The ethics of being rich or poor

**Count of Montesano** · June 01, 2007, 04:14 PM

So, I wanted to carry over a debate made in the political mudpit about the ethics of being poor or rich.

In modern America, many people now equate wealth with strong ethical character. The wealthy are seen as being the hardest working, most disciplined, living up to their potential, and the most altruistic of citizens because they pay the highest tax rates. The poor are seen as lacking a work ethic, undisciplined, wasteful, and as a major drain on society. Many charismatic churches actually teach that wealth is an indicator of how virtuous a person you are, because God of course will reward you with a BMW for going to church and denouncing gay marriage.

Yet this hasn't been the case going back in either American or Christian tradition. Of course the early Christians believed that wealth was actually a major stumbling block when it came to leading a virtuous life and that being poor was actually living ethically. Furthermore, plenty of American leaders and scholars from Ben Franklin to Ralph Waldo Emerson to Teddy Roosevelt praised living a simple life and rejecting conspicuous consumption and pure avarice.

I do agree that poor ethical choices (such as becoming a drug dealer or refusing to get a job) can lead to poverty, and good ethical choices (such as working hard and showing personal discipline) often lead to wealth.
But if you look more closely at the debate, you realize that many of America's wealthy have either earned their money rather inethically or have inherited a fortune and used it to fuel a lifestyle of jetsetting hedonism. Meanwhile, many poor were born in rough circumstances and demonstrate strong ethical character. After all, the poor often give more of their incomes to the even more needy than do many of the rich. And living an honest life is probably much more difficult when you're poor than when you're wealthy.

**~~enoch~~** · June 01, 2007, 04:19 PM

both have almost entirely individual ethics and morals
for whether you see circles or lines, rich and poor are the beginning/end
and both "cultures' promote individual e/m as the dominant schema
for reasons far more similar than most would suspect

**Cluny the Scourge** · June 02, 2007, 05:40 AM

The suggestion that the rich are considered more virtuous than the poor is news to me. I had always thought that the wealthy were regarded with suspicion as almost certainly being corrupt. Perhaps it's just that we see the matter differently in the UK than in the US.

**Gary88** · June 02, 2007, 05:49 AM

yeah in the UK there are the really poor scummy people who live on benefits because they're lazy who we all hate (not the people who actually deserve benefits just the ones who could work but are morons) but working class people are seen as just that, hard working. i dont think we equate money and virtue though.

**Tom Paine** · June 02, 2007, 05:51 AM

We don't. We know they aren't equated through things like football (yeah, Becks clearly deserves.... a how many figure paycheck? **** me.); and through the fact of inherited wealth. Its one of the benefits of having had nobility; we know wealth does not equal ability.

**Chaigidel** · June 02, 2007, 08:36 AM

actually a new world wide aristocracy is fully apparent none of which have ever done enough work to GET MORE MONEY THAN THEY CAN SPEND IN 4 FRICKEN FAMILY GENERATIONS--- ford recently hired a new ceo for 28 million dollas he only worked for 2 months !--- at the same time they payed this chump 28 million for 2 months of work---they layed off over 100000 americans, in median paying jobs and in some cases these employees even lost retirement and health care benefits--

WHAT THE ****--- uprising is all I gotta say, one day the rich will rub it in the peoples faces toooo goddamn much and they poor will realize hey

there are like 6 billion of us you *******s-- and only like 2 or 3 million of you douchebags

**Fredderix** · June 02, 2007, 08:48 AM

well said

chaigidel

i am proud to say i come from a relatary poor background

divorced parants

2 bros

3 bedroom tarece

but i dont care coz i think the less you have the more you want and the harder your willing to work. and im my town there is a large line between whats seen as rich and poor .there counsel essats, and 9 bedroom houses but when i saw these 3 rich kids picking on one kid coz his shoes were cheap me and some pals had a little disscution with them

**Chaigidel** · June 02, 2007, 09:03 AM

dont get me wrong some people like bill gates have done what the rich everywhere should do --- bill gates has cut his own family off from the majority of his fortune-- his kids will have an inheritance of 50 million dollars which is more than enough to live an exceptionally comfortable life in a physical sense, and more than enough to take care of future generations if people act responsibly --- now the 60 or 70 billion he has that wont go to his kids is going for cancer research, aids research, power technology research, enviromental research, and all kinds of scholarships and school grants.

basically bill is doing by choice what every rich person in the world should do right now and all at once, lets get some social medicine up in this *****, lets educate the masses instead of wiping gold-plated asses?

so dont think bill gates is a bad guy, he may have been shady gettin his money but he has done the fully proper thing and set up many things that will help everyone for many generations not just his genetic line.---if more people acted in this manner I would not have such a low opinion of our species as a whole

**Fredderix** · June 02, 2007, 09:31 AM

yeah i av no prob with entrupaneuas ---(i gave up tryin to spell it right) but i dont like it when som1 gets a car load of car from daddy and though no skill of there own manages to make more, heck give me 200k and i'll av 300k in a mounth

**~~removeduser_426582376423734~~** · June 02, 2007, 09:41 AM

You're pissed off if you're poor, but the second you get money, its like crack. So, stop being armchair revolutionaries and face facts. You've got enough for a nice PC, that's more than a lot of people. You're not poor, you don't want to be poor, you just want the coolness that poor people get.

**Fredderix** · June 02, 2007, 09:47 AM

shut up!

oh yeah this pc is my dad's not mine my mum dosn't have one

**~~removeduser_426582376423734~~** · June 02, 2007, 09:50 AM

Of course, I'm not on my own PC, its my mum's. But I don't kid myself.

**Chaigidel** · June 02, 2007, 10:17 AM

seriously man just because I spent my money on a computer doesnt mean im fricken rich-- Im by no means a farmer in africa, or china... but I do work for my money, I am glad to live in a place where the standard of living even for the poorest is higher than alot of places(so we can own computers :O)

I am just saying the rich need to spend money more in line with helping all of society since they always built fortune UPON THE WORK OF OTHERS--- there is no ceo who doesnt make his millions on the backs of 200000 factory workers or some such -- in alot of cases in places like the mariannas islands where people can be payed cents a day --

I dont think its out of line to say its ridiculous for a man who works two months to be layed off and get 28 million dollars while 100000 men and women lose the only job they have , and the insurance and retirement benefits that came with that job--- I dont think its out of line for us to be upset about those kinds of things-- we may largely be middle class in a worldly sense but we still dont live in excess so to speak, we get by.

**Count of Montesano** · June 02, 2007, 01:12 PM

@Chaigidel
You know Bill Gates is an excellent example of the ethics of being rich. He's doing untold good with his riches but at the same time he earned his fortune through some pretty unethical ways. One must therefore ask if you can do all kinds of bad things to earn your fortune but redeem yourself with philanthropy - and I would argue that the robber barons like Carnegie and Vanderbilt of the 19th Century would be even better examples of men who did far worse things than Gates but eventually became philanthropists in their old age.

@ Cluny and Ozymandias - I didn't want to give a false impression that there isn't any jealousy or disdain in America of the rich. But there is certainly an idea that anyone and everyone can become rich or at least upper middle class with enough hard work, that the poor are bad people who deserve their station in life. Also, the phenomenon of charismatic churches actually teaching a doctrine linking wealth with Christian virtue is very real.

**Rhinosaur** · June 02, 2007, 01:41 PM

Matthew 19:23And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

I bet those preachers have to talk all kinds of BS to make Jesus' teachings endorse the unbridled pursuit of wealth.

**Thanatos** · June 02, 2007, 04:45 PM

There is nothing wrong with being rich. It is only when you fail to do something worthwhile with that money, and fail to recognize where the blessing of an abundance of money came from in the first place.

**MasterAdnin** · June 02, 2007, 04:54 PM

In an Islamic point of view, one should not have more than they need, for then they become too materialistic and focus more on this world than the after life and God. Not to say that one should not try to gain wealth, meaning that one should strive to be the best they can be, but they should only keep enough to support themselves and their families and give the rest to charity.

Imam Ali (pbuh) once said "He who adopts greed as a habit devalues himself; he who discloses his hardships agrees to humiliation; and he who allows his tongue to overpower his soul debases the soul."

By doing this you are helping those who are less fortunate and you are living a humble life away from materialism. I see this as virtuous and the right thing to do, and this is what I will try to do when I am older, Inshallah.

As Imam Ali (pbuh) said "Charity is an effective cure, and the actions of people in their present life will be before their eyes in the next life."

Salaam brothers,
Adnan

**molonthegreat** · June 02, 2007, 05:04 PM

I have nothing against rich people who have deserved their money but when i see the tabloids about what Paris Hilton is doing with her money i get disgusted.

**Thanatos** · June 02, 2007, 05:13 PM

I appreciate people who earn their wealth, and I do not despise those who are born into it.

I just dislike those who are born into wealth, and are spoiled rotten because they do not understand economics, have no financial literacy, and take everything for granted.