Gamebreaking issues: consolidation and troop quality

[bacchus731]

I stopped playing vanilla because the campaign AI couldn't consolidate its troops, and because it produced too many low quality troops.

Lands to Conquer, the mod, fixed those two issues to a great extent, but LTC is too vanilla.

Now I'm trying TLR and, after having played 50+ turns, I see no evidence that either of those two game breaking issues for me have been fixed.

I play as Byzantium and have been attacked by the Seljuks and the Sicilian Kingdom. The Sicilians keep unloading troops on my western shore containing no more than 4-5 units, while the Seljuks must be trying to reinvent stupidity by sending squads of 2-4 troops through the Hellespont in quick succession. Same thing is happening with ships, you just never see a fleet of more than 2-4 ships.

Now I can't confirm yet whether or not the AI is building more quality troops (don't know this mod's units yet and everybody's kinda stuck playing with spearmen and peasant archers for the first 100 turns, which is a 3rd criticism), but it doesn't appear so.

If the mod "Lands to Conquer" can fix this, why can't you do it?

[Xeno_cws]

Simply put because your only 50 turns in. It takes a long time before you see full fledge armies. But once you get up there (in years), you'll see several large stacks being sent against you.

If you read around you'll see that the first 50-100 turns is all about economy and taking a few rebel settlements. After you built up your bank account thats when you start expanding.

I also played Lands to Conquer, and I prefer this one because of the fact that it takes so long to build up.


Edit- Also all the good quality units come later, you can't build them right away. Your able to build mail and plate armour units only after the event.

[bacchus731]

Simply put because your only 50 turns in. It takes a long time before you see full fledge armies. But once you get up there (in years), you'll see several large stacks being sent against you.

If you read around you'll see that the first 50-100 turns is all about economy and taking a few rebel settlements. After you built up your bank account thats when you start expanding.

I also played Lands to Conquer, and I prefer this one because of the fact that it takes so long to build up.


Edit- Also all the good quality units come later, you can't build them right away. Your able to build mail and plate armour units only after the event.

Yes, I also like this mod better than LTC and would not go back. I am a fan already. Howerver, as I said, consolidation and troop quality are game breakers for me and this mod doesn't have the first one, and don't seem to have the second one either.

Despite your comment, the issues are still there.

I know it takes 50-100 turns to build up. But the consolidation problem can already be witnessed at this point as I have described in my original post.

As for the problem of troop quality, I said I could not confirm yet because I had not played long enough, but I suspect it hasn't.


I understand the AI will make bigger, "full fledged" armies later, but I will remind you that this is the case in Vanilla as well. The fact that the AI sometimes creates larger stacks - and does more of it once it's got cash, access to multiple troop options, and more provinces, does not negate the issue I have with consolidation.

The fact is that the AI in this game just as in Vanilla sucks at consolidating it's troops.

If you have played LTC, you know what I mean by "fixing consolidation", and making better troop quality. In LTC, you don't see as many little orphan troops of 2-4 units wondering aimlessly about each other, and entering enemy provinces without consolidating.

I would LOVE to see the fix they have in LTC applied to this mod, which is so great in many other areas (LOVE the large map, the character developments, the titles, the skins, etc) Kudos to torn.

[Xeno_cws]

Nah I didn't see it as coming across rude, I thought it was a well constructed complaint truth be told.

As for low quality small armies in the beginning I believe that it is design by Torn.

However some people don't seem to be keen on this and have made some slight modifications to the game to suit themselves.

Build times:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81486

Scroll down a bit.


Tips for getting raking in the money:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=103535


Also I know there is a mod maker around here (looked but couldn't find the topic) who is erasing the events for mail/plate and various other tweaks. I also believe he wants the factions to start producing full stacks earlier (can't quote that though).

He is, though, waiting for the next release.

A quick fix if you want to have large stacks sooner is just to edit their starting funds. Give them a 100,000 each that should speed up the development quite quickly but not enough to make it silly.


Can't think of anything else other than that. Personally I enjoy the low quality low army scenario in the beginning, since battles play out differently before I start getting access to catapults, longbow men (I love playing as the English) and dismounted swordsmen.


Hope this helped a little bit.

[bacchus731]

I did not meam for this to come as harshly as it could be perceived.

Rather, I want to know if the issues I raised are due to design decisions, technical problems, or simply oversights.

Also I wanted to sound off and see what others think.