Scythian preview thread

[dvk901]

While you're correct, I see two reasons not to use the Greek levy unit:

- It's kinda plain looking.
- The Scythians seem to have been excellent slingers, while the Greeks weren't, so why would they levy Greek slingers when they had better slingers among their own population?

If you don't want to create a Scythian slinger, maybe a Getic/Thracian one could serve?

Same argument goes for the archer -- the Scythians were much better archers than the Greeks, so why would they levy Greek archers?

I agree...let's make the Scythians the dang Scythians. Both they and the Sarmatians were shortchanged bigtime by CA, and I don't know of ANY mod that really does them justice....except this one. I'd like to see people play them...but with their own beautiful units.

[cherryfunk]

We gotta have some plain looking units!

Nah, we don't. Let our mod be the bejewelled one!

Pharaoh is obviously egyptian, if your refering to the persians(which i think you are), they were known as shah of shah's (king of kings), so basically you should change pharaoh to shah.

It was the Egyptian one, they were threatening to invade Egypt and he offered them tribute:

Herodotus(3) narrates that the Scythians descended from the slopes of the Caucasus, battled the Medes who were pressing on Nineveh, and, moving southward, reached Palestine. There they were met by Psammetichos, the pharaoh, who for a long time tarried in Palestine.

Chapters 4-6 of the young Jeremiah are generally regarded as expressing the fear of the people of Palestine at the approach of the Scythian hordes. The prophet spoke of the evil that would come down from the north and a great destruction (4:6), of whole cities that would “flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen” (4:29), of “a mighty nation . . . whose language thou knowest not” (5:15). “Behold, a people cometh from the north country, and a great nation shall be raised from the sides of the earth” (6:22).

The Egyptian king, however, succeeded by persuasion in halting their advance toward Egypt. He, like the Scythians, was an ally of Assurbanipal. According to Herodotus, Psammetichos was besieging a city in Palestine when the Scythians reached that country.

http://www.varchive.org/tac/end.htm

[tone]

Finished - scythian slinger added:



Can I just get everyone to OK these units before we finalise the preview please? Any changes requested?

[cherryfunk]

tone, a few suggestions:

-- The foot skirmisher's boots are too bright for footwear.

-- The horse archer's tunic is the same color as his horse, could you give him something a bit more colorful?

-- The light cavalry would look great if he had that armored cumerbund thing like in this pic you posted:

[tone]

Here are the thumbs for 56k version.
I'll have a go at the changes you've suggested and update the images on page 1 and these thumbs if I change anything.

[dvk901]

Is there no way to make that Greek Archer look like a Scythian, rather than just another 'clone' Greek Archer. For one thing, I absolutely DISPISE that stupid cowboy hat they wear.

[cherryfunk]

tone, looking at that picture above reminds me that Osprey clearly states that every Scythian seemed to be a bowman. I think our mix of cavalry is a bit off; we have:

-- Nobles (lance and bow)
-- Medium Cav (lance and axe, or is it javelin and axe?)
-- Horse Archer (bow and spear)
-- Mounted Skirmisher (javelin and spear)
-- Light Cavalry (javelin and spear)

Given their fame as archers, I think we have too many mounted javelin units, not enough mounted archers. I think the current Horse Archer should get some better armor, and be a Medium Horse Archer, while the current Light Cavalry should become a Light Horse Archer. The Mounted Skirmisher can remain as is, possibly renamed to Light Cavalry.

[tone]

I hate you for saying it but I think you're probably right about too few archer units.

I'll have a look at the RTR sarmatian horse archer model too and see whether that'll work for the scythians - if it has a spear it would be two handed so not right for the scythians.

We could remove the "cowboy" bit from these Greek units. It can be removed by making it transparent.

[cherryfunk]

I'm not a big fan of the cowboy hat either...

[cherryfunk]

tone, here's what I think the overall unit roster might best look like:

Infantry
- Light foot archer
- Heavy foot archer/spearmen
- Foot peltast/skirmisher
- Foot slinger
- Foot spearman
- Foot Hoplite
- Foot Theraputicman

We've got all those done, with maybe some changes to the archer if you make them Scythian.

Cavalry
- Light cavalry skirmisher (javelin/spear, good for chasing down fleeing units)
- Light horse archer (bow/short sword, horrible in close combat)
- Medium horse archer (bow/spear, decent in close combat)
- Heavy horse archer (nobles, bow/spear or bow/axe)
- Medium cavalry (spear/axe)
- General

[dvk901]

I hate you for saying it but I think you're probably right about too few archer units.

I'll have a look at the RTR sarmatian horse archer model too and see whether that'll work for the scythians - if it has a spear it would be two handed so not right for the scythians.

We could remove the "cowboy" bit from these Greek units. It can be removed by making it transparent.

Well, just look in the 'Unique Building' thread and you'll see how he's messing with me......

[tone]

OK this skin will be used by the new light horse archer instead of being used for the mounted skirmisher:

The model will be shared with Sarmatia and Parthia too

[DR. Hobo. PHD.]

i noticed something in your description, you say
"What will become of the Scythians, the great horse lords who once received tribute from Pharaoh himself?"

Pharaoh is obviously egyptian, if your refering to the persians(which i think you are), they were known as shah of shah's (king of kings), so basically you should change pharaoh to shah.

no the pharaoh of egypt paid the scythians tribute to keep away from thier land.
btw i thought shah was a later term for the kings of islamic persia?

[rory o'kane]

it was. didnt the mongols kill one of them off by pouring molten gold down his throat? anyways, these scythians are AWESOME

[dvk901]

it was. didnt the mongols kill one of them off by pouring molten gold down his throat? anyways, these scythians are AWESOME

I think that was Cassius....the Roman general.

[pseudocaesar]

it was crassus, who they poured gold down his throat. as he was the richest roman.
also, i am correct in the persian king being called shah. if you read your herodotus and thucydides (i have literally devoured these books) you will know him as shah. aka, darius/xerxe's etc...all the famous persian kings that got their asses kicked by greeks, they are shah's.

[Drtad]

btw i thought shah was a later term for the kings of islamic persia?

No, shah in Persian for king. However, most of the Persian/Parthian kings used the title Shahanshah which means king of kings. However, the Armenian kings Tigranes II (95-55BC) and Artavasdes II (55-35BC) also used the title by defeating the Parthians in battle, and the Bagratuni kings of Armenia (885-1065) also used the title shahanshah since Persia, now under the rule of the Khwarezmians, only had the title shah for some reason.

[dvk901]

I guess that means, "No, you're right, Pseudo". .....(he says, confused)

[pseudocaesar]

, also. another point that should be addressed. all the greek units with wide brimmed hats shouldnt be wearing them, wide brimmed hats were macedonian cavalry hats if im not too mistaken, and they never wore them into battle.

[tone]

Interesting though - EB uses these hats on lots of their units and I'm sure they've done their research pretty well.