Syrian AI needs a handicapp

[Rusty Hammer]

It seems that Syria is the target of 90% of all crusades (and rightfully so), but I was just wondering if they could be scripted some extra cash when a crusade is called to make a bit more fair for the AI.

[tornnight]

The focus for the next release is allowing the AI to have enough economy to put up a decent defense. That may help a bit.

[Xeno_cws]

Was wondering if its possible to make a script fire off that each time a crusade is called for a city that city receives a random amount of Muslim units?

Cause right now, they are usually guarded by usually just a general unit plus some peasants and militia (no more then four units altogether).

Makes it feel kinda anti-climatic


Giving a the faction a large boost of money is a good idea if you can't do the above. Lets just hope they don't blow all of it on buildings eh?

[Ivniciix]

Was wondering if its possible to make a script fire off that each time a crusade is called for a city that city receives a random amount of Muslim units? Cause right now, they are usually guarded by usually just a general unit plus some peasants and militia (no more then four units altogether). Makes it feel kinda anti-climatic

Giving a the faction a large boost of money is a good idea if you can't do the above. Lets just hope they don't blow all of it on buildings eh?

At the risk of over-generalizing, the early crusades were launched against an unprepared foe. They had not had a need to heavily garrison the major cities and were spending their time subduing rebels and brigands. The big Crusade battles came when the Moslem forces counter-attacked.

In this respect, the AI, as it now exists, isn't that out of whack - at least for AI vs AI crusades. The AI Christians rarely hang on to a Crusade target city for long...at least in the first two hundred years or so.

The problem, as I see it, is that a player has potentially non-historical goals and priorities. Aside from simply wanting an epic battle since you went to the trouble and expense of creating a Crusade army and getting it to the Holy Land, what a player does once he gets there can really undercut the Syrian faction permanently.

Most of the Northern Holy Land was taken over in the early crusades by soldier of fortune crusaders only loosely affiliated with a Christian, European faction...at least once they were there and had taken a city. In the game, however, AI crusader armies never attempt to take an alternate city but rather just go home if unsuccesful.

Players also can't be expected to act historically or all even in the same way either. I usually give Jerusalem to the Pope if I take it early in a Crusade. It's too far away and expensive to try and hold early in the game...it's a distraction from building up my home provinces. Sometimes I'll give it to an "ally" - usually one I've made a treaty of convenience with, a neighbor who I intend to attack later. This makes that town a potential syphon of resources from that "ally" making him easier to attack later.

Especially in TLR, many players - including myself - use a crusade as an excuse to: 1) Get a huge army off the payroll and 2) Use it to raid and loot distant towns/factions who have no practical possibility of counter attacking me at home. In this instance, the goal is to take towns with buildings and sell them off for $$$, raise the taxes to very high then leave it with no garrison to rebel.

The mechanism already in the game that ought to counteract Christians in the Holy Land is the Jihad. This only really functions "properly" if you are playing as a Moslem Nation and use it to get help in driving back the Christians. Perhaps a mechanism that makes the AI Moslems persist in calling Jihads until the Christians are driven out is all that's needed.

That won't create the immediate "big battle" the OP wants when he goes crusading but it will make staying in the Holy Land harder for Christian players.

While it might be "fun" to have an immediate Jihad on Rome called by the AI whenever a Crusade to the Holy Land is called (thus creating the potential for many field battles as the armies meet each other) it's not particularly historical nor can the game be "trusted" to act in an allied manner - on either side - so the results are hard to predict.

[Xeno_cws]

True, but the muslims would have had more then a general and a unit of militia guarding their capital (the crusade target, Cairo).

Even when I take the capital the muslims never counter-act it. In fact the only time they have ever acted (early on) was when a jihad was called. Man that was an intense battle!


This goes the same with Muslim faction's capital in spain (forget their name). They had 4 medium stack armies spread out, but not one of them attacked my crusader army as I lay siege to their capital (which had only 5 units, including their leader). On that thought halberd militia are/were way out of balance in the last version.

Another time after my crusade on Cairo I asked the pope for a crusade against Jerusalem, when I got there they had only three units (no general) and a large stack (close to full) just a few steps from it. Naturally I sieged the city expecting to be attacked by the large stack and thus play defense. Instead it just walked right by and went north (maybe they had a grudge against Byz. I don't know.


Anyways what I'm getting at is if you could at least make it so the Muslim forces try to at least protect the crusade targets that would be great!

[Ivniciix]

Even when I take the capital the muslims never counter-act it. In fact the only time they have ever acted (early on) was when a jihad was called. Man that was an intense battle!

Anyways what I'm getting at is if you could at least make it so the Muslim forces try to at least protect the crusade targets that would be great!

Well, if a script could trigger a Jihad to retake any cities taken by Crusades, that would be great. Other than that, I suppose having a Crusader also trigger a "gift" of units to the defending city would be cool...except the AI would probably move it away before the Crusaders got there!

As far as Umbrisee's comments about weak AI Crusader armies, I think that's true of Vanilla and any other mod I've ever tried....at least early in the game.

[Umbrisse]

It seems that Syria is the target of 90% of all crusades (and rightfully so), but I was just wondering if they could be scripted some extra cash when a crusade is called to make a bit more fair for the AI.

I'm playing my 2.0 campaign as Egypt... the year is around 1130 and there have been two crusades, both of them against Cairo. I was super excited because I have never played an Islamic faction before. But, when the hordes of Christian armies came, they had usually 75% of their armies composed of pilgrims. Needless to say, I beat off every army with very little challenge (pilgrims have 0 defense). I love TLR, but I'm starting to think the reworked economy makes the AI rarely make full, challenging armies of good units. I almost never see a full stack, and battles are rarely challenging. The improved AI from the M2TW 1.2 patch is cool, though, I've seen some pretty awesome manuevers from the AI with their cavalry and use of a rear guard, among other things. (I'm playing vh/vh, btw)

[Phil Stanbridge]

I'm playing my 2.0 campaign as Egypt... the year is around 1130 and there have been two crusades, both of them against Cairo. I was super excited because I have never played an Islamic faction before. But, when the hordes of Christian armies came, they had usually 75% of their armies composed of pilgrims. Needless to say, I beat off every army with very little challenge (pilgrims have 0 defense). I love TLR, but I'm starting to think the reworked economy makes the AI rarely make full, challenging armies of good units. I almost never see a full stack, and battles are rarely challenging. The improved AI from the M2TW 1.2 patch is cool, though, I've seen some pretty awesome manuevers from the AI with their cavalry and use of a rear guard, among other things. (I'm playing vh/vh, btw)

There's no denying the economy does effect the AI's ability to recruit armies early in the game, but by 1250+ I was seeing huge stacks of knights and cavalry in the crusading armies. This was in 1.9.9 by the way. It just starts out incredibly slowly, and it is quite frustrating, but maybe not in an unrealistic way.

I like it, it's like the calm before the storm.

[Umbrisse]

meh, it's my first time playing as a caliphate, moderately disappointing, although slaughtering 1000 pilgrims in less than 60 seconds is always fun =D

and yeah that's true, it is relatively early in the game, and I have no idea what is going on in Europe at the moment

[Hanny]

Maybe whats called for is a script that puts garrisons of units into targets of AI controlled settlements, of units that have no upkeep but are otherwise the same as other units, so a castle or town gets a different set of garrison unit which are the same as the types it can produce, only they are free mant units.

Of course a garrison script is really whats called for in the first place!, but one for crusades/Jihads with free upkeep units is at least a start.

[tornnight]

Well worry not, the next version will be quite a change in the economy. The AI will finally have the resources it needs to give you a good challenge.

The campaign difficulty will control just how difficult the economy is for the player.

[Phil Stanbridge]

Sounds good but I hope it isn't too drastic - I couldnt stand the AI in Rome Total Realism when army after army would come after you, it just wasn't fun. (Macedonian in particular if anyone remembers that).

My personal opinion is that the economy is just about right as it stands, but the AI does need a slight boost.

[Rusty Hammer]

agreed, the AI could use a quicker build up