Some questions for Orthodox Christians

[RusskiSoldat]

1. While I made up my mind to convert, I will be doing so in Russia in August most likely. Would it be some sort of sacrilege to wear a cross before then?
2. According to some online sources the Orthodox church does not place too much importance in regular attendance. Protestants and catholics in America go to church every Sunday, how regularly do Orthodox attend in comparison?
3. When I do get baptized, as far as I understand, I have to ask for forgiveness for all my sins. Do I have to list everything or do I say something a lot more general?

[GershomPatmos]

1. While I made up my mind to convert, I will be doing so in Russia in August most likely. Would it be some sort of sacrilege to wear a cross before then?
2. According to some online sources the Orthodox church does not place too much importance in regular attendance. Protestants and catholics in America go to church every Sunday, how regularly do Orthodox attend in comparison?
3. When I do get baptized, as far as I understand, I have to ask for forgiveness for all my sins. Do I have to list everything or do I say something a lot more general?

Not orthodox of course, but - will the answer to number 2 help decide how often you will attend? Was that the point of asking? or...??? Was just wondering.

thanks,
Gersh

[RusskiSoldat]

Yes, it will.
I see nothing wrong with following whatever standard there is.

[Zenith Darksea]

Would it be some sort of sacrilege to wear a cross before then?

Of course not. Go ahead and wear it.

According to some online sources the Orthodox church does not place too much importance in regular attendance. Protestants and catholics in America go to church every Sunday, how regularly do Orthodox attend in comparison?

First off, I would just say that you have to be cautious with online sources. Although there are many reputable Orthodox websites (Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Orthodox Church of America, the Antiochian Orthodox Church in the UK, and others), there are also quite a lot of websites put up by minor splinter groups who are annoyed that priests' beards aren't long enough any more, think that diplomatic dialogue is a heresy, and such like. You have to watch out for these.

As to your question, it largely depends on the individual. A devout Orthodox goes every Sunday, and quite often also goes to other services during the week (depending on how much time he/she has available). However, many people just come for Easter and Christmas. I'd recommend that you should come to a Divine Liturgy to take communion at least once a month, though personally I think that Orthodox should go to Church whenever they can. Personal prayer is all well and good, but Orthodoxy's real strength lies in the community aspect. Being a part of a public community is very important.

When I do get baptized, as far as I understand, I have to ask for forgiveness for all my sins. Do I have to list everything or do I say something a lot more general?

No, you don't have to confess at baptism. Some people choose to, though I didn't. The baptism itself wipes out any sins that you've committed without question. Afterwards however you will eventually start having to go to confession regularly. Different parishes have different customs as to how regularly you confess. I confess three times a year, but some churches like it if you confess weekly.

[Dreadking]

1. While I made up my mind to convert, I will be doing so in Russia in August most likely. Would it be some sort of sacrilege to wear a cross before then?

No, of course not. Wear a cross alway's. It shows you've been Christened. I only remove mine when i go swimming.

2. According to some online sources the Orthodox church does not place too much importance in regular attendance. Protestants and catholics in America go to church every Sunday, how regularly do Orthodox attend in comparison?

You can attend as often as you want, although i'm not sure of the strictness of the ROC. I usually attend on Easter (midnight) for the ceremony of the cross and Christmas. I also attend watercross.

3. When I do get baptized, as far as I understand, I have to ask for forgiveness for all my sins. Do I have to list everything or do I say something a lot more general?

No, you do not have to recite all the sins you have made. That's Impossible. In the Macedonian Church we are baptized as babies so i'm not sure what is required to be said. What you do need though, is a Godfather or Godmother to recite the Nicean Creed for you when you are being baptized.



By the way, Zenith Darksea, I thought communion was only given after periods of fasting?

I only recieve communion on Easter or Christmas if i've done a stict 6 week fast. I didn't know you could recieve communion without fasting?

[Zenith Darksea]

I receive communion every week! Well, ordinarily, we in the Greek Archdiocese of Thyateira fast on Wednesdays, Fridays, and on the morning before we go to the Divine Liturgy. Perhaps your Church has a different custom?

As far as I am aware of the other jurisdictions here in Britain though, people take communion every week, and the only corollary is that you have to take confession regularly (some Russian parishes say that you should take it before every communion). But I've never heard that you have to fast for six weeks first.

What you do need though, is a Godfather or Godmother to recite the Nicean Creed for you when you are being baptized.

You do need godparents, but for an adult baptism it is you who recites the Creed, not your godparents.

[RusskiSoldat]

Of course not. Go ahead and wear it.

Wonderful!
And I assume any cross is ok?
I have one inherited from Armenian relatives that was at one point blessed by the head of the Armenian Apostolic Church, but I trust that a cross is a cross regardless?

[Zenith Darksea]

Yes, they're all good, really. When you're baptised though, your godparents will give you a special baptismal cross as well.

[Reaper]

RusskiSoldat, are you converting from Armenian Apostolic Christianity to Russian Orthodoxy? What makes it better in your opinion?

[RusskiSoldat]

No, I'm not converting so much as finding religion, having been an atheist before.
Also, to me the Orthodox church seems to best follow the traditions laid down by the early Christians.

[Thanatos]

...or you could just find a Vatican I church...

But given that you live in Russia, that would probably be next to impossible...

[Zenith Darksea]

...or you could just find a Vatican I church...

But given that you live in Russia, that would probably be next to impossible...

Now now Thanatos, a Vatican I church is only good for the Vatican I Roman Catholic faith, established in the 19th century. If you want to escape the modern heresies/heterodoxies such as Papal infallibility, the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary, the filioque clause (though that particular heterodoxy goes back a bit further), etc, and go back to the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, then you're much better off with Orthodoxy!

But given that you live in Russia, that would probably be next to impossible...

Good thing too, really. It's just a shame that Russia's overrun with Protestants, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses trying to get converts in the wake of communism.

Besides, I think he lives in America.

[Marku]

why would mormons be in russia? o.O

could someone bullet point your reasons why you wud want to be orthdox christian over catholic etc. i'd find it interesting.

[Zenith Darksea]

why would mormons be in russia? o.O

Communism put a big dent in the Russian Orthodox Church. When Communism fell, there was thus a large religious vacuum that a lot of (mostly American) religious groups tried to fill. Fortunately however the Orthodox Church seems to be largely unaffected by them.

Now, why would you want to be Orthodox Christian rather than Catholic or Protestant? Well, first of all I'll give a brief summary, followed by more specific points. For the meaning of the asterisks, see the bottom of the post.

It's not Jewish, but it is Orthodox*.
It's not Roman, but it is Catholic**.
It's not Protestant, but they got their Bible from it***.

Here are a few of my ideas:

1. 'Orthodoxy' means 'right belief' (in Greek it is orthodoxeia). The Orthodox Church preserves the Christian faith as developed by Christ, His Apostles and the Apostolic Church. How did Orthodoxy manage that? Simply by not changing it!

2. The early Christian Church is the vessel of God's revelation, teaching and salvation (as the Scriptures themselves say, contrary to Protestant beliefs of sola scriptura). The Orthodox Church is the historical continuation of that same Christian Church, whereas the Roman Catholic Church split off from it in the Middle Ages after it attempted to change Christian doctrine concerning the role of the Pope (this would develop into the 19th century ideology of Papal infallibility), the procession of the Holy Spirit, and so on. Protestants, when they rebelled from the Roman Catholic Church, knew nothing of Orthodoxy, and pretty much made up a new Christian doctrine from scratch (which, as we are told in the Scriptures, we should not do, for no other foundation may be laid than the one on which the Orthodox Christian Church already rests).

3. The Orthodox Church maintains the communal atmosphere of the early Christian Church. The Roman Catholics imagine that the Pope is a divinely inspired autocrat, which is un-Christian, whereas Protestants believe that each individual is an island in themselves, receiving individual revelation and salvation from God. The early Church saw Christianity as a community of equals, in which all are saved together, and in which everyone relies on everyone else. The only master is Christ (and the Pope is not, despite some Catholic claims, Christ on Earth), and at the same time we humans are all close companions, not individuals. Orthodoxy maintains this.

4. Orthodoxy has far more depth and richness to it than Roman Catholicism or Protestantism. It is not an easy option like Protestantism, and it is not obsessed with legality and definition like Roman Catholicism. As I once read, "Why be Christian 'lite' when you can have it all?"

5. Orthodoxy is, in short, the only intellectually-honest form of Christianity there is.

For a deeper explanation, you might like to look here: http://www.orthodox.clara.net/whyishould.htm

* 'Right-believing'
** 'Universal'
*** It is an oft-forgotten fact that the Bible (in its modern form) was developed around the needs of the Orthodox Church.

[Reaper]

Basically he's doing it because he's Russian.

[therussian]

Communism put a big dent in the Russian Orthodox Church. When Communism fell, there was thus a large religious vacuum that a lot of (mostly American) religious groups tried to fill. Fortunately however the Orthodox Church seems to be largely unaffected by them.

Yeah, a lot of that is happening in Armenia too. A lot of Protestant missionaries are coming and converting people in exchange for jobs and stuff like that. Fortunately it isn't TOO big, but still.

@Dreadking: I don't know about that...I receive Communion every week, but every Sunday, you're supposed to fast until l the get communion (ie, communion should be the first thing you consume on Sunday). Of course, a lot of people don't do that (I don't), but that's what you're supposed to do.

Reaper: RusskiSoldat is Russian, but he's also Armenian.

[RusskiSoldat]

Good thing too, really. It's just a shame that Russia's overrun with Protestants, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses trying to get converts in the wake of communism.

Besides, I think he lives in America.

I do live in America, Brooklyn in fact.
I'll find an Orthodox church around here once I get converted.
As for the protestants, don't worry, they're a tiny fringe group.
Besides, they do some good like running rehab clinics and the like.

could someone bullet point your reasons why you wud want to be orthdox christian over catholic etc. i'd find it interesting.

Simply because I believe that the Catholic church has violated the traditions of the early Christians.
At the core of this violation lies the Papacy itself: whereas in Orthodoxy (as far as I know) all priests, bishops and patriarchs are of equal theological standing (meaning that the patriarch can't simply hand down edicts on faith, he can only clear up existing problems), with the Patriarch of Constantinople being the spokesman for the church.
While corruption has existed in both churches (particularly in dark times, like the sack of Rome and following the fall of Constantinople), corruption for the catholics is much more dangerous as a single person is in charge of all church doctrine.
I also resent that the catholics would reform their faith solely to give in to societal pressure and remain popular and powerful.
A religion which claims to be the only path cannot possibly be reformed and maintain its integrity.

Basically he's doing it because he's Russian.

Not at all.
I live in a mostly Jewish and atheist neighborhood in America and there is not a single Orthodox church close to here as far as I know.
Back when I was an atheist and wanted to convert to a faith purely for social acceptance, I wanted to be a baptist, as they have a church only two blocks away from where I live.
If I wanted a chance at social advancement, I could've taken on Judaism as the Jews have a tight knit community that helps its members.
Instead I chose the faith of a tiny minority of Americans as I feel that it is the one preserved the Christian traditions of long ago.

Reaper: RusskiSoldat is Russian, but he's also Armenian.

Half Russian, quarter Armenian (hence me having an Armenian cross).

And no, I'm not doing this out of nationalism or some sort of desire to fit in (the latter doesn't even make sense as the Orthodox community in America is very small and not based where I live).

[Zenith Darksea]

Is he? I became Greek Orthodox, and I'm Scottish. We have to shelve these incorrect notions that Orthodoxy is tied to nationality.

[Reaper]

Well, his nickname does say russkisoldat, which means Russian soldier.

We have to shelve these incorrect notions that Orthodoxy is tied to nationality.

Aside from Greek and Russian Orthodox Christians, there are Arabs as well.

[morteduzionism]

1. While I made up my mind to convert, I will be doing so in Russia in August most likely. Would it be some sort of sacrilege to wear a cross before then?
2. According to some online sources the Orthodox church does not place too much importance in regular attendance. Protestants and catholics in America go to church every Sunday, how regularly do Orthodox attend in comparison?
3. When I do get baptized, as far as I understand, I have to ask for forgiveness for all my sins. Do I have to list everything or do I say something a lot more general?

if you have these types of questions, why are you converting? it seems like you're still learning about the religion you are about to join...you don't think it's best to find out the answers to ALL your questions first?

not trying to change your mind/heart in any way...i'm just asking.