IDF planning attack on Gaza

[mrmouth]

"Incoming Defense Minister Ehud Barak is planning an attack on Gaza within weeks to crush Hamas, it was reported on Sunday morning.

Britain's Sunday Times quoted senior IDF sources as saying that the planned Gaza assault would require 20,000 troops to destroy the bulk of Hamas's military capability in a few days.

The raid would be triggered by Hamas rocket attacks or a resumption of suicide bombings, said the British newspaper."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

[TAG]

Its BS, In the Israeli media they were quite unhappy about this "false publishment"

[mrmouth]

They are unhappy it was leaked, or that its just plain nonsense??

You tell me, if Hamas starts launching sustained attacks against Israel, will Israel sit back and take it?

[TAG]

Its not leaked information, they talked about it in popular actually show.
They were disappointed about newspaper like Sunday Times publishing such information.

About the plan--such plan is always available, It is not hard to capture Gaza ... but what will Israel will do next ? no-one wants to occupy it.

[mrmouth]

Its not leaked information, they talked about it in popular actually show.
They were disappointed about newspaper like Sunday Times publishing such information.

Well that how it usually goes, somebody at the Pentagon for instance, will get too chatty with a reporter, it ends up in the papers, then on the television for all to debate.


Its completely feasible as you have eluded to, if Hamas turns their attention in mass against Israel, I cant see Israel not responding, and they would have every right to do so. Their goal would be to destroy Hamas's ability to launch rockets, not to hold Gaza for a extended period of time or enact some political change.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Disappointed about a paper publishing news. Well, I never, the nerve!

[TAG]

Disappointed about a paper publishing news. Well, I never, the nerve!

Disappointed about publishing false information as i stated before.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

[Valentin the II]

^
****ing LOL!

[Mathius]

Hmmm. Given the outcome of the IDFs summer holiday in Lebanon last year I'd be surprised if they were in the mood for more of the same in their own backyard. No military spokesman with a brain would start putting timescales of days on any such operation either.

[Shigawire]

I think the historical record and statistics might be in order here, to elucidate the reality of the situation, as there are a great number of misconceptions espoused in this thread.

Ehud Olmert's decision to go to war in Lebanon in response to abductions of soldiers was taken as early as March 2006, according to a leak of his evidence to the commission investigating the war.

The report means that the military strategy was decided more than three months before it was triggered by Hizbollah's abductions of two soldiers on Israel's northern border in July. Israeli officials said this was broadly in line with what the Prime Minister has already told the cabinet.

Mr Olmert partly used his appearance two weeks ago before the Winograd Commission to defend himself against charges that the government stumbled unprepared into the five-week war.

But the report will fuel claims by some international critics of the operation that Israel, and perhaps the US, had for some time decided in favour of a military confrontation with the Lebanese group.

The report, in Haaretz, also suggests that Mr Olmert was told in May that Lebanon was ready to enforce UN resolution 1559, which prescribed the disarming of Hizbollah in return for withdrawal from Shaba Farms, the border zone occupied by Israel which is projected as a casus belli by Hizbollah, but which is also claimed by Syria. It says he passed the message to President Bush, Tony Blair and President Jacques Chirac.

As usual, the Israeli leadership are interested in halting any political peace initiatives. In fact, that is what the term "The Peace Process" has come to mean. "The Peace Process" means working towards undercutting any political moves to real peace. This is an under-reported truism though, which is why it's not mentioned. But any serious study of the "peace process" can leave little doubt. The interesting timing of the attack simply serves to demonstrate a repeat of the pattern. The Lebanese government were announcing that they would enforce UN resolution 1559, and disarm the Hizbollah - Israel would have to withdraw from the Shaba farms. Historically, it seems the closer a political peace settlement is to succeed, the more trigger-happy the extremes on both sides get. The only people the Lebanese civilians hated more than Hizbollah was Israel. Thanks to the Israeli act of aggression, Hizbollah received a sudden surge of political support. Way to go Israel. As mentioned in the article, the operation/war-crime was planned 3 months in advance of the israeli soldiers' kidnapping. Israeli soldiers were patrolling areas not in their legal jurisdiction as they were kidnapped. Kidnapping Israeli soldiers, though certainly deplorable, happens all the time. Just as Israel imprisons masses of people. Israel was regularly hijacking ships in the international waters in transit between Lebanon and Cyprus, killing people and kidnapping others, taking them to Israel, either for interrogation or simply as hostages, keeping them in jail for years. Some people are still in jail without charges but that doesn't justify Palestinean hijackings or kidnappings, on the assumption - which I accept - that violence is not legitimate in retaliation against even worse atrocities or as preemption against future atrocities. U.S.-Israeli hijackings are not a part of the historical canon. Occasionally, you find a reference to them somewhere at the end of a small newspaper-column or something, but they are not part of the history of terrorism.
Kidnapping Israeli soldiers however, this is how Hizbollah and Hamas achieves leverage to free some of their own prisoners. The prisoner-ratio is still dramatically in favor of Israel though. Not to mention the death/kill ratio - but we'll return to that in a moment.

What did Israeli leadership say at the start of the operation?
"Israel's response will be restrained but very, very, very painful," -Olmert

Statistics and claims from Wikipedia (sourced statistics):

Hizbollah Dead:
~250 (Hezbollah claim)
≤500 (Lebanese officials' est.)
~500 (UN officials' est.)
~600 (IDF est.)
Captured: 13
LCP militia: Dead: 12
PFLP-GC militia: Dead: 2
Amal militia: Dead: 17

Lebanese civilians:
850 dead (claim by IDF)
1,191 dead (claim by Humanitarian Assistance to Lebanon)
4,409 injured

Israel Defense Forces:
Dead: 119
Injured: 400+
Captured: 2

Israeli civilians:
43 dead
1,489 injured


Though IDF is not exactly the most credible source of information, let's be generous and take their word for it and use their own numbers.

Civilians killed: 850 Lebanese - 43 Israelis
Soldiers killed: ~600 Hizbollah militia (IDF est.) - 119 Israelis

Military/Civilian ratio (the higher the better)
Hizbollah: 119 soldiers, 43 civilians = 2.767
IDF: 500 soldiers, 850 civilians = 0.588

Now, these numbers are of course anecdotal, as one would expect such ratios when one side is committing an act of aggression on the other's urban/suburban areas. The real issue is that a sovereign nation was yet again terrorized by one of its neighbors, all in the name of fighting "terror". Lebanon has a history of getting raped by Syria and Israel - mostly by Israel.

Hmmm. Given the outcome of the IDFs summer holiday in Lebanon last year I'd be surprised if they were in the mood for more of the same in their own backyard. No military spokesman with a brain would start putting timescales of days on any such operation either.

A fellow fan of Banksy here have we? He inspires me greatly. Well met.

[JP226]

Disappointed about a paper publishing news. Well, I never, the nerve!

disappointed about publishing fake news.

[removeduser_487563287433]

How is it faked? All you said is that it was discussed on a popular show... which seems remarkably in the realms of the real to me.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Point being though that Israel does not have a very good recent history of attempting to destroy an ability to launch rockets.

[mrmouth]

Point being though that Israel does not have a very good recent history of attempting to destroy an ability to launch rockets.

Indeed.

Although Gaza is a different nut to crack.

[TAG]

Its easy to capture Gaza , but its almost impossible to stop the rockets.
For that some villages must be well--wiped.

Someone mentioned Lebanon, Lebanon war was guerrilla warfare in forest area with hills and small mountains.
Gaza is urban area in which IDF dominated.

[Mathius]

Someone mentioned Lebanon, Lebanon war was guerrilla warfare in forest area with hills and small mountains.
Gaza is urban area in which IDF dominated.

ROFL. Are you claiming that clearing out tower blocks is easier than woodland????

UNPLEASANT IMAGERY - NOT SUITABLE FOR MINORS
http://www.lgic.org/en/israel-lebanon-2006.php

Looks pretty urban to me in parts my friend.

[TAG]

ROFL. Are you claiming that clearing out tower blocks is easier than woodland????

UNPLEASANT IMAGERY - NOT SUITABLE FOR MINORS
http://www.lgic.org/en/israel-lebanon-2006.php

Looks pretty urban to me in parts my friend.

Those pictures are consequences of air force bombing(at Lebanon) and Katusha rockets (Israel).

Most of the fighting was against the Katusha launchers that were hiding in the woods.

[Tom Paine]

Those pictures are consequences of air force bombing(at Lebanon) and Katusha rockets (Israel).

Most of the fighting was against the Katusha launchers that were hiding in the woods.

Not really - think of the bombings of urban areas, and the attempted ground strikes. That is what would have to be done in Gaza. And with massive civilian casualties again, in all likelihood!

[JP226]

Point being though that Israel does not have a very good recent history of attempting to destroy an ability to launch rockets.

how the hell is that the point? The point is that the news was made up. Israel probably has a contingency plan just in case, but as far as actively planning and preparing for next week's shin dig is false.

[removeduser_487563287433]

how the hell is that the point? The point is that the news was made up. Israel probably has a contingency plan just in case, but as far as actively planning and preparing for next week's shin dig is false.

Sorry but when it's your word against the Times of London, I'll take the Times. I will buy the paper tomorrow, and we'll see if there's a correction.

Don't hold your breath.