I have changed the old mod into this new mod with a more proper name. I call it version 2.0, as I saw the old mod as the old version.
Features in this new version are...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
2.2
- Updated the mod for SS.4.
- Changed the reload times.
- Fixed some remaining mercenary units. 2.1
- Included a Pikemen fix. (Big thanks to Caligula I.)
- Fixed some costings for mercenaries. 2.0 (Real)
- After further testing the upkeep raisings seemed to turn out negative for the enemy. They simply seemed to get into some real big financial problems, and the only solution I could find was to restore the upkeep costings, except for mercenaries and peasants. 2.0 (Test)
- All units have increased Training time, costs and upkeep.
- A more effective heatsystem.
- Some minor changes here and there.
Changes made in the old mod...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
- Increase the damage of all missile weapons. - Reduce the ammonition of most missile-units. - Decrease the missile-troops' strenght in close-combat (Those with knifes) - And finally, I have "stolen" CALIGULA I's idea and added it in the script, so that Gunpowder-units now can fire in two ranks. 1.01
-Fixed accuracies.
-Changed the descr_projectile, to improve realistics.
-Made some minor changes for the missile troops damage aswell 1.02
-Increased the damage of all missile troops a bit more.
-Decreased crossbowunits range, except the mounted ones.
-Lowered the crossbowunits angle of fire. 1.03
-Increased the accuracy for all missile-units, matching Darthmod. 1.04
-Increased Longbow range and damage.
-Leveled composite archers a bit.
-Decreased arquebusers range, increased their reload time and strenght.
-Fixed some small things with the Musket-units.
-Decreased the reload time for some archers. 1.05
-Fixed Siege-engines 1.06
-Lowered Composite bows accuracy.
-Increased the Trebuchets range, but weakened its accuracy.
-Javelins, rockets and Ribaults have more mass.
-Made a new arrow type for peasants.
-Mortars and Gunners have more realistic angles to fire from.
-Basilisk have better accuracy now.
-Gunners have a small increase in damage.
-Towers have more arrow ammonition now.
-All gates are strengtened. 1.07
-All crew personal with knifes have lower H.P, similar to ordinary knifeunits.
-Increased all engines health.
-Increased the radius of most engine projectiles.
-Removed Bounce from ballistas.
-Changed the ammount of ammonition. (Bigger cannons have less, smaller have more.)
-Changed reload times for engines.
-Gave exploding ammo more damage than regular ammo.
-Fixed superior fire-arrow.
-Increased the accuracy of Trebuchets a bit. 1.08
-Rebalanced ALL missileunits.
-All longbowmen now have range of 250. 1.09
-Increased Trebuchet accuracy a bit.
-Reduced ammunition, except on militias.
WHAT CAN I EXPECT?
You will face a new and bigger challenge here.
You will have to have a better overview of your kingdom, follow your enemies closely to keep up with the weapon race. You will need to plan your wars and conquests, dismiss your troops and send them home to their farms and families when you dont need them and then you will see a whole new map, where there shouldnt be so many enemy armies flocking in stacks around their settlements.
From the old mod, the missileunits are strenghtened to give them an advantage.
They have increased damage, accuracy and fixed reload speeds. However, they have fewer arrows, and they are more expensive.
Many other things are also changed, look in the changelog to find more details or join the discussion on the thread.
HOW DO I INSTALL?
Very simple... download the files and place them in your Medieval II Total War/Stainless_Steel/data folder and overwrite the already existing files. MAKE SURE that you backup your original files first, in case something should go wrong.
Futhermore, I can recommand my small Merchant Mod, which will help you increase your income, making the enemy more dangerous with bigger armies. Works very well with this mod!
You can find that here... http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=111693
A special thanks
...goes to all who have assisted me in testing and improving this mod.
If you have any comments on it, good or bad, please post here in this thread.
Otherwise, I hope you can find it useful, as I have... Enjoy
Last edited by Vindahl; August 02, 2007 at 11:41 AM.
wouldn't that make the siege a lot more harder, when they keep killing your ram? not to mention , have you tried a bow before? missing someone is atually quite normal. (don't be mad, i'm just sharing my opinion ) , so, i don't think this is a good idea, but great work tho, i'm gonna give you rep just for working on this
and about remaining standing? when its heavy infantry, of course, that's what the armor is for afterall, right? So I think its fair..
+rep for me if you agree with me , i might give it right back to you
=Mike13531 wouldn't that make the siege a lot more harder, when they keep killing your ram? not to mention , have you tried a bow before? missing someone is atually quite normal. (don't be mad, i'm just sharing my opinion ) ..
i am totally agree with Mike mate because in fact not all the archers are "Robinhood" and archers never shoot with aiming the army they "volley" that mean bringing rain this will hit only few especially "weaker" armours that's why some of the especiall units have this ability such as "(sherwood archers, dismounted longbow, scots guard, byzantium guard, jann archers, mongol dismounted archers) so if you like to improve these archers ability little bit more goodluck with your progress mate
WHAT IS THIS? I have for a long time ago changed the missile troops, as I thought they werent represented realistic enough. So, now I thought I could try and share it...
I have already posted a version for DLV, but as I am also beginning to use SS, I thought that I would share it in here as well...
May I humbly suggest that in addition to those changes another thing which I have found to be more realistic, is changing descr_projectiles.txt
I have changed the mass of the musket shot to 0.1, gave it radius 0.1 and damage 15.
In a 60 unit volley (2 ranks) this will kill about 30 -50 peasants (no armour) or about 10 - 20 knights (9 armour)
(as for the musket units I gave them a nominal range of 150 meters as this seemed more realistic for the time. 17th centuary flintlock muskets could reach 200yards or 180 meters)
The arquebus shot I changed to 10 damage & radius 0.1
Range set to 100
(units fire delay added as the arqubus was very slow to reload.)
@mike
Dude, I used a bow in real life for quite some time. A none moving target at under 50 meters is as good as dead even in the hands of a beginner such as myself.
If you were an archer practicing (for militia) once a week for a year or two, you could do better.
Some archers were so skilled that some of the higher-ups in the feudal system began to regard it (as was often the case) as cowardice.
Regarding the crossbow, some places banned its use completely & the arbalesters were practically banned everywhere by the pope himself.
Why?
Cause they made knights look silly, funny people in metal suits, tin cans destined to become an arrow magnet.
The problem is that the game does not represent batterin rams properly. Even in medieval times battering rams were was superior to that founbd in game. Some rams were mobile minifortresses, capable of utilizing 50 men into the ram pull/push cycle.
They would be under wooden frame cover, with thick layers of leather which tended to be soaked with water or fire resistant liquids (whatever they had at the time).
That was house they would bring a reinforcd steel gate to open. some even didnt bother as the gate was mpore difficult to breach than the walls themselves!
Some rams simply took down walls as arrows would not hinder them. Burning oil would not reach the men inside the structure & fire would take a very lond time to catch.
A solution for realistic arrows is realistic siege machines. As we do not have such luxury we would need to re-balance siege machines accordingly. Make a ram burn less likely or as in my opinion make a siege tower much tougher than it is.
In medieval times they would not make some half assed tower and hope it would get to the wall...they either had massively reinforced towers or really large ones, or the other approach, have 5, 10 or as many as you can.
Unfortunately the game cannot reflect such things. so it is really all about how YOU (the player) percieve medieval warfare and what you THINK (rather than know) is realistic for your subjective experience.
P.S.
I should probably take a vow of silence now
Last edited by ME2_junky; June 15, 2007 at 11:18 AM.
Thanks for your response.
I have used these changes for a long time, and your siegeweapons wont set on fire more than regulary!
I have tried using a bow yes, and you can easily hit a target on a good distance, so I would guess that these medieval archers who was working with a bow most their life, would be quite handy at it.
Of course, the archers in my change also misses a good deal of time. It it the damage they do I have increased. So, when people get hit, they will actually also suffer from it.
I could ask you, have you ever tried to be hit by an arrow?
ME2_junky
I will try to look through the descr_projectiles.txt aswell then, cause I think they will make an extra change I have been looking after for a long time. Thanks.
Thanks for your response.
I have used these changes for a long time, and your siegeweapons wont set on fire more than regulary!
I have tried using a bow yes, and you can easily hit a target on a good distance, so I would guess that these medieval archers who was working with a bow most their life, would be quite handy at it.
Of course, the archers in my change also misses a good deal of time. It it the damage they do I have increased. So, when people get hit, they will actually also suffer from it.
I could ask you, have you ever tried to be hit by an arrow?
ohh now i get it!! iam really sorry that i gave you the negative response
and i forget it and ...it's youuu Vindahl (you always make good thereads iam a big fan of yours seriously for example you raised the question of trespassing other units and battles of other factions in your lands always make me thinking of that) anyway thanks iam downloading now
Last edited by Chola_Kingdom; June 15, 2007 at 09:42 PM.
@Vindahl
A word of caution though, after that change, gun powder units using the musket shot or arquebus tend to destroy siege weapons with ease. (but I'm not sure if this was due to RC 1.3 mod or now)
Could you tell me what the mass, radius and damage do, when you change it?
Radius I guess is only neccesary with artellery!
And damage, if I change it in descr_units is it then also neccesary to make a change in Descr_projectile?
To the best of my knowledge, radius is the actual radius of effect a projectile has in meters.
since there were too many misses even with high accuracy settings I decided to change radius to 0.1 which gave significantly better "accuracy"
Mass is basically the weight, but I do not know if it is killos....I imagine it can be a rough comparison to killos as normal soldier units have a mass of 1.0 with strong mount-less charging units have a mass as high as 1.3 which give the effect of smashing enemy lines.
Mounted units have their regular mass plus 1.0 or more specific to the type of mount they possess.
To get an effect of units looking as if they were really shot I had to increase the mass of the musket shot as it was previously 0.05 despite the arquebus shot being 0.09. Since the musket has a heavier projectile the mass was corrected to 0.1
Damage is additional damage of the projectile type itself regardless of unit.
Thus anyone using a weapon with the designation of a musket shot projectile would enjoy the obvious advantages of the added damage.
I chose 15 specifically after seeing some semi-realistic balance being achieved.
When it was over 15 there were very few, to absolutely none, units that were hit & yet remained standing even amongst heavily armoured units.
If you exoeriement with the setting doing custom battles you will see that with those settings there is some realism to a 2x150 aztec peasants rushing a musketeer unit. They usually lose as over 50% of them get creamed during the approach. sometimes they lose morale early so they are doomed.
P.S.
The reason I changed damage in descr_projectile.txt is due to the seemingly irrelevant attack score of a unit. E.G if I changed musketeers to have 63 attack they would still not kill more knights.
In theory, the attack score calculates your chances to hit a given defense score, which with projectiles the most important is armour, as skill does not count and shield is bugged.
after the CPU concludes that a projectile has 'hit' (due to accuracy) a target it then checks to see if the atack value is high enough aginst defense value. Then damage is applied.
At least this is how I think it works. Thus musketeers with 16 attack and 63 attack would have the exact same hit ratio & damage. There is no one with a defense score that can really top 16 if you do not count defense skill
Last edited by ME2_junky; June 15, 2007 at 12:01 PM.
Thanks...
Hmm, I have changed the Musket and Arquebusers now, as you suggested. Seems a bit more right that way, I agree.
I then stumbeled across a thing. There is No additional damage done by the projectiles on fire, though there should be. Their accurasy in decreased, so would it be wrong if I gave them some additional damage now that I am working in the descr_projectile?
EDIT-
Or is that changed in the effect_offset, or what does that do?
Last edited by Vindahl; June 15, 2007 at 12:15 PM.
Well I am not sure about that one. I think that if a projectile on fire hits a target that target burns. This means that there is no need to add damage.
But then again if every hit is a kill & accuracy is decreased its basically the same.
I'll have to try this out. Unarmored/unshielded troops should melt away under concentrated missile fire.
Keep in mind that battlefield archery is not target shooting. A unit of archers is more akin to a machine gun crew than a sniper. The goal of the unit is to place as many projectiles as possible into the area of the enemy formation. Chances are pretty good that any projectile landing within a dense formation will hit something. Also remember that, in game terms, "kills" include fatalities and disabling wounds (aka "mobility kills" in modern armored warfare terminology). A soldier doesn't have to be dead to be rendered combat ineffective.
Last edited by aduellist; June 15, 2007 at 07:25 PM.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." H. L. Mencken
"Liberty is meaningless where the right to utter one’s thoughts and opinions has ceased to exist. That, of all rights, is the dread of tyrants. It is the right which they first of all strike down." Frederick Douglass
ok i tested your file seems very realistic enough but except the crossbow they are aiming at sky it;s unatural way so if you fix this this will be cool
"tested Sherwood archers and D.Longbow vs Milanise both militia,pro crossbowmens
Its ok Chola, I am not always so good to express myself in English...
The reason the Crossbowmen aims up in the air is probably that their range is too long. When the enemy comes close enough they will fire as normal crossbowmen, horisontal...
I am not an expert of crossbows, so correct me if I am wrong.
The range for crossbowmen is 120 in the game currently. Pavise & Genoese Crossbowmen and peasant crossbowmen is up to 160.
This is WAY too much in my eyes.
Crossbows are strong in "close-combat", while archers are more a range kinda unit.
So, I could set down the range. Half of what it is now for examble?
Or else we should find out how to make them aim horisontally instead of the uncontrolled vertically way they do now. I am not certain where to fix that thing. But I would think that we should edit the Angle max in Descr_projectile!?
I'll take a look at it.
EDIT-
After I took a look at it, I actually dont quite feel that the crossbowmen are aiming in the sky.
Which scenario and with what units did you experience this?
EDIT EDIT-
Ok, I find out... If there is a house in the way, the men will shot over it in a wild angle. I have just fixed that now, the problem is then that they have difficulties on shooting on a plain battlefield if there is just a tiny little hill.
This all means, that I set down the max angle, they will not shot upwards, that has the downside if the enemy is coming down from a hill, the men will not fire at them. So right now I am setting the angle so we can find a "middleway". I will return back with more information on how this is proseeding.
FINAL EDIT-
Good, find a suiting angle, changed it from 30 degrees to 10. Works fine now I think.
I will upload a new version with the change. Hope you dont mind...
Last edited by Vindahl; June 16, 2007 at 09:18 AM.
Uploaded a new version...
All comments are still more than welcome. Let me know if you want any changes with missile-units, which can improve the realism of the game.
Thanks for doing this small mod for SS!
Sounds pretty interesting, though I think it may be a disadvantage for the AI.
I will try it out soon and will try to give you some more feedback...
and btw, you said you changed the fire angle for crossbows to 10?
I have reduced the angles for crossbows to 55 and this works also quite good and I think 10 is probably much too low.
Hi M2 Junky,
Very good and interesting points you have made here!
Maybe I can make some small changes for the siege weapons...
junkie
well, junkie, that's not quite true, from your description i don't believe you tried it for real, its probably video game your talking about... ok, i'm an atheletic guy, basketball player for years, when i tried a bow. It is quite hard to hit a target 50 meters, wow, if you can hit every target in 50 meters everytime, you'd be in the national shooting team. >..>, so that's a lie, i can confirm it
and its true, not everyone has the potential to be robinhood.
Last edited by Mike13531; June 16, 2007 at 04:44 PM.
+rep for me if you agree with me , i might give it right back to you
junkie
well, junkie, that's not quite true, from your description i don't believe you tried it for real, its probably video game your talking about... ok, i'm an atheletic guy, basketball player for years, when i tried a bow. It is quite hard to hit a target 50 meters, wow, if you can hit every target in 50 meters everytime, you'd be in the national shooting team. >..>, so that's a lie, i can confirm it
and its true, not everyone has the potential to be robinhood.
The first time I used a bow I was 12. An let me repeat my claim; an immobile man sized target is EASY PICKINGS at 50 meters. VERY EASY to score a hit.
I am not speaking of a video game.
Once the target is moving it is a whole different story.
Let me just help you out here. Imagine you practice a given range with the same bow day after day...eventually when you find your range and learn to steady yourself you should hit 9 times out of 10.
The usual round practice targets are smaller.
A skilled archer of medieval times should be a ble to do better than that. Not only in accuracy but also in relaoding speed. In order for me to shoot and hit consecutively I would need a good 7 seconds...sometimes more if I do not get the arrow directly on the string. As I am not that skilled at such things.
(I do not know how you say certain words in English such as the arrows forked base that gets the string just between so bare with me.)
Just to add to that, I do not think you fully appreciate the level of skill medieval archers had. At the time archery was THE ranged weapon. Everyone was practicing it, creating new bows, arrows & techniques.
If you read my 'research possibilities' thread and look at the training some units had...you willo see that there are sourcebook accounts (E.G. a person of that time writing a diary/journal/letter IN the relevant period) of archer that were able to release 5 arrows in 2.5 seconds. Although I think it is impossible, by the technique described it could very well be 1 arrow pers second for every batch of 5.
Some mounted archers had to release 3 or more arrows ON A HORSE AT FULL CHARGE and manuever away inthe last 10 meters. They apparently managed to do this within 50-10 metters of the target at full charge.
These are of course elite archers and perhaps claims of 8 years training are not far fetched.
So even if these figures are slightly exaggerated, as they might be...it is still very impressive and shows just how much more skilled they were.
As for being on a team...just to manged to shoot a target from 50 meters is not good enough, you also have to hit close to the center, say a 15cm batch of 5. I cannot score such close batches. (with a gun I could )
Anyways...if you don't believe me that is your choice.
P.S.
Personally I do not see relation to athleticism or other sports. I suck at basketball, I'm good with a gun & even better in jujitsu. What does that mean? nothing.
Last edited by ME2_junky; June 17, 2007 at 08:23 AM.
Superior Troops Modification v2.2
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) , so, i don't think this is a good idea, but great work tho, i'm gonna give you rep just for working on this 
Originally Posted by Vindahl
