Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Hi,

    Just started a campaign as Flanders in DLV + Zapppas submod and RC and I'm loving it. I wish I could replay the "Battle of the Golden Spurs" with this setting...

    Just because I was dreaming about the battle this afternoon (away from home and no chance to play!), i wrote a little piece about it (with the help of Wiki and my own history-lessons at shool; I am no historian, so forgive any errors).

    I hope it convinces some of you to play as the small County of Flanders.

    I would like to dedicate it to Zapppa, for his beautiful work on the Flemish faction...


    Prologue

    The origin of the conflict between Flanders and France was the reluctance of the Flemish counts to obey the French. In fact, even though the French King was the souverin of Flanders by feodal law, Flanders had a closer relation with England due to the intense wool-trade. The feodal system in Flanders had been lessened in any case due to the power of the cities Bruges, Ghent and Ypres, all rich through trade.


    When England and France went to war with each other in 1294, Flanders sided with England, resulting in a French invasion of the region. King Edward I of England initially sent a relieve force, but quickly withdrew it after his unilateral ceasefire with France in 1298. Outnumbered and abandoned, the Flemish army surrendered in 1300. Several Flemish lords, among whom the count Gwijde de Dampiere himself, were taken hostage as an insurance of the Flemish obedience.

    However, the French King Philip VI "De Shoone" ("the beautiful") raised ever higher taxes on his newly subdued vassal, especially targeting the Flemisch guildmembers and common people and sparing the French-minded patricians (called “leliaards” referring to the lily, symbol of the French king).
    In March 1302 the commoners and guilds of Ghent and Bruges revolted. The French Viceroy Jacques de Chatillon, responded with military force. Ghent quickly subdued, but when Guy occupied Bruges with his small army and expelled the revolters, they responded with deadly vengeance. On May 18, 1302 (Good Friday) at the time of the morning prayers (“Metten”), the commoners of Bruges brutally murdered almost every person in the city who was suspected to be French or to have french sympathies, an event remembered today as the "Brugse Metten". Guy the Chatillon, however, managed to escape…
    Allegedly, the commoners used the pass phrase “Scild ende Vrind” (“Shield and Friend”) to distinguish between Flemish and French speaking (who could not pronounce the phrase correctly) people , instantly killing the former.


    The battle

    The French King was furious and ordered a massive punitive expedition against Flanders. It is rumored that during the march to Flanders, the French nobles in the army carried brooms instead of lances, symbolizing their intention to “sweep” through Flanders and crush this “peasant revolt”.
    The French army arrived at Kortrijk, a Flemish border town (at the time still under French occupation) in july 1302. It counted about 2500 heavy noble cavalry, 1000 crossbowmen, 1000 Pikemen and 3500 other infantry, totaling 8000 battle-hardened soldiers.
    They were met by the Flemish army, a varied mix of well-equipped town militia. Many of them carried the legendary "Goedendag", a 1,5m long wooden club tipped with a heavy steel point, suited both for stabbing and bashing, which could also be stuck but-in-the-ground to counter cavalry attacks. The Flemish forces totaled around 9000, but only 400 of those were noble cavalry, which put the Flemish forces at a huge theoretical disadvantage.

    On july 11th, both forces engaged on a boggy field near Kortrijk. Fearing the French cavalry, the Flemish army deployed behind two brooks in the field.
    The battle started with skirmishes between the missile troops of both armies, but the Flemish archers quickly ran out of arrows and had to retreat. Then the French infantry advanced and pressed hard on the Flemish militia forces. Meanwhile, the French nobles ordered servants to fill the brooks to allow them to cross and join the fray.
    Seeing the distress of the Flemish army and fearing a collapse before he could fight, the French supreme Commander, Robert d’ Artois, ordered his winning infantry to withdraw, so his nobles could have the honor of winning the day.
    This decision proved disastrous: the brooks were far from filled by the time the nobles got to them, forcing a slow crossing. On the other side, the Flemish troops were too close to allow the French cavalry to build up sufficient speed to break the lines. It was slaughter…

    There is still discussion whether it was so ordered or due to ignorance of the Flemish militia forces, but contrary to the custom at the time the Flemish forces gave no quarter, killing the French nobles as they lay immobile and vulnerable from their horses.

    Here, custom says, the Goedendag earned his name: the weakest spot in the French armor was at the neck, so the Flemish forces aimed at that part with their pikes. Apparently, because of the impact of these thrusts, the French nobles’ heads jerked forward, as if they were nodding their last greeting! (Goedendag is the Flemish greeting “Good day”)

    Outcome

    The battle ended in a rout of the French army, and on the battlefield at least 500 golden (or rather gilded) spurs were recovered, giving the Battle his name “Gulden Sporenslag” (“Battle of the Golden Spurs”). Only high French nobility could afford golden spurs, with lesser knights carrying silver or iron spurs. This should give an idea of the disaster to the French!

    Both the French Supreme Commander Robert d' Artois and the former Viceroy of Flanders Jacques de Chatillon were among the casualties.

    Seven days later, it is said, Pope Bonifatius VIII in Rome was woken with the news that for the first time in history a militia infantry army had beaten a nobility cavalry army in a major battle. Although Flanders quickly had to make territorial concessions to the French in a treaty in 1305 after several defeats and indisive battles, Flanders had gained an important independent status. Although Gwijde van Dampiere (captured again after a defeat in 1304) was reinstated as the Count of Flanders, he was never allowed to leave his imprisonment in the dungeon of Compiègne.

    The Birthday of this battle is still remembered every year, as it is the national holiday of the Flemish Community in Belgium. Also, our national anthem is loosely based on this battle, reminding what happens to those who think the lion (Flanders) small and weak...


    "Vlaanderen die Leeu!" is said to have been the battle-cry of the Flemish militia, meaning "Flanders, the Lion!", referring to the lion on our flag to date...
    Wish I could do some voice acting for Flanders now...
    Last edited by Belgae; June 08, 2007 at 08:30 AM.
    Horum Omnium Fortissimi Sunt Belgae


  2. #2
    ZaPPPa's Avatar RTR co-daddy
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    San Jose,CA
    Posts
    1,513

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    That's a cool story. Never heard it before.

    Makes me wish we'd have a Friesland faction. One of the few tribes in Europe never conquered by the Romans. They had a treaty with the Romans, but that relationship went bad after they hung the Roman taxman when they thought the taxes got too high.

  3. #3
    Lord Finga's Avatar Decanus
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cologne, Germany
    Posts
    501

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    @Belgae:

    great story! however, you don't have to convince me to play flanders. i love playing small factions with good infantry and flanders is one of my favourites to play with!

    INVENTOR OF THE SettlementOccupiedScript v08 #4(SOS) for dlv 3.0
    INVENTOR OF THE ChangeCapital v2.04 for dlv 5.2

  4. #4

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    hi,,

    i m french, love history,, you right we call this battle in france, " la bataille des eperons d or" or " la bataille de courtrai", one of our worst defait,,,, begining was good we sent the foot infantry into battle but one more time our knight don't wait to see and just run to the enemy kiling in this move our own foot infantry , also the flemish was cover by ground defence ,, first big lose of our knight other will follow cause of the same stupid reason ( don't want to wait to fight when you see a enemy just go and kill him ( cf poitier, crecy, hazincourt)

    ps , the end of the story is really more bloody for the city of courtray, after the battle they put all the golden spurs in the courtray cathedral,AFTER 70 YEARS LATER, Charle VI OF FRANCE CALL THE FOL,,came to coutray to pray into the cathedral when he see the golden spurs he just decide to kill every one and take back this precious golden spurs,, honor was safe,,,, not so sure;;;;;;;


    one more little funny thing,, do you know why to say ****k youu we put one finger in the air ??,, it s coming after the battle of azincourt , after the terrible defait cause by the english archer it was common in french army to cut the finger of the english archer after take them, as they will never be able to use their longbow again,, so to scoff at the french knight , they was pointing the 2 fingers use for fire in the air mean look , we still have our fingers and sitll able fire so take care,, after many many year we still use this action to say ****kkk yoou but only with one finger and not 2


    that the story of ****kc of act

  5. #5

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Quote Originally Posted by drikc77 View Post
    hi,,

    ps , the end of the story is really more bloody for the city of courtray, after the battle they put all the golden spurs in the courtray cathedral,AFTER 70 YEARS LATER, Charle VI OF FRANCE CALL THE FOL,,came to coutray to pray into the cathedral when he see the golden spurs he just decide to kill every one and take back this precious golden spurs,, honor was safe,,,, not so sure;;;;;;;
    Not only in coutray, but the statues on the houses of the grand place in Brugges has the golden spurs. The gilds melted the spurs and putted as a golden layer on the statues.
    So you must think how many gold there was in those days and how rich the knights of france where!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgae View Post


    "Vlaanderen die Leeu!" is said to have been the battle-cry of the Flemish militia, meaning "Flanders, the Lion!", referring to the lion on our flag to date...[/COLOR]
    its 'leeuw' in dutch nice read though

  7. #7
    ZaPPPa's Avatar RTR co-daddy
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    San Jose,CA
    Posts
    1,513

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Fuji,

    Not necessarely. Check this website: http://www.mieliestronk.com/leeu.html
    This website is Afrikaans (or boers). I'm not fluent in ancient Vlaams, but Belgae may be right. The Flemish speak a dialect of Dutch.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    hehe...

    zapppa 's got it.
    In current Flemish, the "W" is there now as well, but I wanted to have that medieval feel...
    Horum Omnium Fortissimi Sunt Belgae


  9. #9

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Belgae is right. Vlaanderen die Leeu. It uses the original flemish words; Not the modern Dutch we speak now in Flanders and Holland.
    "He who controls the past controls the future.’ (George Orwell)

  10. #10

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Nice post!

  11. #11
    eggthief's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    5,562

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambiorix_thijs View Post
    Belgae is right. Vlaanderen die Leeu. It uses the original flemish words; Not the modern Dutch we speak now in Flanders and Holland.
    Ah well, at least it makes u guys a bit more understandable for the Dutch people

  12. #12
    Harry Lime's Avatar Not a ToS violation
    Artifex Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Kent, England
    Posts
    15,771

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    @Ambiorix_thijs

    What page did you find this on? It's like 9 months old. I thought for a second Belgae had come in from the cold like Furin.
    Proud Patron of derdrakken, dave scarface, J@mes & irishron
    Indulging in the insight & intelligence of imb39

  13. #13

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Did the thread started mean "Real Combat" when he wrote:

    Just started a campaign as Flanders in DLV+ Zapppas submod and RC and I'm loving it. I wish I could replay the "Battle of the Golden Spurs" with this setting... "

    Can Real Combat be used with DLV?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scalylizard View Post
    Did the thread started mean "Real Combat" when he wrote:

    Just started a campaign as Flanders in DLV+ Zapppas submod and RC and I'm loving it. I wish I could replay the "Battle of the Golden Spurs" with this setting... "

    Can Real Combat be used with DLV?
    Seconded, did someone get RC working with the later DLV versions now? I just can't bring myself to play M2 without RealCombat now, as I'm still playing DLV 4.0.3 w/ RC values- I tried out Stainless Steel, which the latest RealCombat version was actually released for, but without a garrison script of any sort, the game is about as fun as a boxing match with a 6 yr old- just completely challenge-free as the AI doesn't garrison its' cities, and simply stands field armies around to watch as you rape and pillage with glee. I prefer DLV's much slower pace anyway, but don't really enjoy the RealCombat-less gameplay of any past v4.0.3, which is still my mod of choice for M2.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Yup, i searched for Flanders, im am trying to find what i have to do to play with them, what mod it is, can it be played on vanilla, what units there are, pictures of the units, of the cities of the Campaign map. Colours etc...
    "He who controls the past controls the future.’ (George Orwell)

  16. #16
    Manco's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Curtrycke
    Posts
    15,076

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Just want to add some stuff,...
    It's becoming more and more certain that during the 'Brugse Metten' the rallying cry was not 'Schild en vriend' for the simple reason that at that time in Flanders, primarely the part now known as West-Flanders, the Flemish would have also yelled 'Scild en vriendt'. Almost the same as the French, this because the 'SCH'-sound had not yet developed.
    Some people have proposed an alternative: 'Des gilden vriendt' meaning friend of the guilds, plausible because the s and g in deS Gilden would be pronounced as the 'sch' now and impossible for the French to pronounce correct. One problem with this explanation is that it's quite early to mention guilds, meaning either guilds were established earlier than originally thought in these parts, the 'sch'-sound appeared earlier or it was something entirely else they yelled.
    (PS: I'm from Kortrijk/Courtrai and we still pronounce the 'sch' as 'sk', similar to the French)

    Also, popular history often claims this to be a battle between Flemish 'peasants' and French 'nobles', while in reality those peasants were some of the best trained and motivated infantrymen in Europe and probably the world. Not only did they use the 'Godendac' (which could also be the descendant of an ancient Celtic/Belgic weapon and have nothing to do with 'Good Day', but this is still unsure), it was also in the Low Countries that the pike was reintroduced (one of the few things Vanilla M2TW had correct) which ofcourse was ideally suited to stop the French Cavalry. Just imagine as a French nobleman first hitting a phalanx-like wall of pikes, then being swarmed by well-trained and heavily armed men whose weapon, the Godendac, was ideally suited to fight against both mail (the point) and plate (the mace-part).
    I've actually heard some theories the famed 'Swiss Pikemen' were originally based on the Flemish infantry but this might be wishful thinking from some romantic historians. Then again, it is possible that they copied it from their wars against the Habsburgers and Burgundians.
    Some day I'll actually write all the reviews I keep promising...

  17. #17

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Its an important Battle because its the first time an infantryarmy defeats a cavalry-based-army.
    "He who controls the past controls the future.’ (George Orwell)

  18. #18

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    It's just a minor happening in world history, just a rebellious uprising that succeeded nothing more.
    Roma, Acta est Fabula
    Released! version 0.9B of the mayor overhaul mod for IB2 Vandalorum

  19. #19

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Rex Inanimatus lol mate, you know about history.
    Off course it doesnt matter for Africa or Asia or The Americas.

    but hell man, it was an important victory because it showed the way that an infantry army could kill a cavalrycharge.
    Even the pope was suprised when he heard the message.
    +
    The fact that the richest part of western europe did not belong to the French was very important. The low countries are the knife on the heeart of England,always have, always been. IF france controls that, they would have been alot more powerfull, i can assure you that.
    "He who controls the past controls the future.’ (George Orwell)

  20. #20

    Default Re: Vlaanderen die Leeu!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambiorix_thijs View Post
    Rex Inanimatus lol mate, you know about history.
    Off course it doesnt matter for Africa or Asia or The Americas.

    but hell man, it was an important victory because it showed the way that an infantry army could kill a cavalrycharge.
    Even the pope was suprised when he heard the message.
    +
    The fact that the richest part of western europe did not belong to the French was very important. The low countries are the knife on the heeart of England,always have, always been. IF france controls that, they would have been alot more powerfull, i can assure you that.
    I won't deny that the low countries played a significant role in world history. After the Eighty years war the Dutch came out as the most powerful country in the world, having the first Multinational : (Vereenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie) and having the first stock market crisis : Tulipmania in 1637 though all these things are way beyond the DLV period.
    Roma, Acta est Fabula
    Released! version 0.9B of the mayor overhaul mod for IB2 Vandalorum

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •