Ranking Factions in Rome: Total War

[Prince_of_Macedon]

I saw a comment of Severous where he talked about how some people grouped each faction in "baskets" (or "tiers" as I'll call them). He mentioned this in regards to Barbarian Invasion.

So I thought we should apply this to Rome: Total War (vanilla). Let's see how everyone ranks the factions. I'm going to give you my personal rankings, and then I'd like to hear what other people think.

Before you rank the factions, please tell us what you base your ranking system on by filling out the following Conditions...

1) whether or not your ranking pertains to Single-Player Campaign, Single-Player Custom Battle or Multi-player.

2) the denarii level that you're addressing

3) type of map (whether it be flat with minimal hiding places, a forest, etc)

* DISCLAIMER: for my rankings, I'm assuming that the experience-level is roughly equal for the person using each faction *

Since this is my thread, I'll go first!

CONDITIONS
1) I base my rankings on Multiplayer 1 vs 1's.
2) I play at 10,000 denarii
3) I'm assuming that the choice of map is flat with zero or minimal hiding places (i.e. Syrian Flats, Grassy Flatlands)

I'll divide the 20 factions by "Tiers."

TOP TIER FACTIONS
- Rome (Julii, Scipii, Brutii, SPQR)
- Egypt
- Seleucids

Criteria for Top Tier Factions: These factions can compete with Rome as equals in battle. Top Tier Factions can typically destroy a majority of Middle & Bottom Tier factions in battle.

MIDDLE TIER FACTIONS
- Carthage
- Britons
- Parthia
- Pontus
- Macedon
- Numidia
- Scythia
- Armenia
- Germania
- Dacia
- Greece

Criteria for Middle Tier Factions: These factions can compete with a majority of Middle Tier Factions in battle. Middle Tier Factions typically get owned by the Top Tier Factions. But they're a step above Bottom Tier Factions. I was hesitant about putting Greece in this tier because I think they're too one-dimensional. But after thinking about it some more, they really don't belong at the very bottom of the faction rankings.

BOTTOM TIER FACTIONS
- Gaul
- Spain
- Thrace

Criteria for Bottom Tier Factions: These factions get owned by Middle and Upper Tier Factions. Picking these factions for your online battle is the sign of a brave man/woman!

How would you rank these factions?

[Domitius]

I mostly agree to your rating, but with other experiances. I mostly play the single player campaign, and battles. I play on different terrain, but I've played as the most factions on the most of the maps.

About your ranking:
I like the top ranking except Britons, they have big problems with thier eceonomy and haven't got that impressing troops. Instead I would've chosen Macedon, with thier massive cavalry and good economic position.

In the middle tier I would've placed Britannia, and also the Greek cities, because of thier strategic and economic position. I would've lowered Numidia to the bottom position, because they have almost an impossible position for thier economics. As you see, my ranking is very dependant on the strategic/economic position and I wouldn't have ranked as this in multiplayer battles. But this is my campaign ranking, even if I don't think yours needed correction.

[polarbear297]

I mostly agree to your rating, but with other experiances. I mostly play the single player campaign, and battles. I play on different terrain, but I've played as the most factions on the most of the maps.

About your ranking:
I like the top ranking except Britons, they have big problems with thier eceonomy and haven't got that impressing troops. Instead I would've chosen Macedon, with thier massive cavalry and good economic position.

In the middle tier I would've placed Britannia, and also the Greek cities, because of thier strategic and economic position. I would've lowered Numidia to the bottom position, because they have almost an impossible position for thier economics. As you see, my ranking is very dependant on the strategic/economic position and I wouldn't have ranked as this in multiplayer battles. But this is my campaign ranking, even if I don't think yours needed correction.

i totally agree wth you

[_TubbZ_]

I would have ranked germania lower than you did and dacia higher, purely on your rules and money due to the lack of good archers that the germans can get on that money (dacia can get 8 good archers if you are palying 6 same, whereas germania struggles to afford them, leaving them to get uber skirmished).

I would leave the top lot where they are but would probably add carthage, they preform very well vs most factions and provide a good strong basis of inf for team games. I would also move greece up, tho they lack any form of cav worth taking they atleast have good inf (not spartans they cost too much) and also provide a good basis for inf in team games.

Greece also has some good missiles (cretans, merc slingers and normal archers, if you play without an archer max and your ally takes a good strog cav faction ie parthia then its a skirmish fest).

{VIVV}-TubbZ

[micromegas]

Hello,

I like your criteria and the your Tier system. By using the same criteria as you I would move Macedon into the top tier because they have the strongest phalanx units, combined with the cretan archers and pretty decent cavalry. I would keep Carthage in the middle tier, even though they are my personal favorite, simply because they don't have any archers and I think this puts them at a disadvantage.

Numidia I would put down to the bottom tier and move Greece up to the middle tier. I really don't think Numidia has any assets that you wouldn't be able to get a better version of with another faction.

Greece can be powerful if the other side is foolish enough not to bring enough cavalry or don't have strong cavalry.

I would relinquish Scythia to the bottom tier, I have seen their entire army route twice because the general got killed, they don't seem to have good moral.

So here is my rankings:
Top Tier
Rome
Brittania
Egypt
Seleucids
Macedon

Middle Tier
Carthage
Parthia
Pontus
Greece
Armenia
Germania

Bottom Tier
Scythia
Numidia
Gaul
Dacia
Spain
Thrace

Final note: does anyone else think that they made the Praetorians (cav and cohorts and urbans) too cheap in this game. Every time I play a Roman faction they stack up on them and the game becomes lopsided?

[Eccentric]

Hello,

I like your criteria and the your Tier system. By using the same criteria as you I would move Macedon into the top tier because they have the strongest phalanx units, combined with the cretan archers and pretty decent cavalry. I would keep Carthage in the middle tier, even though they are my personal favorite, simply because they don't have any archers and I think this puts them at a disadvantage.

Numidia I would put down to the bottom tier and move Greece up to the middle tier. I really don't think Numidia has any assets that you wouldn't be able to get a better version of with another faction.

Greece can be powerful if the other side is foolish enough not to bring enough cavalry or don't have strong cavalry.

I would relinquish Scythia to the bottom tier, I have seen their entire army route twice because the general got killed, they don't seem to have good moral.

So here is my rankings:
Top Tier
Rome
Brittania
Egypt
Seleucids
Macedon

Middle Tier
Carthage
Parthia
Pontus
Greece
Armenia
Germania

Bottom Tier
Scythia
Numidia
Gaul
Dacia
Spain
Thrace

Final note: does anyone else think that they made the Praetorians (cav and cohorts and urbans) too cheap in this game. Every time I play a Roman faction they stack up on them and the game becomes lopsided?

Dude, Macedon is in no way on the top tier, if any one else gets to top tier, imo it would be Carthage and/or Pontus, as for Carthage vs Macedon, well Carthage pwns them in every area except archers, but their elite slingers are awesome still, and Scythia is bad ass, leave em in middle imo, horse archers to decimate inf, maidens to kill cavalry, only problem is they have a hard time vs chariots.
As for chariots (which everyone knows pwn in mp(certainly main reason brittania is so good)), they put Egypt on top tier, and almost Pontus as well. I think Carthage does best against chariots, I've never lost to Egypt with them, Sacred band infantry(with upgraded armor if possible) plus slingers ftw

[hyperballa]

Dude, Macedon is in no way on the top tier, if any one else gets to top tier, imo it would be Carthage and/or Pontus, as for Carthage vs Macedon, well Carthage pwns them in every area except archers, but their elite slingers are awesome still, and Scythia is bad ass, leave em in middle imo, horse archers to decimate inf, maidens to kill cavalry, only problem is they have a hard time vs chariots.
As for chariots (which everyone knows pwn in mp(certainly main reason brittania is so good)), they put Egypt on top tier, and almost Pontus as well. I think Carthage does best against chariots, I've never lost to Egypt with them, Sacred band infantry(with upgraded armor if possible) plus slingers ftw

yay! someone who believes balearic slingers actually own
reason they are good is because they have more ammo than archers, so they can keep the barrage going longer. works best against greeks, because slinger own armor(armoured hoplites) and legions from the back.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Gaul is so pathetically weak, you placed them right. They have, however, a strong economy for a barbarian nation.

And Germania should be placed higher. Spear Warbands certainly aren't the most formidable phalanxes in the game, but they can be easily recruited from anywhere and are deadly against your close barbarian enemies. As long as you keep them tied together and put your generals on the flanks, they'll destroy everything on the way. And they won't suffer much from archers, because Germany gets a fair amount of cavalry in the beginning.

On the other hand, they're not very flexible like gallic warbands and are slow, but I find them better than those low quality warbands that run better than they fight.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Awesome, guys! I'm glad that we all have different perceptions on the rankings. But I think everyone agrees that Rome is top-dog!

I rank Scythia in the middle-tier group because Scythian Nobles have the strongest charge bonus in the game. Also, their Horse Archers are extremely deadly when used en masse. If the Scythian player spams mounted-cavalry, it's a very difficult opponent to fight. Scythia's good, but not good enough to be ranked as top-tier in my opinion.

The reason I rank the Macedonians in the middle-tier is because they typically get blown away by Rome's uber-units. Macedon wins only if its player is significantly better than the Roman player.

Originally Posted by micromegas

Final note: does anyone else think that they made the Praetorians (cav and cohorts and urbans) too cheap in this game. Every time I play a Roman faction they stack up on them and the game becomes lopsided?

Yes! Those Roman-loving game designers have really screwed most of the other factions!

I don't care about Rome having the best infantry in the game, but the best cavalry too??? That's extremely imbalanced in my opinion. They should either raise the cost of Praetorian Cavalry significantly or nuke them from the game altogether.

[Evan_2009]

any1 know some good tactics for britannia?

Mine:

S= swordsmen (chosen)
H= Headhurlers
L=light chariots
C=heavy chariots


LCCC SSSSSS CCCL
HHHHHH

thats with 10k.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

any1 know some good tactics for britannia?

Mine:

S= swordsmen (chosen)
H= Headhurlers
L=light chariots
C=heavy chariots


LCCC SSSSSS CCCL
HHHHHH

thats with 10k.

That looks pretty deadly.

Also, try reducing the amount of Swordsmen, and get more Headhurlers and Slingers.

[zedestroyer]

Awesome, guys! I'm glad that we all have different perceptions on the rankings. But I think everyone agrees that Rome is top-dog!

I rank Scythia in the middle-tier group because Scythian Nobles have the strongest charge bonus in the game. Also, their Horse Archers are extremely deadly when used en masse. If the Scythian player spams mounted-cavalry, it's a very difficult opponent to fight. Scythia's good, but not good enough to be ranked as top-tier in my opinion.

The reason I rank the Macedonians in the middle-tier is because they typically get blown away by Rome's uber-units. Macedon wins only if its player is significantly better than the Roman player.


Yes! Those Roman-loving game designers have really screwed most of the other factions!

I don't care about Rome having the best infantry in the game, but the best cavalry too??? That's extremely imbalanced in my opinion. They should either raise the cost of Praetorian Cavalry significantly or nuke them from the game altogether.

Just go to the export_descr_buildings.txt and delete the lines with:
praetorian cavalry
roman praetorian cohort urban i

And the Super Cavalry and the Fantasy Infantry units of the Romans are gone, making the game more balanced, you can also make praetorians available only in Italy and reduce the Roman archer auxillia range (Romans did not have god archers, Historically they hire mercenaries like Cretan archers).

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Just go to the export_descr_buildings.txt and delete the lines with:
praetorian cavalry
roman praetorian cohort urban i

And the Super Cavalry and the Fantasy Infantry units of the Romans are gone, making the game more balanced, you can also make praetorians available only in Italy and reduce the Roman archer auxillia range (Romans did not have god archers, Historically they hire mercenaries like Cretan archers).

I appreciate that!

The only problem is that I play this game online only. I don't think GameSpy would let me play any games if I deleted those units lol

But thanks.

[zedestroyer]

I appreciate that!

The only problem is that I play this game online only. I don't think GameSpy would let me play any games if I deleted those units lol

But thanks.

I can just make an agreement with the other player.

[micromegas]

I tried hosting a game online with a rule for max of 4 praetorian units (including cavalry, cohort and urbans). But no one liked the rule and I couldn't get the game to launch. I now host games with no romans as the only rule.

[bobadila]

i mostly agree but i think gaul and greece shud be middle tier

[Underoath]

I definitely think Greece should be middle tier. Once they get spartans they're really hard to beat.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Playing at 10k denarii limits Rome's strengths somewhat. It also reduces the risk of spamming. Outside of that, I don't like applying rules.

[DrwHem]

why is everyone giving carthage a middle rank when they are so strong? i played on vh vh and once you have the financial backing as carthage you can create a lethal army of their unique hoplites, and elephants. i conquored almost the whole world as carthage. the only problem is that the elephants must be shipped back to a region to be retrained and the cavalry is relatively weak unless used to flank an enemy.

[Muagan_ra]

why is everyone giving carthage a middle rank when they are so strong? i played on vh vh and once you have the financial backing as carthage you can create a lethal army of their unique hoplites, and elephants. i conquored almost the whole world as carthage. the only problem is that the elephants must be shipped back to a region to be retrained and the cavalry is relatively weak unless used to flank an enemy.

I think Carthaginian cavalry is the best around: I'm a big fan of Long Shield Cavalry - positioned and used correctly, they can take on any opponent. They don't have overpowering attack or defense, but they don't need to have, they have a solid profile that enables them to cause routs and handle themselves against most in melee.

And all of this for such an economical price? There are Sacred Band cavalry then, for when you need something more hardcore.

Carthage is very strong in Campaign, but they do have a pretty drastic problem of public order for a number of reasons; inadequate temple structures, the ridiculous pace of population growth, and the far-flung nature of their empire due to very large provinces in North Africa.

It can't help, either, to have the Romans nearby, and the unrealistic bias the AI gives them.