Marcus Camillus' 4tpy Mod v1.9.6

[Marcus Camillus]

Marcus Camillus' 4 Turns-per-Year Mod v1.9.6 for RTR Platinum v1.9


Advance to attack!

I have completed the new release version of my 4tpy mod, v1.9.6, which is based on the RTR Platinum Mod v1.9 and needs the RTW v1.5 or the BI v1.6 game engines to function fully. Most of my new character traits and ancillaries require the new script commands available with the RTW v1.5 or BI v1.6 game engines.

Release of v1.9.6 of this mod updates it to be compatible with the RTR Platinum v1.9 Release. Also, the construction time and costs for all buildings have been doubled to better balance the campaign to account for the number of turns per year being doubled from the 2 turns-per-year of Vanilla RTR Platinum. The command bonus received with the Legate, Praetor, and Consul ranks has been reduced to a +1 command bonus for all three ranks. These two items, EDB changes and command bonus changes, have been added to better balance the campaign.

The v1.9.6 release of the 4tpy mod has its own executable installer, which I have packaged in a zip file with the current ReadMe file. Installation will simply require unzipping the zip file to a temporary folder, then running the installer, and directing it to install in your RTR Platinum main folder.

The install location for my ReadMe file and design notes is a sub-folder of the "Rome - Total War\Docs" folder of RTR Platinum, named "Marcus Camillus' 4tpy Mod Read Me". I have also added copies of the excellent reference documents created by RepMan. They can be found in a sub-folder of my "Marcus Camillus' 4tpy Mod Read Me" folder that I have named "Roman Leadership System Info". I highly recommend reading through RepMan's informative reference documents to get a much better understanding of how my Roman Leadership System works. All these documents have been updated by me for v1.9.6 of the 4tpy Mod.

Many thanks to RepMan for this effort. I much appreciate the assistance in documenting my system.

I also would like other mod creators/developers to know that I fully give permission for them to use or adapt this mod for use in their own mods. I only ask to be notified of its inclusion in their mod, especially since I would like to personally try their mod myself. After all, I started in moddng RTW from a love of playing RTW and its many excellent mods.

Without further ado, here is a download link for the new version...

Marcus Camillus' 4 Turns-per-Year Mod v1.9.6 for RTR Platinum v1.9

[Porphyrogenita]

Thankyou Great One!

[Black Francis]

Hail!

[I Am Herenow]

Cool! Shouldn't the link say "for RTR Platinum v1.9"?

Also, does this work with your music mod and is it a different mod to the Extended Realism mod?

Cheers!

[xj900uk]

Hi there,

Have the older Marcus Camillus 4tpy mod, been playing it for a few months now & have a question to ask - what actually triggers the Marius/Marian reforms?
Elsewhere some people have said it is an astounding number victories (150+? 250?+), others that you have to build an awesome temple outside Italy, or get a non-Italian city to 24,000+ with an imperial palance + some other buildings.
Most people think it's at random some point after the trigger event has been reached, which I can understand, but what exactly is the trigger event?

[Tony83]

Wow! Changing the costs and timings of the building has really changed the dynamics of the campaign; it's almost like playing a different game!

I started a new Roman campaign yesterday and I'm really having to think hard when planning my infrastructure improvements, and it's really slowed down the expansion of the empire.

Who would have thought that such a "simple" device would have had such a significant effect. Nice one

P.S. Do the increases also apply to the AI? I ask as it's 269 BC in my new campaign, and while I'm still struggling to clear out southern Italy, Macedon has turned into a real powerhouse and has already knocked out Illyria, and I think Greece is about to follow them.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Imperial Place in Italy (Rome not included).

[Preskinn]

Maccedon steamrolls still? I thought the 1 hp change would help us against them...

[Tony83]

I'm now nearly 40 years into my Roman campaign and their expansion is still progressing slowly but surely. Southern Italy and nearly all of Sicily now owe their allegiance to Rome and a campaign in northern Italy beckons.

Macedonia continue their expansion and bid for superpower status, and it's only a matter of time before I'm going to have to take them out. Probably before I deal with Carthage, which is unhistorical, but I'm probably not going to have any option.

While I'm really enjoying the slower paced campaign (very EB'esque!) I am having unrest issues in some of my Roman cities. The longer construction times has resulted in the population increasing (which I'm guessing hasn't been changed from vanilla RTRP 1.9) faster than I can build "happiness" buildings. Therefore, I'm wondering if it's worth toning "fertility" down a bit to more accurately reflect the 4tpy.

[Pontifexus Maximus]

I cannot use the 4tpy script. When clicking the advisor portrai, as instructed, there is no info about the script, but the casual advising messages. There is no "show me how" active either.
Might the problem be coming from the fact that I use RTR PE 1.9 -mod switch version? If it is the problem, will there be any 4tpy script dedicated to -mod switch versions?

[Porphyrogenita]

Tony83,

Obviously I dont speak for Marcus, but I have also noticed the problem you mention.

Effectively, the population of any city will be will be about 4 times greater over 50-100 years than it would otherwise be with 2TPY. (All that compounding of pop growth). This is subject to a variety of game-imposed limitations, squalor effects, city improvements (especially farms), decrease in fertility approaching each city size stage etc, etc. If you halve the fertility rate, this creates issues with larger unit sizes and recruitment - especially for poor/barbarian factions. Also, halving the fertility, if fertility were the only factor, would result in less than half the growth. Given that fertility often contributes less than half to the total growth percentage, and that it seems you must use an integer, I have halved (FRD) the base farming levels/"fertility".

I am going to try reducing the fertility settings for each region as follows:
7-4
6=3
5=3
4=2
3=2
2=2
1=1

Each point is I think 0.5%.

I will also try reducing the trade value of grain to 1 (or less if possible) in the hope that this might limit the grain trade, which I understand may be a contributor if you have access to a sea trade route to a grain exporter.

Hopefully this will have some positive impact!

Otherwise I really like the new 4TPY mod with the increased building costs/times.

If any good comes of my test it I'll post it.

Regards

[Marcus Camillus]

Cool! Shouldn't the link say "for RTR Platinum v1.9"?

Also, does this work with your music mod and is it a different mod to the Extended Realism mod?

Cheers!

Oops, missed that. Its corrected now, thanks for mentioning.

Next question, yes, it works with my music mod. The Extended Realism Mod has my mod incorporated into it, but I don't think it has been updated to my new version, v1.9.6, yet. Due to the Extended Realism Mod having economic changes of its own, it may not add my new doubled building construction time and costs. You will need to contact the people taking care of the Extended Realism Mod to find out what their plans are.

Hi there,

Have the older Marcus Camillus 4tpy mod, been playing it for a few months now & have a question to ask - what actually triggers the Marius/Marian reforms?
Elsewhere some people have said it is an astounding number victories (150+? 250?+), others that you have to build an awesome temple outside Italy, or get a non-Italian city to 24,000+ with an imperial palance + some other buildings.
Most people think it's at random some point after the trigger event has been reached, which I can understand, but what exactly is the trigger event?

Imperial Place in Italy (Rome not included).

As LestaT mentions, you need to build an Imperial Palace in one of the cities of Italy other than Rome to trigger the Marian Reforms. My 4tpy Mod does not change the conditions of the Marian Reforms.

Wow! Changing the costs and timings of the building has really changed the dynamics of the campaign; it's almost like playing a different game!

I started a new Roman campaign yesterday and I'm really having to think hard when planning my infrastructure improvements, and it's really slowed down the expansion of the empire.

Who would have thought that such a "simple" device would have had such a significant effect. Nice one

P.S. Do the increases also apply to the AI? I ask as it's 269 BC in my new campaign, and while I'm still struggling to clear out southern Italy, Macedon has turned into a real powerhouse and has already knocked out Illyria, and I think Greece is about to follow them.

Glad to hear you are enjoying the changes. I've not had as much time to play, so you are ahead of me in turn members playing the Romans.

I'm now nearly 40 years into my Roman campaign and their expansion is still progressing slowly but surely. Southern Italy and nearly all of Sicily now owe their allegiance to Rome and a campaign in northern Italy beckons.

Macedonia continue their expansion and bid for superpower status, and it's only a matter of time before I'm going to have to take them out. Probably before I deal with Carthage, which is unhistorical, but I'm probably not going to have any option.

While I'm really enjoying the slower paced campaign (very EB'esque!) I am having unrest issues in some of my Roman cities. The longer construction times has resulted in the population increasing (which I'm guessing hasn't been changed from vanilla RTRP 1.9) faster than I can build "happiness" buildings. Therefore, I'm wondering if it's worth toning "fertility" down a bit to more accurately reflect the 4tpy.

I've been thinking about doing just this. I'll be experimenting with changes for this when time permits. My next version will more than likely include a bit more rebalancing of this sort.

I cannot use the 4tpy script. When clicking the advisor portrai, as instructed, there is no info about the script, but the casual advising messages. There is no "show me how" active either.
Might the problem be coming from the fact that I use RTR PE 1.9 -mod switch version? If it is the problem, will there be any 4tpy script dedicated to -mod switch versions?

I have not had time to create a version of my 4tpy Mod for the -mod: switch version of RTR Platinum. The v1.9.6 release of my mod will not work directly with the RTRPE -mod: switch version with out your needing to adapt it. It should not be that hard, but I lack the time right now.

Tony83,

Obviously I dont speak for Marcus, but I have also noticed the problem you mention.

Effectively, the population of any city will be will be about 4 times greater over 50-100 years than it would otherwise be with 2TPY. (All that compounding of pop growth). This is subject to a variety of game-imposed limitations, squalor effects, city improvements (especially farms), decrease in fertility approaching each city size stage etc, etc. If you halve the fertility rate, this creates issues with larger unit sizes and recruitment - especially for poor/barbarian factions. Also, halving the fertility, if fertility were the only factor, would result in less than half the growth. Given that fertility often contributes less than half to the total growth percentage, and that it seems you must use an integer, I have halved (FRD) the base farming levels/"fertility".

I am going to try reducing the fertility settings for each region as follows:
7-4
6=3
5=3
4=2
3=2
2=2
1=1

Each point is I think 0.5%.

I will also try reducing the trade value of grain to 1 (or less if possible) in the hope that this might limit the grain trade, which I understand may be a contributor if you have access to a sea trade route to a grain exporter.

Hopefully this will have some positive impact!

Otherwise I really like the new 4TPY mod with the increased building costs/times.

If any good comes of my test it I'll post it.

Regards

Thanks for taking time to try these changes out. Please let me know the results you see in-game and any thoughts you have concerning this. This sort of assistance is appreciated and in the past helped with my developing the current v1.9.6 release.

At the end of next week, I will be taking my family on a vacation for one and a half weeks. After returning, I'll check up with this forum for any new info. Thanks in advance for anyone sharing any of their thoughts with this forum.

[Porphyrogenita]

Halving the "base farming level" as above seems to have a poitive impact - but it is more than compensated for by the "food imports" problem. (BTW, my test bed is Bactria - since I can ignore sea trade effects.) This is a major hassle. Changing the trade value of grain to 1 made no discernible difference (except possibly reducing the income of the exporter!). I do not want to remove the grain resource entirely, so I have set the trade value to 0. This should prevent it being traded, but it will still be availabe for local (ie within that region) consumption. Lets hope!


Regards

[Marcus Camillus]

Halving the "base farming level" as above seems to have a poitive impact - but it is more than compensated for by the "food imports" problem. (BTW, my test bed is Bactria - since I can ignore sea trade effects.) This is a major hassle. Changing the trade value of grain to 1 made no discernible difference (except possibly reducing the income of the exporter!). I do not want to remove the grain resource entirely, so I have set the trade value to 0. This should prevent it being traded, but it will still be availabe for local (ie within that region) consumption. Lets hope!


Regards

Sounds good, keep me posted if you don't mind. I appreciate the help and additional point of view.

[Incomitatus]

Marcus Camillus et al,

I'm a long time RTR lurker; first started playing RTR when 5.4. I just upgraded to Platinum from Gold (late comer due to stubborness). The problem you seem to be running into is not new. Runaway population growth is why the grain resource was eliminated from RTR in the first place. I'm very surprised, and somewhat dismayed, to see it return in Platinum.

The problem with it, of course, is that it doesn't just get traded for money: it also trades its growth enhancing properties. A handful of provinces with grain in them trading with each other can rapidly turn into a horrendous and ahistorical mess of rabbit-like breeding. This is especially true since ONE lone grain resource equates to a 1.5% growth increase or, in other terms, the equal to a base farming level of 3.

After checking out the map without fog of war on, it seems like nearly 1/3rd of the provinces, particularly on the southern and eastern half of the map have been given the grain resource. That is way too many. Overland trade, and particularly sea trade between those province results in massive growth bonuses.

Doubling the cost and build time simply compounds the problem. Incidentaly, Marcus Camillus, while I love your 4tpy mod, when it comes to the doubling cost/build time... I think there is room for more nuance. I know it is still a work-in-progress, but I feel that some things did not need the build time doubled, and some may very well need build times more than doubled (agricultural development comes to mind... I would hope it would take more than a year to clear cut a province for farms...). But back to growth problems...

If the grain resource is going to be in the game, and it would be appropriate in a few cases, I feel it should be restricted to regions bordering the Lower Nile, the Indus River, and perhaps right around Carthage. It should be removed from all other locations and compensated for by slight increases in the base farming levels.

This brings me to my question: I want to cut base farming in half, at least, and remove the grain resource from most of the provinces it is currently in. How do I do that? I tried editing the data/world/maps/base/descr_regions.txt file by hand, but apparently that had no effect even after running the delete map.rwm batch file or deleting the map.rwm files manually. I have RTRPE 1.9 and the 4tpy mod, running on the BI.exe. Any help anyone could provide would be appreciated, and I hope you consider my critique/suggestions.

Cheers,
Incomitatus

[Incomitatus]

Nevermind my request for help. I've just discovered the wonderful world of descr_strat.txt and am slogging my way through that mess. Changes apparently have to be made both in descr_regions.txt and descr_strat.txt before they take place on the map.

Oddly enough, I find that if you both change the base farm value AND remove the grain resource in descr_regions.txt, but do not remove the grain resource in descr_strat.txt, the map does not update the BASE FARM changes either. Very odd.

[AngryTitusPullo]

The visual resource are only taken into consideration when it's in the descr_strat.txt . The reason that CA include them in the descr_regions.txt is probably just for reference only.

So for example if you want to disable the grain resource due to the hardcoded population increase bonus then it's sufficient just to delete or replace the grain resource entry in the descr_strat.txt only.

[metahead]

Quick question, probably answered elsewhere, but...when one forgets to initiate the 4tpy by clicking on the advisor, and ends the turn, and then remembers at the next turn, does it cause any problems? I mean, can you accidently skip a turn or two without 4tpy and then get back into it without causing a problem with military service advancement or city developement? Thanks to any responses.

[piko]

How do you promote your tribunes in function to legate? The general in question has X years on the clock as tribune but doesn't become legate???

[morteduzionism]

How do you promote your tribunes in function to legate? The general in question has X years on the clock as tribune but doesn't become legate???

you have to put him in a city for...2 or 3 turns...wait until: a) he loses some command stars and b) no longer has the trait: Tribunis Mili...whatever

then put him with some soldiers...preferrably as the only family member...then...voila...a legate

to go from legate to praetor just do the same thing...only...it'd be wise that before ending the turn(after he's spent time in a city) give his Roman Legio banner to someone else...end turn...then...ta da...a praetor

I give him back the Roman Legio banner...but that's up to you