A thought on Mercs

[Rusty Hammer]

Let me preface this post by saying I loved the new mercs and the merc recruitment buildings.

But, if levy troops (i.e. region specific auxillary troops) will soon be available through government buildings that integrate conquered territories I propose a change.

Perhaps,
Allow levy troops throught gov't buildings, but only allow mercs to be recruitable via the merc que in the army widow. This might allow for more diverse/regional armies to appear rather then letting everyone build longbowmen even is Spain instead the player will have more motivation to capture specific regions to gain the troops found there.

Just wanted to see how people felt about the idea.

Thoughts????? or or just plain

[AMMsterz]

WaZaaa!!!

I'm with you, Rusty Hammer ! Like how the idea provides more of an incentive to capture different settlements in the campaign map ! I also feel that it'd probably also be more realistic ... but don't count on my historical knowledge

Peaceage

[Rusty Hammer]

Granted what I propose is nothing new, basically it's the same concept as Rome Total Realsim.

I did however find that in RTR you could form very unique native/auxillary forces to complement the standard issue units.

[Rex Inanimatus]

To play with mercs is something I do without because they are far from cost effective troops

[Xeno_cws]

Personally I think Mercs should have a cheaper recruit cost, but a slightly higher maintence cost.

More realistic since you don't have to buy and supply weapons and armour. Also it makes it so the player buys them when needed and disbands them shortly after (else pay high upkeep). Much like the days of yore, eh?


Something to think about else there isn't much point to them unfortunately.

[Rusty Hammer]

Personally I think Mercs should have a cheaper recruit cost, but a slightly higher maintence cost.

More realistic since you don't have to buy and supply weapons and armour. Also it makes it so the player buys them when needed and disbands them shortly after (else pay high upkeep). Much like the days of yore, eh?


Something to think about else there isn't much point to them unfortunately.

I agree they should be a temporary solution, and not become permanent parts of a standing army.

[tornnight]

Everything will be regional. The idea I was aiming for was.

Capture Province.
Build Mercenary Recruitment Center 1 (Recruit Level 1 Regional Mercenaries) -> Mercernary Recruitment Center 2 ->
or/and
Build Government Level 1 -> Build Barracks 1 (Access to Regional Troops) -> Build Government Level 2 -> Build Barracks 2 (Access to Level 1 Faction Troops)

The Government Path will be longer and more expensive. Which is why building the Mercenary buildings will be helpful to get an army in a hurry.

[Rusty Hammer]

true, I guess the history and RTR dork in me, makes me favour the goverment buildings, seems more historically accurate that to have regional troops have a greater focus, and mercs as more of a temporary add hoc save your butt strategy.

A vote perhaps???

[Grimmy]

Pipe dream and wishful thinking in the "cant be done" category, most likely but...

I'd like to see the possibility that a low command rank General or Captain could lose control of his army after a city or castle is taken and the army goes on a rampage without orders. This would result in the slaughter of the inhabitants and destruction with no cash pay for all the buildings in the town.

This would be even more probable in armies with mercs in them.

[Grimmy]

"A vote perhaps???"

If you're asking general population players and not your crew of modders, then my vote would be to go with what the mod designer feels most appropriate and/or easiest to implement.

I am familiar with the RTR setup but the more either/or merc line or gov line has an appeal as well.

[tornnight]

The problem with the merc reqruitment window is that anyone can use it, even invaders. You can enter a province with just a general, recruit an army and wham. I think that's just wrong.

I'm not completely sure I understand what you're proposing Rusty Hammer.

I definately want you to have to own the province to recruit the regional troops, Mercenary and Levy.

[Rusty Hammer]

The problem with the merc reqruitment window is that anyone can use it, even invaders. You can enter a province with just a general, recruit an army and wham. I think that's just wrong.

I'm not completely sure I understand what you're proposing Rusty Hammer.

I definately want you to have to own the province to recruit the regional troops, Mercenary and Levy.

I guess what I'm saying is that recruiting mercs is fine, but it should (be through the merc window) when these troops can be retrained they can become a core part of your army rather then a temporary solution that they were historically (I'm all about high upkeep for mercs too). With govt buildings and levy troops we will see regional unique units make up core roles in many armies rather then ever player being able to field longbowmen etc, and continue to retrain them.

but enough griping I think the system rocks as is, but I just wanted to throw in my 2cents.

[infernocanuck]

I do enjoy the "Mercenary" line of buildings to deal with the problem. This nice 4-teir line isn't too expensive, and the AI really takes advantage of it. In the current version, in fact, much of the towns I have taken from the AI have built the high level buildings, which is absolutely great.

Honestly, all that is "needed" are the levies for the particular factions that originate in certain regions, and you are golden, sir, golden!

[Dooz]

I'm loving the Mercs. I like that they're expensive to recruit in the first place, and a fortune to keep up. It makes them more special. I still remember when I hired my first few hundred mercs to my main standing army at a crucial junction in the reconquista. I kept an eye on them throughout the whole campaign, they had a special flavor. As their numbers slowly dwindled down after every battle, the ones left standing could smell the big payoff when they'd be disbanded and collect their big booties.

I wonder if an idea like this would fly... no mercs are recruitable outside of a merc buildings that must be built. As in, no recruiting in the field. Is that too much? I think I've noticed there are less mercs in the field available anyway but maybe that'd give them that much more meaning...

[Rusty Hammer]

I'm loving the Mercs. I like that they're expensive to recruit in the first place, and a fortune to keep up. It makes them more special. I still remember when I hired my first few hundred mercs to my main standing army at a crucial junction in the reconquista. I kept an eye on them throughout the whole campaign, they had a special flavor. As their numbers slowly dwindled down after every battle, the ones left standing could smell the big payoff when they'd be disbanded and collect their big booties.

I wonder if an idea like this would fly... no mercs are recruitable outside of a merc buildings that must be built. As in, no recruiting in the field. Is that too much? I think I've noticed there are less mercs in the field available anyway but maybe that'd give them that much more meaning...

I guess to my point of view hiring mercs in the field should be their main purpose, i.e. to save your but in hostile territory or beef up an army in a hurry, but for a price.

[Dooz]

I guess to my point of view hiring mercs in the field should be their main purpose, i.e. to save your but in hostile territory or beef up an army in a hurry, but for a price.

Yeah, you're right. I knew there was a hole in my idea I was too lazy to look for. That'd definitely hinder some campaigns in hostile territory. Well I guess as long as they cost an ass-load to hire and aren't too available it should still be challenging.

[Xeno_cws]

Just so long as your able to recruit merc boats in the field. Crusades would be too much a pain if not.

[Dooz]

Just so long as your able to recruit merc boats in the field. Crusades would be too much a pain if not.

Oh yeah, that's for sure. And general crusader units too I'd assume.

[super-panda]

Well, for this, you must think what are basicly mercenaries?

They should have been soldiers before, and because they have been disbanded or stopped to will fight for their country, chose to fight for money or themselves. In this case, they are already trained soldiers that are already equiped and trained.
(Soldiers from catholics factions or islamists and either orthodox factions, if they are will to serve without care of the religion)

They should be people that have been mercenaries for the beggining, they have trained themselves in a military way or not, and offer their services since they have been ready.
(More likely to be the type of the villagers african mercenaries, and people that trained themselves in one way or another before offering their services)

Whatever they came from a professional army or not, they have bascily trained and armed themselves before offering their services. Maybe that you may think about retraining them and reequiping them if they are to poorly-armed (african tribesmen armed with club and no armor should be a example), but i don't know if that could be incorpored into the game.

Mercenaries should clearly cost less than normal soldiers in the way that you normally don't retrain and rearm them.Therefore, their upkeep cost will maybe a bit highter than normal soldiers, and them maybe take parts on the loot of a town or something else.

The current system, where you must make a buildings to attract the near mercenaries, mean that you retrain and rearm them, otherwise you should have them more quickly,though, mercenaries aren't normal soldiers,and if you don't buy them, them may should look to another place to be hired.

[tornnight]

I see. I dunno, I had the impression that many Kingdoms in those times used Mercenaries continuously. It was much easier than to maintain a standing army. For example, the Condotierri were used extensively as a central part of the Venecian military.