Mankind: Her Nature And Consequent "Direction"

[Tom Paine]

This spawns from a discussion I had this morning, and I'll be kinda brief in noting down my own thoughts so we can get on to yours. The basic matter is, what is the essential nature of mankind (good, bad; selfish, generous; self-interesting, communally minded; &c) and what "direction" do we aim for - perfection, the status quo, or worsening ourselves? This applies equally to individuals as to the species; but since the individuals are the species, the two are inextricably linked.


Now, and please bear with me here, this is my own opinion - discuss it if you want, ignore it if you'd rather not. Mankind is essentially, in my view, a species whose members rarely care about each other, and those who do are ridiculed for so doing; a species whose members tend to place fake-caring in place of real human emotion, because we lost the ability to empathise when it got hard; a species whose members don't care about anyone external to themselves except insofar as it benefits themselves. We are so selfish that anyone who tries to change this or draws attention to it, or even acts differently and against the grain, rare exceptions as these people are, are worn down and destroyed by their actions or destroyed by mankind as a result of their actions - as a case of the later, witness Christ. From this, my view of the specieal direction should be clear; we are not only headed downhill, we are trying to accelerate, and anything that gets in our way should be eliminated.
And yes, by the way, I am very much misanthropic, but only because of experience. The reason I can go on living? As I said after expounding the above in the relevant conversation, we all die anyway, may as well say "**** you" to life first, right?

[Irishman]

I think that by nature, Humans are simply animals. They (through evolution of the race) have become very attached to one another, and as such, can give, but often their animal insticts take over cand cause greed.

I think that humans need to focus less on percieved differences between people, and realize the truth of life, that we are all just members of this planet, and that we must work together to reduce suffering, because this world and life is all we have.

[David Deas]

This spawns from a discussion I had this morning, and I'll be kinda brief in noting down my own thoughts so we can get on to yours. The basic matter is, what is the essential nature of mankind (good, bad; selfish, generous; self-interesting, communally minded; &c) and what "direction" do we aim for - perfection, the status quo, or worsening ourselves? This applies equally to individuals as to the species; but since the individuals are the species, the two are inextricably linked.


Now, and please bear with me here, this is my own opinion - discuss it if you want, ignore it if you'd rather not. Mankind is essentially, in my view, a species whose members rarely care about each other, and those who do are ridiculed for so doing; a species whose members tend to place fake-caring in place of real human emotion, because we lost the ability to empathise when it got hard; a species whose members don't care about anyone external to themselves except insofar as it benefits themselves. We are so selfish that anyone who tries to change this or draws attention to it, or even acts differently and against the grain, rare exceptions as these people are, are worn down and destroyed by their actions or destroyed by mankind as a result of their actions - as a case of the later, witness Christ. From this, my view of the specieal direction should be clear; we are not only headed downhill, we are trying to accelerate, and anything that gets in our way should be eliminated.
And yes, by the way, I am very much misanthropic, but only because of experience. The reason I can go on living? As I said after expounding the above in the relevant conversation, we all die anyway, may as well say "**** you" to life first, right?

It's a good thing that what you say isn't true.

You watch too much media, man. Look around you. People are generally pretty nice. Unless you're a dork or something. So don't be a dork.

[Tom Paine]

It's a good thing that what you say isn't true.

You watch too much media, man. Look around you. People are generally pretty nice. Unless you're a dork or something. So don't be a dork and you'll have no trouble getting along.

Don't be a dork. Or nonwhite. Or not of the majority religion. Or of a non-"normal" sexuality. Or of anything other than basically average intelligence. Yeah, pretty easy huh? If anything, the media tends to talk mankind up, not down - and that's a ream of social commentary in itself. And hell, what do we mean by "dork" in the first place, here, huh? Someone different, its that simple, really...

[hellheaven1987]

Human being is... a materially intelligent animal. Really, we have enough wisdom to develop all great stuff, but most are just tool. Our spirit still cannot jump out from animal defination.

And if we continue like this, self-destruction would just wait for us.

[David Deas]

Don't be a dork. Or nonwhite. Or not of the majority religion. Or of a non-"normal" sexuality. Or of anything other than basically average intelligence. Yeah, pretty easy huh? If anything, the media tends to talk mankind up, not down - and that's a ream of social commentary in itself. And hell, what do we mean by "dork" in the first place, here, huh? Someone different, its that simple, really...

There isn't anything wrong with being a gay, black, atheist dork with no high school education. Not as long as you have money.

[Noble Savage]

I find the Trust in non blood relationships totally unnatural ,its something I have learned (not entirely)but not something I have been born with (except parental ) . Is this personal experience or do you think it's a common human fault?

[Tom Paine]

You guys are so anti-social.

Hardly. Just realistic.

There isn't anything wrong with being a gay, black, atheist dork with no high school education. Not as long as you have money.

So.... trying to prove my point here are we, then? Because essentially it comes down to mankind is a bastard, except when there's something in it for them to not be.

[Amorphos]

Because essentially it comes down to mankind is a bastard, except when there’s something in it for them to not be.

not really, people are judgemental because it is a function of the intellect, then when they meet someone whom is the kind of person they judge harshly, they tend to change their minds. similarly if you talk to people making a good point as to why their judgements are false, then they will listen and change their tune, rather than being seen as of a lesser intellect.

basically this is how we advance, thus our consequent direct looks promising to me.

[infernocanuck]

I would argue, or perhaps more accuratly, believe that the "base" human nature is ignorance and impulsivity. I don't want to go much into my religious or professional background, but my experience is that the human brain is the model of human nature:

The human brain has a multitude of systems, regions, structures, what-have-you. Much of these systems have evolved, adapted to meet certain requirments: environmental or internal. There is much talk of the "lower brain", the area of the brain that regulates the need to eat, drink, reproduce, etc. One could even argue that some vices, such as selfishness, adultery and cruelty are adaptations, adaptations that can influence us. This is where my conclusions of "impulsivity" comes from.

As far as ignorance, the brain, for sake of it's own energy, must generalize. If I were to look at every car in a parking lot independantly, examining each and every feature that makes that car a car.. and then do the same thing to the next vehicle, and the next.. I would be in that parking lot for decades. You need to generalize, you need to quickly identify things. However, the problem is that we use the exact same generalizations toward people: Sterotypes, assumtions, etc. This is my "ignorance" argument.

However, I don't think everything is doom and gloom. I believe that human beings -also- the ability of... "cultivation" (to use Confucist terminology). That is, we have the ability to change these things, overide negative impulses and truly learn about people. This isn't some strange concept far away, it lies within our brain: The forebrain. It can and does override the human so-called "lower brain" (or certain aspects of it) I'm not going to get into details, but suffice to say, that area is pretty much intrinsic and nessesary to human beings, it allows us to control our behavior, and gives us "free will".

I argue that we must acknowledge our biology,so we can "overcome" our negative, anti-social and greedy behavior, and (at least) -strive- to become moral, deep and cultivated human beings.

[Amorphos]

generally people are nice and just want to get by in life. it has little to do with genetics, its like nature built a computer that can do what it wants and has the physical and mental dexterity to achieve what it wants.

[Thanatos]

I am a bit of a pessimist, so forgive me if I sound too bleak.

If things continue as they are, say for the next two hundred years, you will have such bleak futures as that portrayed by Aldous Huxley's and George Orwell's works.

[Chaigidel]

I totally agree with the original poster, -- my own addition is that human beings are great apes who have waaaaaay too much brain, we are still bound by our most basic animal instincts yet we feign sentience.-- its a dangerous time for us I would think for any species that could reach this point. when the animal must be shed in place of the mind( thus moving away from our basic corruptions (? maybe?))

[David Deas]

You guys are so anti-social.

[Thanatos]

What, in being pessimisstic?

[Amorphos]

chia

my own addition is that human beings are great apes who have waaaaaay too much brain

are we though? we may correlate aspects from one species to the next, but not define them by it. we are human and belong to the ‘humanative’ - universal human nature, thus evolution moved towards us [as far as our path is concerned] as we belong to it’s full path in the greater scheme of things. in other words; imagine evolution in non-linear terms as an entire entity in principle potential and spirit.
secondly; the human soul is not of the ape archetype,we are a different entity with a divine essence which gives us an inner truth - the more you see your own soul within, then the more we see divinity and truth.

and in the tertiary; we are... more importantly, our minds are greater than the sum of its parts! whatever people here believe atheist or not the human brain is well capable of working beyond its animal natures instincts and behaviourisms.

so stop being so pessimistic people - the human being is a truly amazing creature!

[ENSAIS]

"Man"kind inplies the traditional male pronoun "his".

Personally, I think Hobbs pretty much has it right on life (nasty, brutish, short) and on human nature (nasty, brutish, egotistical).

[Tom Paine]

Liberal does not mean disciplined or polite. I'd also argue that we aren't getting less well behaved, we are just expressing it in different ways and more clearly - a pretty much inverse one. There are more of us, by far, than before; and more ways to be public in misbehaving; and these combine to give the impression of greater amounts of indiscipline.

As to that "prime minister" bit... that reference I missed.

[Curtana]

So the rise in the prison population and antisocial behaviour doesn't do it for you then? How about increased hard drug use and alcoholism? The rise in A&E admissions due to violence? Yeah, this ****ry's (sorry, just spelt country minus the o - my mistake) just a bed of roses – with lots of very long, sharp thorns. I have heard it said that liberal means good intentioned. Good intentions that lead straight to hell that is.
Like it or not modern society IS the current nature of humanity. We are what we do. My advice is to go and live somewhere where people are less unpleasant. If we excuse or manifest unpleasantness by blaming it on our increasing numbers then we're on an express train to dumpsville. We should stop excusing ourselves and try and improve ourselves (although I myself am no better).

You've made me so depressed I'm off to read something cheery like 'Yes Minister' or 'Yes Prime Minister'. Cover to cover universal truths imo. Greater tomes of political wisdom than have ever before or since graced this foul and tortured land. Wonderful faith in humanity too – or possibly not, minister.

[Tom Paine]

I might point out that rising as they are, how much are they rising as a proportion, rather than an absolute? None of the quoted figures actually do anything to disavow or disprove my hypothesis. As to the prison population, more and more crimes are being punished with prison; so logically, more criminals go to prison.