Roman legion reforms suggestion

[Scona]

Here is an idea that I got from reading posts on the "Roma Surrectum" mod site; specifically the sticky titled "LEGION & AOR CHANGES and EXPLANATIONS".

SPQR currently has a very abrupt change in troop types and quality when the Marius reforms kick in, going from the Republic's "National Guard" army straight to the Imperial profesionals with no intermediate steps. Maybe, by adding 2 extra Palaces and Recruiting centers to the build line up, the Roman army could have a more realistically gradual evolution.

1) Original legion types as we now have: Hastati, Principes and Triarii.

2) Next level, the Hastati & Triarii are removed, legions would exist with a slightly improved Principe type as their heavy infantry. The recruitment and replacement of specific legions in specific provinces could also begin.

3) The standard Marius reforms occur, Legionaries become the standard infantry, legions recruited in specific provinces.

4) Final upgrade of the the early "Consular" troops to the more professional "Imperial" units.

Upgrades 2 thru 4 would occur as the needed government and recruiting buildings become available; perhaps at population levels 24000, 36000 and 48000 respectively.

This rework might worth exploring as a final upgrade to SPQR, if it doesn't over load the program, after the final teething problems have been settled for 6.4. For a more detailed explanation of this approach, read the sticky post I cited.

[tai4ji2x]

- i'm pretty sure the governor's buildings/city levels are hardcoded and you cannot add new levels beyond the current 5

- as currently implemented, named/numbered pre-marian legions would require each province recruiting a different unit identification in export_descr_units.txt. there is a max unit limit hardcoded into RTW, and with the new mercs LT is planning on adding, i doubt there's any more room for branching out the pre-marian troop types the same way as the post-marian legionaries

[Samariten]

Easiest way just aviod building imperial barracks until right time for it...done and done

[GaussSoldier]

Choosing to build the Imperial Legionary Barracks at a later time could simulate the time the army would need to cross over to the Imperial Legions.

In my campaign, I plan to wait until all of my cities in italy, Sicily, North Africa, and Southern Spain can build Imperial Barracks.

[Konig]

so am i. i dont like having some legions wear the logica segmenta (if i spelled it right), while there others in my army that are still wearing the republican chinmail outfit.

[ovidiu]

the easiest way is to increase build time for all buildings, in this way all will be delayed and from my opinnion is more realistic.
Big buildings even with what techology we have take more than 3 years to complete.

[lt1956]

They built pretty fast Back then. Today were dont have Slaves or the Will to build fast. Ancient people would put us to shame today. They worked longer hours and Pay wasnt a major concern. But it depends on the script. I have already adjusted build Times so dont worry. I also already increased Costs for Certain Buildings in SPQR. You have to be careful, sometimes they PLAYER needs to LEARN to play SLOWER and RESTRICT HIMSELF.

Example is I dont Build and Imperial Palace right away, I wait until Carthage is destroyed and the Gauls are pushed out of the north a little. Sometimes I even take a little bit a greece and spain. then I build the Palace. Carthage is NOT balanced to Fight republican Legions, its balanced for Premarius, as the Players FIRST concern in the Game is Carthages Destruction!

Lt

[ovidiu]

I've noticed my self that carthage can be destroyes so quickly. Lt, what about making walls a little more expensive. It will add to the realism. Sometime big stones had to be caried to the city from miles away.

[Garnier]

Maybe you should put a landbridge from sicily to italy. This would make carthage a real threat. Though I don't know how important it is, what with the changes you're already making.

[En_tu_Brute]

They built pretty fast Back then. Today were dont have Slaves or the Will to build fast. Ancient people would put us to shame today. They worked longer hours and Pay wasnt a major concern. But it depends on the script. I have already adjusted build Times so dont worry. I also already increased Costs for Certain Buildings in SPQR. You have to be careful, sometimes they PLAYER needs to LEARN to play SLOWER and RESTRICT HIMSELF.

Example is I dont Build and Imperial Palace right away, I wait until Carthage is destroyed and the Gauls are pushed out of the north a little. Sometimes I even take a little bit a greece and spain. then I build the Palace. Carthage is NOT balanced to Fight republican Legions, its balanced for Premarius, as the Players FIRST concern in the Game is Carthages Destruction!

Lt

odd after messana fell and i retoek it they made peace with me after 10 turns and i never attcked them since......

[lt1956]

Not needed on the Land bridge.

As for walls Costs and build Times have been increased Never fear. I notice things also and improve when I can. ;-)

[ovidiu]

Ty LT

I will give a beer for this!

[monkey knife fight]

yeah i got yelled at for moving too fast, just play as he plays, end carthage first...

[lt1956]

lol, you didnt get yelled at, your were corrected to enhance you game. ;-)

[Scona]

Regarding the original topic, I think I may just test the theory of "Legion Evolution" by simply building the various types at set bench marks. The "principe only" organization when all cities in Italia have Imperial palaces, and only 1 such legion for each recruiting site. The Marius recruiting centers when the Italia cities have all reached 36000 population. It may be the sort of thing best done with a house rule.

[lt1956]

It is, House rules make the BEST gameplay. I dont think any other mod offers house rules? But SPQR is unique anyway as it was designed around my style of play where other mods were just made for Fans basically which all have different views of what makes a fun game.