changes are like this for all the good units I wanted to restrict to the 5 cities or castles nearest Tortosa e.g:

recruit_pool "Dismounted Knights Templar" 1 0.34 3 0 requires factions { knights_templar, } and hidden_resource templar

The traits do not require this and are independent of these changes.

May I recommend that you add the resource "templar" to the 5 or six historical templar regions in the descr regions text in any event. They have no effect if you don't want to refer to them, but if you decide mid campaign that you may like to toughen the game up with a restricted recruitment building txt, you can without having to start a new campaign.

Actually, may I suggest that you add identifying resources for each faction to a few of their central cities so that you can add any area of recruitment updates you may decide to add in the future. Isn't it annoying to have to start a new campaign with every update?

[shaeffer]

Heya Byg

Er I might be wrong on this but I thought Generals aged at 6months a turn hardcoded irrespective of whether its 1 or 2 yrs per turn?

Thats what I was always led to believe anyway

[Byg]

Heya Byg

Er I might be wrong on this but I thought Generals aged at 6months a turn hardcoded irrespective of whether its 1 or 2 yrs per turn?

Thats what I was always led to believe anyway

That's great if true, even if unrealistic. anyone confirm?

[Byg]

Full Installation Installer Link:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WYSG4PQ8

Back up your existing Stainless Steel files first.

If you can't be bothered to make backups and you haven't made any other alterations to Stainless Steel's Units, Traits, Strat, Regions or Buildings files, then here are some ready made backups

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S38H8WG3

*Thanks to nerazzurri for the installer.*

[ME2_junky]

@Byg

REALLY? this is the same building tree??
I mean...it is really the same!!


I guess I really didn't like it after I thought about it some...

So if I give the matter some thought, I owe you an apology & also it means I totally like your mod without reservations!

About heroic victories
Usually I get heroic victories when a superior force with superior numbers attack me and I win through superior strategy. Usually when there are two armies attacking me & I gain control of a hill for good defense. Other than that I can't say either.

[Byg]

@Byg

REALLY? this is the same building tree??
I mean...it is really the same!!


I guess I really didn't like it after I thought about it some...

So if I give the matter some thought, I owe you an apology & also it means I totally like your mod without reservations!

About heroic victories
Usually I get heroic victories when a superior force with superior numbers attack me and I win through superior strategy. Usually when there are two armies attacking me & I gain control of a hill for good defense. Other than that I can't say either.

Excellent. A little praise make it all worth while.

It is the same. Though I'm sure you know that SS comes with 2 buildings txts, one for 2 years per turn (default) and one for 1 year per turn (which I use and prefer)

[King Kong]

Hi Byg,

Nice to hear that Nerazzurri has made an installer for your mod!
He's really a helpful guy!

That's great if true, even if unrealistic. anyone confirm?

yes, I can!
And one more question: From what I've seen the army "motivation" changes always in steps from 4 turns up to 16 turns where they will be totally unmotivated. So far this very good, however I doubt that many people would leave their army for such a long time in the field without putting them in any city to "heal" them. So don't you think that the time until the army motivation changes could be reduced to maybe 2 turns?

[Byg]

Hi Byg,

Nice to hear that Nerazzurri has made an installer for your mod!
He's really a helpful guy!

yes, I can!
And one more question: From what I've seen the army "motivation" changes always in steps from 4 turns up to 16 turns where they will be totally unmotivated. So far this very good, however I doubt that many people would leave their army for such a long time in the field without putting them in any city to "heal" them. So don't you think that the time until the army motivation changes could be reduced to maybe 2 turns?

It is possible to change it to 2 turns and I think it would be fairly easy (it's a complicated trait system).

Yes, it's true that people would be unlikely to leave their army in the field that long (up to 20 turns for mutinous) knowing the price they will pay, but before this trait I think we would have often led armies across the world even beyond 20 turns.

Now, suppose you march 4 turns into enemy territory, then spend 8 besieging...and then something goes wrong like you have to abandon the siege because a 2nd enemy army arrives.

Now you will be 3 levels into low morale, ie -6 and -1 command etc. (bearing in mind that I have other traits that may mean you only had 1 command to start with)

Even by this time you will have to think about whether you can stay there and fight before morale slips even lower, make a dash for home to fight another day or perhaps fight a smaller battle to pick up morale before you engage the now larger enemy forces.

Another time I dropped an army off on an island because of a large enemy fleet. I could not buy another fleet when that one was sunk though so my army stayed on the island for too long , lost morale, loyalty etc and rebelled.

Perhaps more people trying this mod could feedback here on whether they think the times should be altered. Meanwhile I will make one as you suggest so people can try both. Meanwhile read the next post because this may change your mind.

[Byg]

Shot at 2007-06-27


Shot at 2007-06-27

Will edit this post tomorrow to give more details. Then I would like opinions on how long supplies should last and where they can be replenished. Though I already have this worked out it can be altered better now rather than later. I'm tired.

[ME2_junky]

Well...if you play the Knights Templar with this mod you will see that you have a far more difficult time with Egypt...usally even rebel settlements provide difficulty. Large armies marching into enemy territory is something to be planned. I think the current time is just fine...
I do, however, suggest a little twist. Since no player will risk having troops rebel, why not add a randomiser? the more time passes the higher the chace the troops rebel, or perhaps introduce desertion?
So the player will not be able to predict, with absolute accuracy, when his army will rebel and or sufer desertion.

Typically it will take you some 4-5 turns to march into enemy territory, lay siege & conquer. Then you have to occupy lands until religious base is high enough, usuall some 5-10 turns depeding on the amount of priests.
Cleary if things do not go as planned the plot might thicken...

So I think that with some more random chance of desertion and or rebellion the timing is just fine.

@Byg
Update:
I think supplies are a great addition, but is it possible to add both a supply factor & a religious/enemy territory degradation factor at the same time?
As for supplies, the army should have supplies depedning on its distance from a city/castle. Without counting settlements under siege, the farther an army travels from a none sieged settlement the worse its situation becomes. Also, perhaps naval units can be factored in, such as in the crusades. The crusader armies were often re-supplied via ships.


P.S.

Allow me to go overboard and ask if there is a way to implement a system that has cities produce food by its agriculture/size & that would supply troops in the city and in hte region food based on the unused foot stat?

[Caesar Clivus]

@Byg
Update:
I think supplies are a great addition, but is it possible to add both a supply factor & a religious/enemy territory degradation factor at the same time?
As for supplies, the army should have supplies depedning on its distance from a city/castle. Without counting settlements under siege, the farther an army travels from a none sieged settlement the worse its situation becomes. Also, perhaps naval units can be factored in, such as in the crusades. The crusader armies were often re-supplied via ships.


P.S.

Allow me to go overboard and ask if there is a way to implement a system that has cities produce food by its agriculture/size & that would supply troops in the city and in hte region food based on the unused foot stat?

That sounds like an awesome idea!

@Byg: Quick question mate. What about when armies have built and are currently stationed in a fort? Does this have any effect on the loss of morale they experience?

Also, is this mod compatible with the files for CNP and UAI for SS?

Just thought of another quick question: what about armies in enemy territory that are led by captains and not generals?

[Byg]

Since no player will risk having troops rebel, why not add a randomiser? the more time passes the higher the chace the troops rebel, or perhaps introduce desertion?
So the player will not be able to predict, with absolute accuracy, when his army will rebel and or sufer desertion.

Typically it will take you some 4-5 turns to march into enemy territory, lay siege & conquer. Then you have to occupy lands until religious base is high enough, usuall some 5-10 turns depeding on the amount of priests.
Cleary if things do not go as planned the plot might thicken...

So I think that with some more random chance of desertion and or rebellion the timing is just fine.

@Byg
Update:
I think supplies are a great addition, but is it possible to add both a supply factor & a religious/enemy territory degradation factor at the same time?
As for supplies, the army should have supplies depedning on its distance from a city/castle. Without counting settlements under siege, the farther an army travels from a none sieged settlement the worse its situation becomes. Also, perhaps naval units can be factored in, such as in the crusades. The crusader armies were often re-supplied via ships.


P.S.

Allow me to go overboard and ask if there is a way to implement a system that has cities produce food by its agriculture/size & that would supply troops in the city and in hte region food based on the unused foot stat?

1) Right Sir, let me see. I prefered not having a random factor in morale drop because I always want the player to be able to do something about his situation. The random element is there, but it is in the enemies actions. Also, other traits are dealing out random factors. What if you're in enemy territory and your leader "offends the nobility". This general may be lost when before this event he would not have been.

(As a quick aside, in this minimod, your general has the option of quickly taking the city to make himself more resistant to being offended by the faction leader.)

That said, I think more loss of loyalty should be added before mutinous level. I will make the loyalty loss -1, -2 and -3 for the last 3 levels (12, 16 and 20 turns out of a settlement).

You may set out to take a settlement within a good morale level of 8 turns but if the enemy intercepts you, then you may need more time and have less morale than you expected. But because of the timed rather than random effect, the decision is yours about how to react.

2) "but is it possible to add both a supply factor & a religious/enemy territory degradation factor at the same time" - Yes, I have already done this. You cannot get suppliesin a city unless half that city's or castle's population supports your religion. They are uncooperative.

3) Desertion. You will find me having asked questions on how to implement gradual desertion all over the modding forums, but alas it isn't possible unless we have a scripting genius here amongst us. I'm not even sure if scripts can test for traits. I'll leave the rest of your questions cos I was going to address those anyway.

That sounds like an awesome idea!

@Byg: Quick question mate. What about when armies have built and are currently stationed in a fort? Does this have any effect on the loss of morale they experience?

Also, is this mod compatible with the files for CNP and UAI for SS?

Just thought of another quick question: what about armies in enemy territory that are led by captains and not generals?

Ah, the fort problem. I tried to do this, but I don't think traits can check if you are in a fort or not. If someone thinks they can then please let me know.
So currently the fort is the same as being in the field, but I'm not too bothered as building a fort would be too easy an option to save your army's morale.
Forts are a sanctuary for captained armies though. I have never seen one desert in a fort as they do in the open.
Using this minimod you often have to send large armies of captained reinforcements across long distances. Setting up a chain of forts prevents troop loss and I like the reality of this.

Compatibility with CNP and UAI for SS: MY mod alters character traits, strat, units, buildings and regions files.
I can't see why it should not be compatible given the aims of those mods, but check what files they use first.
If they use any the same, let me know and I'll adapt a version.

Captains in enemy territory as mentioned above are likely to get lost and rebel. This happens anyway as far as I can see. Probably my favourite feature of M2TW because it means you are encouraged to head armies with generals and therefore can influence armies with traits.