Trees in Two Religions

[Irishman]

I was thinking today, look at the symbol of the tree in "genesis stories" in two religions, Buddhism and Christianity.

In Genesis, Adam and Eve eat from the tree of life (or of Good and Evil depending on your interperetation, and are granted knowledge from it. This knowledge though sends them and the rest of the Human race into punishment and suffering, in other words, in the christian story, man recieved suffering by attaining knowledge.

In the story of Buddha's enlightenment, he to travels to the Bodhi tree to meditate. He too recieves knowledge, but this is the knowledge of the world and true existence, this can be seen as an equivalent parable to the fruit of knowledge story. The difference comes in the reward, the knowledge Buddha attains grants him peace of mind and Nirvana, in other words the knowledge frees him from suffering.

I find this distinction captivating. What do you think this says about the two religions, when one shows knowledge bringing suffering, and the other shows it aleviating it?

In my opinion, I think that Christians have always seen knowledge as a danger to faith, and as such, this is a tale of how belief is more important than knowledge. This is interesting when you watch the percentages of religious people (believers in a personal God) drop as levels of intelligence and schooling (knowledge) raise.

I think that the parable in Buddhism shows that knowledge is fundamental to the Buddist culture. In Buddhism, you wish to see the world as it is, with no illusions, and in the philosophies' opinion, there is no better way than through rational thinking. Buddhism promotes holding no beliefs on faith, as this leads to illusion.

Is this the reason for the discrepency? Is it faith vs. reason, or something else? What do you think?



Note: this is meant to be a respectful comparison, no bashing of religion here (I am an atheist/Buddhist myself and have seen far to many threads become flame wars). I would also like to hear if there are other tree symbols representing knowledge in other religions.

[Rhinosaur]

Well, trees are important in lots of religions, there's the Yggdrasil for example. Norse mythology ftw!

As to the knowledge found in or beneath the trees you mention, I think the difference is in the type of knowledge learned, and the way it was gotten. Adam and Eve gained carnal knowledge, and were seduced into getting it, while Buddha sought out his knowledge in an existential crisis, and gained knowledge of his place in the world. TBH, my knowledge of Buddhism is rather limited, and I find this comparison interesting, I hope it leads to more interesting posts.

Btw, I just thought I'd throw out the old saying "Ignorance is bliss". Confirm or deny as you will, and please give a reason. I hope to see people shoot holes in it or uphold it with vigor, but I withhold my opinion for now.

[Ummon]

You could have picked a shorter subject.

In any case, it's not like the meaning of trees as symbols in Christianism can be confined to the example in question.

The existence of a slow-paced, growing, vegetable Self is symbolized by the Vineyard of the Lord. To which the believer must tend.

The part about belief vs. evidence, besides, is wrong as well. Not even the incredulous Thomas is guilty because he wants evidence. Thomas, not recognizing his master, does exactly what the Buddhist who speaks of enlightenment does. To put a finger in the wound of Jesus is infact a very peculiar way of ascertaining the identity of Jesus, although transfigured by resurrection. Compare with "I thought the barbarian had a red beard..." in the Mu-mon-kan.

Notice also, as a sidenote, that the apocryphon Gospel of Thomas, is filled with statements which, as a matter of fact, will sound familiar to any buddhist.

BLATZ
(1) And he said: He who shall find the interpretation of these words shall not taste of death.
LAYTON
(1) And he said, "Whoever finds the meaning of these sayings will not taste death."
DORESSE
[1.] And he said: "Whoever penetrates the meaning of these words will not taste death!"
DORESSE - Oxyrhynchus
And he said: ["Whoever penetrates the mea]ning of these words will not taste [death!"]
ATTRIDGE - Oxyrhynchus
(1) And he said, "[Whoever finds the interpretation] of these sayings will not experience [death]."

BLATZ
(2) Jesus said: He who seeks, let him not cease seeking until he finds; and when he finds he will be troubled, and when he is troubled he will be amazed, and he will reign over the All.
LAYTON
(2) Jesus said, "Let one who seeks not stop seeking until that person finds; and upon finding, the person will be disturbed; and being disturbed, will be astounded; and will reign over the entirety."
DORESSE
1 [2]. Jesus says: "Let him who seeks cease not to seek until he finds: when he finds he will be astonished; and when he is astonished he will wonder, and will reign over the universe!"
DORESSE - Oxyrhynchus
[Jesus says:] "Let him who see[ks] cease not [to seek until he] finds: when he finds, [he will wonder; and when he wond]ers, he will reign, and [reigning, he will have r]est!"
ATTRIDGE - Oxyrhynchus
(2) [Jesus said], "Let him who seeks continue [seeking until] he finds. When he finds, [he will be amazed. And] when he becomes [amazed], he will rule. And [once he has ruled], he will [attain rest]."

BLATZ
(17) Jesus said: I will give you what no eye has seen and what no ear has heard and what no hand has touched and what has not entered into the heart of man.
LAYTON
(17) Jesus said, "I shall give you (plur.) what eyes have not seen, what ears have not heard, what hands have not touched, what has not come upon the human heart."
DORESSE
18 [17]. Jesus says: "I will give you what eye has never seen, and what ear has never heard, and what hand has never touched, and what has never entered into the heart of man."


BLATZ
(37) His disciples said: On what day will you be revealed to us, and on what day shall we see you? Jesus said: When you unclothe yourselves and are not ashamed, and take your garments and lay them beneath your feet like the little children (and) trample on them, then [you will see] the Son of the Living One, and you will not be afraid.
LAYTON
(37) His disciples said, "When will you be shown forth to us and when shall we behold you?" Jesus said, "When you strip naked without being ashamed, and take your garments and put them under your feet like little children and tread upon them, then [you] will see the child of the living. And you will not be afraid."
DORESSE
42 [37]. His disciples say to him: "On what day wilt thou appear to us, and what day shall we see thee?" Jesus says: "When you strip yourselves without being ashamed, when you take off your clothes and lay them at your feet like little children and trample on them! Then [you will become] children of Him who is living, and you will have no more fear."


BLATZ
(106) Jesus said: When you make the two one, you will become sons of man, and when you say: Mountain, move away, it will move away.
LAYTON
(106) Jesus said, "when you (plur.) make the two into one you will become sons of man, and when you say, 'O mountain, go elsewhere!' it will go elsewhere."
DORESSE
110 [106]. Jesus says: "When you make the two one, you will become sons of Man and if you say: 'Mountain, move!', it will move."

Finally, Original Sin was unavoidably part of the project of God, if we are to assume God is omnipotent and omniscient. How though, is an unknown factor. And it has been defined the "blessed sin" as well.

[Irishman]

The part about belief vs. evidence, besides, is wrong as well. Not even the incredulous Thomas is guilty because he wants evidence.

Yes but it is said that he who believes without seeing is greater than he who believes.

You could have picked a shorter subject.

I meant for this to remain only on the subject of trees in regard to knowledge, but other trees are ok.

The subject of the topic is mainly on the use of trees in regard to knowledge and the way the knowledge is treated.

[Ummon]

Yes but it is said that he who believes without seeing is greater than he who believes.

What is this belief, is the problem. Is it lack of evidence, or another kind of evidence which one must follow? As there are many kinds.

In meditation, you do not see apples and pears. At least not often.

I meant for this to remain only on the subject of trees in regard to knowledge, but other trees are ok.

The subject of the topic is mainly on the use of trees in regard to knowledge and the way the knowledge is treated.

The knowledge gained from the fruit is "knowledge of good and evil". They eat of the tree, Buddha meditates under the tree. As he is assaulted by Mara, he is unflinching, and thus the knowledge he gains is the opposite of the knowledge of good and evil. Whereas the devil induces the serpent to mislead Eve to seduce Adam in thinking that the knowledge of good and evil, will make humans like God. Which in a sense is true: you can't go back if you never went forward. But there is absolutely no back and forward.