Post your game (hotfix 1.11)

[Drtad]

Yeah. Since there wasn't a thread for posting your empire and writing feedback for it I thought I'd post one. I started my Roman campaign. Even though I only fought one battle I am already bored to death, but I shall be resiliant. A few turns have passed in my campaign, and I made peace with Epirus so that I can deal with the Frees in peace. I built up and sent republican legion I and defeated the people of Croton in a large, epic battle. I am starting to move against Cannae. Pergamum has its sights set on the Lesbians. Nothing much else so far.

[pseudocaesar]

yeh Pergamum love Miletos i dont know why, they just keep trying and trying to take it.

[dvk901]

yeh Pergamum love Miletos i dont know why, they just keep trying and trying to take it.

I tried every trick I could think of to stop them from doing that. But they insist every single time. That's why I took it away from Macedon and gave it to the Free People. Otherwise, they ended up in a war with Macedon right away. I even tried allying them with Macedon...they still attacked it anyway.

Well, I was doing tests on a number of factions...but have played Rome the most. (surprise)
I am in the year 234BC, and have just taken Illyria and Dalmatia from Epirus and the Free People respectively. I was at peace with Epirus for many years...but all of a sudden they decide to attack me when I took Salona from the FP's....so I punished them by taking Segestica.

My feeling is, so far, that this is more what a '1' turn player would enjoy. Frankly, I don't.
Money is very tight. I can build enough to keep people happy...just....but the game pace is very slow and tedious. Many end turns without a battle or even a hint of one. Just build a building, tweak a city or two, end turn...ho-hum. Whereas before I was having furious battles with a number of factions every turn, now it seems no one is willing to attack for fear of losing an army. I've been at war with Gaul for about 10 years...they have 4-5 armies of powerful units just waiting....but have never yet attacked or done anything except blockade a port (which started the war).

As was desired by some....there are far fewer armies around. It probably needs a bit more balancing because Pontus and Sarmatia are both gone. (Pontus never did much) Syracuse was so badly on the ropes they had lost all their settlements except Syracuse, and carthage was seiging it. Somehow, they beat that off, regrouped, and have now kicked Carthage out of Sicily! A pretty miraculous come back for the AI.

Although I don't mind the better distribution of happiness, health and law bonuses, I'd have to say I find this style of play a bit boring......to tears. With the previous settings, I had had numerous violent battles with the Rebels and Free People, lost numerous whole Legions, and by this time was supporting 23 (I think it was) Legions up against who knows how many other armies....it was going to be a real epic struggle. But now, my economy can only support 9 Legions by the same date. I guess that makes some people happy, but I think it sucks. I can almost predict what will happen.....I will defeat the armies of my foes, who will not be able to replace them as quickly as before, and I will roll over them like a snowplow in the fog!! They'll never see what hit them. So once they're few protecting armies are gone, I'll be able to walk in and take anything I want.

So there you have it. What I have implemented I basically do not like. My opponents and myself simply don't have enough money to make it much fun. I just sit there clicking end turn and watching my General's die of old age instead of in GLORIOUS BATTLES like true Romans should.

[Angel]

Carthage REPORT!
I am going to post my new edu.txt today. Cant wait maybe dvk can put it into a hotfix or what not. Big changes. ok ok back to the point.

Ive onlyed played few turns. Ive am war with syracuse,Rome. Ill be soon war with Iberia too. I am start 3 armies. 1 in iberia penisulla, 2nd in sicily, 3rd in africa. of course theyll be sub armies to support my big boys . Syracuse is tough! my battles are harder and I dont even know what to do in some times. I just need to hear what people think. Free people's army tougher than ever. Ill make a serious report soon. chow!

[Deus ret.]

So there you have it. What I have implemented I basically do not like. My opponents and myself simply don't have enough money to make it much fun. I just sit there clicking end turn and watching my General's die of old age instead of in GLORIOUS BATTLES like true Romans should.

Well.....I think this was basically what the changes were aimed at, yes. A more cautious game pace, fewer armies, more carefully considered strategic decisions instead of spawning armies after armies and attacking regardless of the outcome (because the next army would be ready anyway). You're right in that the mod has now probably lost something which made it kind of unique compared to, say, EB where you can be lucky if you field a half stack without dropping into the red.

But.... the alternative as I see it is to leave things as they were before, with high bonuses on everything, high casualties and an overall high cycling rate of armies and generals. Since money wouldn't be a problem, especially if only three or four full stacks are sufficient to hold an empire together (Greece is a good example), people would just amass ridiculous amounts of money they'd never need - except for "Rome Total Shopping" as someone mentioned in another thread. Managing cities would become irrelevant because of happiness and money being so abundant; basically all one would have to do is queue enough units every turn and bring them up to the front where they'd be sent to the slaughter. Winning or losing wouldn't really matter anyway because there'd be enough cash to just recruit another army.

This may also be called 'epic', yes.... I suppose it's a matter of perspective? Don't get me wrong, I like the 'extreme' style of the mod which is still present even with the new settings. I just think that it wouldn't be too good a thing to revert to the over-the-top extremity which the mod embodied before the hotfix. .... well, it's your mod, and I'll play it anyway just what I thought.

[rory o'kane]

how about an "old-school economy" patch when RS 2 comes out, for the HUGE ASS battles?

[dvk901]

Perhaps, all of this, is based upon my concern that a Roman player may not even be able to field the Legions I put in this mod. If that is the case, then the effort becomes pointless, and the slots wasted on Legions than could never even be fielded. That's one reason I'm persisting in this campaign to see for myself if that is the case. I suppose that sounds onesided and pretty Roman-tainted thinking, but afterall, this mod was built around those Legions.

I may well be wrong, and find that it is possible. However, I have to say that in comparing my first campaign with the released settings, and the second with these....I much preferred the former.

Also, I don't want to lose the people who like this style of play by forcing on them a style more like TE or RTR. I would prefer a 'middle-road'.

As far as what is required to maintain an empire, I'm certain that a less 'cautious' player than myself could maintain the territory I have now with much less. I am very 'defense conscious'....so tend to over-build my military.
Would that mean then, that even further cuts should be made because a guy who can do with 5 armies what I do with 9 complains he has too much money?

At some point, you gotta say...'this is the middle-road'. But if you and others think it still has that 'epic' feel regardless, then I'd be happy.

And funny you should mention that 'Rome Total Shopping' comment. If you can picture the look on my face when I read that....well, it wasn't pretty. My first though was, "I'm going to find out a way to remove 'bribing' from this game if it kills me!"

[Deus ret.]

As far as what is required to maintain an empire, I'm certain that a less 'cautious' player than myself could maintain the territory I have now with much less. I am very 'defense conscious'....so tend to over-build my military.
Would that mean then, that even further cuts should be made because a guy who can do with 5 armies what I do with 9 complains he has too much money?

A good point, it occurred to me only after I wrote the last post. Well, I suppose there actually are some people around who would rake in immense amounts of cash even under EB circumstances....but I agree, this kind of concept has taken the game too far into an economic empire.management thing. And even though I really like that aspect of the game it shouldn't be overstretched.

And funny you should mention that 'Rome Total Shopping' comment. If you can picture the look on my face when I read that....well, it wasn't pretty. My first though was, "I'm going to find out a way to remove 'bribing' from this game if it kills me!"

That's entirely right. But the sad thing is....it's true! When I played the GSC I could almost have alternated between annihilating a stack and bribing one (which could have helped in defeating the next stack), and that was still within the first ten or fifteen years of the campaign.

So in line with cherryfunk's comment I'd opt for a moderate change. If I got you right it wasn't happiness that posed the main problem but money....thus, decreasing the penalty for taking other regions might do the job. I'm quite optimistic that you'd probably have seen most of the 35 legions even with the new settings since they only existed in full when Rome already owned most of the known world, so a total of 9 with just Italy and Dalmatia doesn't sound too bad. Nevertheless in the spirit of a somewhat more rewarding game play, it might be a good idea to shorten the path to that glory

[cherryfunk]

But.... the alternative as I see it is to leave things as they were before, with high bonuses on everything, high casualties and an overall high cycling rate of armies and generals.

Why not continue tweaking and strive for a middle-road? I think dvk had the right idea, he just maybe went too far. So cut it back a bit, and move towards the looser economy, but not quite as 'Total Shopping' as it was...

[dvk901]

Really, I'm rather enjoying the campaign. I probably overstated my dissatisfaction just because I was having a bad day at work. Grrr. But you're both right, I think just a slight boost in the economy may do the trick.

I'm going to work on an experiment I was thinking about today and see if I can get a better handle on just what some of the numbers mean....that's the frustrating thing about RTW...CA never released a developement guide as to what change 'A' really means to statistic 'B'. So most of the time I'm just guessing and theorizing what a number means, and hoping it's right.

[cherryfunk]

I really can't believe they never bothered to explain what the various stats actually do... I mean come on!

[Drtad]

Okay, I played a few more turns. I attacked the two Free People stacks with Republican Legio II, and crushed them, though not without heavy casualties. I am sieging Cannae and it should be mine soon. I didn't bother to retrain Legion II, quickly garrisoned Croton with light infantry and a governor and sent general Saturninus to draw Pyrrhus out of Calabria. Pyrrhus took the bait but I severely underestimated his pikeman and I forgot about the elephants. I was able to destroy his cavalry, including elphants, completely, take out his son and kill Pyrrhus himself. However, the sheer number of elite and auxiliary pikeman overwhelmed even my last ditch triarii stand, and Pyrrhus's guards charged at my general's flank, a suicide charge but they got Saturninus, while losing Pyrrhus and Kreon. the Epirots won a "Pyrrhic Victory" but I did lose my whole Legio I and the legionary eagle... time to make a new army I guess!

About the rest of the world, nothing is happening. the only thing that happened is Parthia tearing up the Seleucids in the East and taking Media. Pergamum is prepared to storm the Lesbians, and Armenia feels content with garrisoning its capital continuously. Pontus is pooping, and Carthage likewise. Everyone else seems prepared to take on the Free People.

[cherryfunk]

Two things that jump out playing 10 turns as Bosporans:

- Agent movement rates seem much larger, which might be a reflection of the traits? But I actually kind of like this for agents, it much better represents how far someone could travel in 6 months...

- There are mercs available in the Crimea now! And a good selection of them too; Sarmatian cavalry and Greek infantry. The Steppes Warriors do have to go though, replaced by something Scythian I think.

[Drtad]

Currently I am campaigning as Pergamon, and it is a blast!



I own a portion of the Peloponessos and Aetolia, and Delphi will soon be mine. Byzantium, Pergamum, and Ancyra are currently upgrading to Huge Cities, and the rest of my territories are Minor or Large Cities, maybe growth rates should be reduced just a tiny bit. Currently Carthage is about to explode after pounding Syracuse into a pulp, and is expanding in Iberia. Dacia is getting sieged by Free People, they definitely need a big boost. In the East Parthia took Media and halted, now trying to take Thyssagetae. The Seleucids have diverted the majority of their forces against Ptolemy and Pergamon, and is slowly getting pounded by me. Pontus and Armenia have been pretty funny. Armenia did not dare take on the multiple free people stacks in the North Caucasus, and let Pontus waste all its energy doing that. Then Armenia launched a blitzkrieg of Pontus, took out Pontus's only two stack and basicly Pontus has no chance now after losng its capital and another city to Armenia. Epeiros defeated Rome in the Battle of Cannae and concluded a peace treaty. Now Rome is battling to take control of Liguria. Pyrrhus is mopping up Southern Italian Free People, and may soon turn his sights on Rome itself. Macedon is not doing anything but is consolidating its territory. That's basicly it for now.

EDIT: Oh! I didn't notice Macedonia took Athens! I am gonna have to attack them soon.

[cherryfunk]

You went after Sparta first? Interesting tactic...

[Drtad]

You went after Sparta first? Interesting tactic...

I do use rather interesting tactics. I noticed that Sparta's garrison was really weak so I went for it quickly before anyone else could get it after I lost dreadfully at the Battle of Athens.

Anyway, I continued a few more turns and things are looking very bad for Rome and Pontus. Pontus was defeated once more by Armenian stacks and will be gone soon. Rome is doing well in the North, but a reinvigorated Epeiros is driving up from Tarentum. To my delight an horror, Carthage launched a D-Day like invasion of the Italian peninsula, landing three whole stacks from the south off of Neapolis. Rome quickly maneuvered its defensive Republican legions and the battle was a disaster. Rome lost its entire mobile army and now it seems as if the Punic-Epirote alliance is going to divide the Italian peninsula amongst themselves, and then attack each other. I have been dying to face Rome's unique legions in battle, so I am creating Byzantine, Pergamonian, and Ephesian armies to attack Epeiros and take its capital to cripple them, and then I am going to have to do something dangerous and try and sack Carthage. Carthage has at least ten stacks on its borders but little next to Carthage itself, so if I can sack it quickly and hold it, it may buy Rome enough time to rebuild its destroyed armies and push Carthage out of Italy. This is going to be a difficult endeavour because my faction heir with two elite stacks was defeated by four Seleucid elite stacks right next to Antioch, so I have to try and bribe Armenia and Parthia into attacking and thus distracting Seleucia. Carthage is having some trouble in Iberia due to some rebellions.

[dvk901]

I do use rather interesting tactics. I noticed that Sparta's garrison was really weak so I went for it quickly before anyone else could get it after I lost dreadfully at the Battle of Athens.

Anyway, I continued a few more turns and things are looking very bad for Rome and Pontus. Pontus was defeated once more by Armenian stacks and will be gone soon. Rome is doing well in the North, but a reinvigorated Epeiros is driving up from Tarentum. To my delight an horror, Carthage launched a D-Day like invasion of the Italian peninsula, landing three whole stacks from the south off of Neapolis. Rome quickly maneuvered its defensive Republican legions and the battle was a disaster. Rome lost its entire mobile army and now it seems as if the Punic-Epirote alliance is going to divide the Italian peninsula amongst themselves, and then attack each other. I have been dying to face Rome's unique legions in battle, so I am creating Byzantine, Pergamonian, and Ephesian armies to attack Epeiros and take its capital to cripple them, and then I am going to have to do something dangerous and try and sack Carthage. Carthage has at least ten stacks on its borders but little next to Carthage itself, so if I can sack it quickly and hold it, it may buy Rome enough time to rebuild its destroyed armies and push Carthage out of Italy. This is going to be a difficult endeavour because my faction heir with two elite stacks was defeated by four Seleucid elite stacks right next to Antioch, so I have to try and bribe Armenia and Parthia into attacking and thus distracting Seleucia. Carthage is having some trouble in Iberia due to some rebellions.

Wow. That is really an interesting scenario.