What's the population requirements for upgrading cities/castles?

[Richard]

for instance instead of 12,00 in vanilla it appears the requirement for a large city is now 5000 people? Could someone tell me the other population requirements (and if I'm correct)?

[tornnight]

Here you go. Straight from the descr_settlement_mechanics.xml file.

<population_levels>
<!-- city -->
<level name="village" base="250" upgrade="500" min="100" max="750"/>
<level name="town" base="500" upgrade="1000" min="100" max="2000"/>
<level name="large_town" base="1000" upgrade="2500" min="100" max="5000"/>
<level name="city" base="2500" upgrade="5000" min="100" max="7500"/>
<level name="large_city" base="5000" upgrade="7500" min="100" max="10000"/>
<level name="huge_city" base="7500" min="100" max="15000"/>
<!-- castle -->
<level name="moot_and_bailey" base="250" upgrade="500" min="100" max="750"/>
<level name="wooden_castle" base="500" upgrade="1000" min="100" max="2000"/>
<level name="castle" base="1000" upgrade="2500" min="100" max="5000"/>
<level name="fortress" base="2500" upgrade="5000" min="100" max="7500"/>
<level name="citadel" base="5000" min="100" max="10000"/>
</population_levels>

[Richard]

Ah thanks, I was guessing Huge city was about 6-7k now. While we're on the topic, what's with the starting populations all being about 250 (at least in Northern Italy)?

http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm
^ neat resource there

[Crimson Scythe]

You could also just hover the cursor over the population number when the city scroll is open (the one where you choose the construction queue). It'll tell you the population level you need to reach in order to upgrade.

[Hanny]

Can i ask what the rational for such lowish numbers to become the next settlement size?, since all that really happens is the city gets more free defenses?, why not double the numbers for instance, what would be the ramification?, i dont readily understand the reason for such low numbers.

[tornnight]

Population has a very big effect on both trade and tax income. It gets very hard to control and balance factions if some cities have high populations.
Their income just grows out of control.

[Hanny]

Well yes, thats why i wondered why you have the pop level threshold so low, its makes it easier to happen what you commented on.

[tornnight]

Ahh I see what you mean. Because the income at those minimum levels is still appropriate. It's only when it gets really large that it's unmanagable.

[Richard]

Wouldn't it be better to have them at least start a bit higher? Venice starting with about 400 people in the year 1080 just doesn't seem right =(

[Hanny]

Ahh I see what you mean. Because the income at those minimum levels is still appropriate. It's only when it gets really large that it's unmanagable.

Well ive not looked at in depth, just wondered what problems you found when it was higher, what i understand you to be saying is that if the threshold is higher tha acounting formula increases, however since pop continues to grow beyond the threshold, it will produce a predictable increase without being out of control, im assuming there is a modifier somewhere, what i dont understand why this is not applied to the settlement threshold regardless of pop size.

Now if for instance thresholds were doubled, and you gain more income, ( your going to get the pop anyway, its just the threshold of passing to next city size that seems to be where i dont understand whats happeing in the maths for income) you can always reduce it by haveing squaler as a base horror taking it away again, and retarding squaler by building bonuses.

[tornnight]

They represent taxable population, not the run of the mill peasant.

Remember in MTW2, recruitment does not reduce population.

[Hanny]

Intrestingly "Power and profit", The Merchant in Medieval europe ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Power-Profit...1551484&sr=1-2has the tax paying % of many nation states and charts the rise of this for of revenue, and bank acounts etc, so in 1250 or so 15% of most Italian citys were those paying tax and no one else.

[tornnight]

Nope thats not what I mean. The thresholds themselves have no effect. They are pretty much arbitrary except that they sort of limit income in that particular 'era'.

I used to have the maximum caps at around 120k since some cities did reach that size in total population. I managed it by modifying the multipliers for tax and trade income down. The problem is that the game doesn't correctly represent the trade multiplier when looking at the trade screen. So in order to keep that screen accurate, I looked for other ways to keep trade income in check. Population and Trade Bonus being the only 2 left.

[Hanny]

Ah, i see where your coming from better now.

Not something ive looked at in depth yet, and it appears its can or worms for a rainy afternoon.

[Leonidas300]

Hi!

I would just like to know what year or how many turns do i have to pass in order for me to get the event which allows me to upgrade my stone walls, so that I may be able to build more buildings?:hmmm:

By the way I simply love The LONG ROAD, infact i think that they should have made this the original game to begin with!

Keep up the good work!

Leonidas300 :smileybri