Urban Barracks

[dvk901]

I believe, once again, the harcoded crap in RTW concerning the 'core' buildings and the way cities grow has reared it's ugly head to bite me again. I'm picking up the immpression that the Urban Barracks is the building causing this CTD reported in the forum...which can be bypassed by not producing units in it. I had to nove it's availability to 'large_city' instead of 'huge_city' because the Imperial Palace NOT being available in a region (which is the case) causes it not to show up. I should've picked up on this before...that being, the tie between this barracks and the Imperial Palace....it shouldn't exist unless an Imperial palace is available.

I think this is why we have this CTD, whereas I have never heard of this in ANY other mod. So I'm going to have to change it. I haven't figured out how yet, but something has to change, because the old version of RS never did this.

[Squid]

I'm still convinced it has the do different experience levels at different levels of a building. People were talking about it happening with hippodrome and circus maximus which is definitely not the urban barracks.

[Squid]

I was thinking, why do we want all settlements to be able to build huge city buildings in settlements that can't become huge cities?

If it's to make sure certain units can be recruited in cities where you can't become huge, this can be done through recruitment lines can't it?

[rory o'kane]

because of DVk's changes to the happiness levels. you need those things to keep the miserable plebs happy.

[dvk901]

I was thinking, why do we want all settlements to be able to build huge city buildings in settlements that can't become huge cities?

If it's to make sure certain units can be recruited in cities where you can't become huge, this can be done through recruitment lines can't it?

I have removed all the experience from units except a few...and those don't change from level to level.

I also restored the barracks line to it's default.

I've been thinking also about the issue of large vs huge cities. The issue isn't that they don't become huge cities...because population wise, they do. It's just that they don't get the 'technical' huge city tag because there's no Imperial Palace to build. The problem is that the population keeps growing no matter what, and eventually you need the 'huge city' buildings to keep them happy. BUT, perhaps there's a way around this.....a population drop in a building you only build in those cities.

[Squid]

But if you can't build the highest level of buildings then you aren't going to be able to keep increasing population growth, sooner or later your settlement won't be able to grow anymore anyways.

[dvk901]

But if you can't build the highest level of buildings then you aren't going to be able to keep increasing population growth, sooner or later your settlement won't be able to grow anymore anyways.

Is it then, the happiness, health and law bonuses that not only make people happy, but 'increase' population growth aside from any bonuses? I've really never understood this crazy system. I have noticed that cities where an Imperial Palace can't be built basically seem to level off in the 20,000's population...whereas cities where you CAN build one (regardless of whether you do or not) will continue to get bigger...30,000, 40,000. Was that how the Metro Naval mod worked? Just limiting where you could build the core buildings?

If that's the case, then you're right, the upper level 'huge city' buildings wouldn't even be needed in a city that just stops at 'large city'.

[Squid]

Some bonuses do increase population growth as well as their inherint bonuses. The city health bonus I believe also gives a boost to population growth in addition to protecting against the plague. Farming_level also increases growth rate as well as trade income.

Hapiness and law bonuses don't increase population growth.

If you read frogbestegg's guide to RTW over at the org, the magic number is 8% population growth. Meaning that you shouldn't build any population growth bonuses that would take you over 8% because then your city will stop growing at 24,000 people (i.e. Huge City size).

[dvk901]

Well, I don't care if it stops. The only real reason for any pop growth at all is to feed the need for armies......but in RS, this is more important in certain regions than in others. I've even thought of limiting what can grow to a large city, but then it occurred to me that whatever city is in the region represents not the 'only' town\city..but just the largest. That's what will be nice about having the small towns in regions...giving a sense of a large city in a region with a number of small towns around it.

[Squid]

I'm not saying it has to stop just that it will stop because at a certain point squalor will not let a settlement continue to grow any more.

[dvk901]

Ah...so if you continually reduce squalor, it would continually grow. That's good to know, because the 'military base' regions tend to have a growth issue when it's the only place you can produce good units in.

[Squid]

Yes, but in reality you can't reduce squalor without building core_buildings and without certain traits and ancillaries, buildings can just mask/counter it with happiness and law bonuses.

[dvk901]

But don't 'health' buildings reduce squalor? I was thinking we could do what some other mods have done and 'split' the building tree for health buildings so you are presented with different paths to follow, building-wise. For example:

building health
{
levels sewers baths aqueduct communal_fountains city_plumbing column arch
{
sewers requires factions { barbarian, carthage, eastern, egyptian, greek_cities, romans_julii, romans_scipii, seleucid, thrace, macedon, numidia, romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level market trader or factions { britons, } and building_present_min_level market trader and hidden_resource gre
{
capability
{
population_health_bonus bonus 4
happiness_bonus bonus 5 requires factions { britons, }
}
construction 4
cost 4800
settlement_min large_town
upgrades
{
baths
}
}
baths requires factions { barbarian, carthage, eastern, egyptian, thrace, romans_scipii, romans_julii, numidia, macedon, seleucid, greek_cities, romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level market market or factions { britons, } and building_present_min_level market market and hidden_resource gre
{
capability
{
population_health_bonus bonus 5
happiness_bonus bonus 5 requires factions { britons, }
}
construction 5
cost 8600
settlement_min city
upgrades
{
aqueduct
}
}
aqueduct requires factions { barbarian, greek_cities, romans_julii, romans_scipii, seleucid, thrace, macedon, numidia, eastern, romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level market forum or factions { britons, } and building_present_min_level market forum and hidden_resource gre
{
capability
{
population_health_bonus bonus 6
happiness_bonus bonus 5 requires factions { britons, }
}
construction 6
cost 12800
settlement_min large_city
upgrades
{
communal_fountains
city_plumbing
}
}
communal_fountains requires factions { barbarian, greek_cities, romans_julii, romans_scipii, seleucid, thrace, macedon, numidia, eastern, romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level market great_forum or factions { britons, } and building_present_min_level market great_forum and hidden_resource gre
{
capability
{
population_health_bonus bonus 7
}
construction 7
cost 16800
settlement_min large_city
upgrades
{
column
}
}
city_plumbing requires factions { barbarian, greek_cities, romans_julii, romans_scipii, seleucid, thrace, macedon, numidia, eastern, romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level market great_forum and hidden_resource capitol or factions { britons, } and building_present_min_level market great_forum and hidden_resource gre
{
capability
{
population_health_bonus bonus 7
}
construction 8
cost 26800
settlement_min huge_city
upgrades
{
column
}
}
column requires factions { romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level port_buildings dockyard
{
capability
{
recruits_exp_bonus bonus 1 requires factions { roman, }
happiness_bonus bonus 2 requires factions { roman, }
law_bonus bonus 3 requires factions { roman, }
population_health_bonus bonus 7 requires factions { roman, }
happiness_bonus bonus -3 requires factions { barbarian, carthage, eastern, parthia, egypt, greek, }
trade_base_income_bonus bonus -3 requires factions { barbarian, carthage, eastern, parthia, egypt, greek, }
}
construction 1
cost 5600
settlement_min huge_city
upgrades
{
arch
}
}
arch requires factions { romans_brutii, }
{
capability
{
recruits_exp_bonus bonus 1 requires factions { roman, }
law_bonus bonus 3 requires factions { roman, }
population_health_bonus bonus 7 requires factions { roman, }
happiness_bonus bonus 3 requires factions { roman, }
trade_base_income_bonus bonus 1 requires factions { roman, } and hidden_resource pigs
happiness_bonus bonus -4 requires factions { barbarian, carthage, eastern, parthia, egypt, greek, }
trade_base_income_bonus bonus -4 requires factions { barbarian, carthage, eastern, parthia, egypt, greek, }
}
construction 2
cost 9800
settlement_min huge_city
upgrades
{
}
}
}
plugins
{
}
}

The 'double' upgrade at 'communal_fountains' and 'city_fountains' is supposed to allow an alternate building to be built, and could substitute for something in a smaller city that makes more sense than city plumbing...which was obviously only built in VERY large cities....of course, gotta get rid of those two on the end.