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Thread: New Regent and Faction Titles

  1. #21
    Pnutmaster's Avatar Dominus Qualitatium
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    I support this all the way. In fact, if we could gather up the titles that Regents would assume in each faction, I'd be in the CNP's debts (would make for an excellent realistic addition to BBB)
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  2. #22
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Thanks Otark, now just the Italians left.

    Will add that to the opening post Pnutmaster. See what we get. One problem is that some factions wouldn't really have regents, if the direct heir was too young, a mature relation would be made leader, the Scots come to mind.

  3. #23
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Sicilian Vespers PMed me the titles for the three Italian factions, so the CNP part of it has been finished in record time.

    Will change the title a bit to encourage people to come and give the names of regents.

  4. #24
    Kingmaker's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    The title for regent for the English would be either Protector or Lord Protector, personally I'd go with the former.
    And gentlemen in England, now a-bed
    Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
    And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
    That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.


    Shakespeare - Henry V at Agincourt

  5. #25

    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    Excellent work !

    repman

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  6. #26

    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by otark View Post
    ... and Byzantium, before...
    eastern roman/byzantine titles append after one of the names, like their latin counterparts. only informal titles go before. compare:

    a "kyr(ios) alexios" = a "lord/sir alexius", but
    "alexios a' komnenos basileus" = "emperor alexius comenus i"

    "papa benedictus"
    "benedictus pontifex maximus"

    compare also:

    "queen elizabeth" vs. "elizabeth regina"

    generally, you have first name, number, family name and/or epithet followed by dignity/title; or last name/epithet, dignity, first name (depending on emphasis or case)

    "hyios batatzou despotou theodorou" = "son of despot theodorus batatzes"


    lately in modern greek some follow the "king/queen/prince x" formula

    steph

    p.s. for most of the time period considered, "despotes" is the title of the next-in-line.
    Last edited by iostephanos; January 10, 2008 at 07:38 PM.

  7. #27
    Johan217's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    France

    King - Roi
    Prince - Dauphin
    Regent - Régent

    HRE

    King - Kaiser
    Prince - Prinz
    Regent - Reichsvikar
    Actually, the title Dauphin was only used from 1349 onwards. But since there seems to be no equivalent before that period (unless you are happy with "Prince héritier"), Dauphin sounds nicer

    French for regent is Régent. I've also heard of the title "Lieutenant du royaume", but it's possible that this was only used for (the future) Charles V.

    The HRE used the title Reichsvikar for regent.
    Rock 'n' roll is the only religion that will never let you down

  8. #28

    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    Byzantium

    King - Basileus
    Prince - Sebastokrator or Despotes
    Regent - Basileopator *


    * Rhomanos A' Lakapenos used this term while regent for Konstantinos Z'

    steph

  9. #29
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    Not Kaisar?

    There didn't seem to be any standard name for heir for the Byzantines.

  10. #30
    Johan217's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    Personally, I always found Kaisar a bit odd...
    [edit]Sorry, I thought you meant Kaisar in the sense of "emperor". Disregard

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basileus
    Under Roman rule, the term basileus, as a generic designation for a sovereign monarch, came to be used (at first informally) to designate the Roman Emperor. The usage had become standard by the reign of Constantine the Great. [...]
    This use of the word is the result of a gradual development — when the Romans had originally conquered the Mediterranean, the imperial title Caesar Augustus was initially translated as Kaisar Sebastos or Kaisar Augoustos. Imperator, another standard imperial title (and the origin of our "emperor"), was translated as Autokratōr. Interestingly, "BASILEUS" was initially stamped on Byzantine coins (in lieu of the standard Latin abbreviations "C.IMP." for "Caesar Imperator") in Latin script. Then, Latin characters began to be gradually replaced by Greek ones and only somewhat later was the Byzantine Greek script (i.e. "BACIΛEVS" or "BACIΛEYS") used throughout.
    Last edited by Johan217; January 16, 2008 at 07:21 AM.
    Rock 'n' roll is the only religion that will never let you down

  11. #31

    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by finneys13 View Post
    Not Kaisar?

    There didn't seem to be any standard name for heir for the Byzantines.
    it's been said that primogeniture wasn't too well established in the roman world, i couldn't really tell you. it seems at times an augustus might name a caesar, only to be followed by a general usurping power.

    anyway, when alexius created sebastokrator, kaisar dropped down a notch. when manuel created despotes, both sebastokrator and kaisar dropped. so my approach was to consider the title held immediately before becoming emperor, which in the case of family was sebastokrator, then despotes.

    for example, alexius' son was a sebastokrator; in the later years, to be named despot of morea meant that one was expected to be the next emperor.

    steph

  12. #32
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    Makes sense.

  13. #33

    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    -
    Last edited by Euphoria.Aus; June 05, 2010 at 12:22 AM.

  14. #34
    Gnostiko's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    Ah, I love expanded.txt
    Just a suggestion for those doing their own tweaking - the Byzantine heir should be labelled 'Symbasileus' which is 'Co-Emperor'. Byzantine emperors, whenever the opportunity presented itself, tended to crown their heirs as Co-Emperors to secure their succession. However, before heirs were available the Co-Emperor could be anyone...which suits TW's odd heir nominations.

    By the time frame of the early campaign (to say nothing of Late) Kaisar had already been relegated to a relatively minor title and no longer denoted the heir-apparent.
    Last edited by Gnostiko; December 20, 2008 at 02:19 PM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    Yeah, it will be a great addition if implemented in the game!

  16. #36

    Default Re: New Regent and Faction Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Socal_infidel View Post
    Hello all -

    I've been thinking that another idea this Project could look into is appropriate faction leader and faction heir titles. I don't know about any of you, but it kind of kills the atmosphere to see your Spanish King Alfonso referred to as King Alfonso as opposed to Rey Alfonso. Or having an Islamic faction heir referred to as "Crown Prince."

    If we could come up with titles for each faction leader and heir in their native language, I think that could add even more depth to this Project. Does anyone else think this is a good idea?

    The titles can be edited in the expanded.txt file. For example, we'd just change this:



    to:



    Cheers!

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    In some languages, the grammar system means the leader is not written as King John, but John King.

    I know that Hungarian does that, and I now have Lázsló Király as leader, not Király Lázsló.

    Could I have a list of the languages that are effected by that grammar rule? I think Turkish and Arabic are? And the Mongols and Timurids?

    Will put a * beside titles effected.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Pnutmaster has asked for the native names for the word 'Regent', for the BBB mod, I can't put it into CNP, so it's just a favour

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Spain

    King - Rey
    Prince - Principe
    Regent - Regente

    Scotland

    King - Rígh
    Prince - Tŕnaiste
    Regent - Tňiseach

    Doesn't translate as regent, it means Chief/Leader, but it was used during a regency

    Moors

    King - Sultan
    Prince - Amir
    Regent -

    Egypt

    King - Khalīfah
    Prince - Amir
    Regent -

    Byzantium

    King - Basileus
    Prince - Kaisar
    Regent - Antibasileus

    England

    King - King
    Prince - Prince
    Regent - Protector

    Denmark

    King - Kong
    Prince - Prins
    Regent -

    France

    King - Roi
    Prince - Dauphin
    Regent - Régent

    HRE

    King - Kaiser
    Prince - Prinz
    Regent - Regent

    Hungary

    King - Király*
    Prince - Herceg*
    Regent -

    Milan

    King - Signore
    Prince - Nobile
    Regent - Reggente

    Poland

    King - Krol
    Prince - krolewicz
    Regent -

    Portugal

    King - Rei
    Prince - Príncipe
    Regent - Regente

    Russia

    King - Velikii Knyaz
    Prince - Knyazhich
    Regent -

    Sicily

    King - Re
    Prince - Principe
    Regent - Riggenti

    Turks

    King - Sultan*
    Prince - Şehzade*
    Regent -

    Venice

    King - Doge
    Prince - Consiglieri
    Regent -

    Mongols

    King - Khan*
    Prince - Khung-taiji*
    Regent -

    Timurids

    King - Gurkhan*
    Prince - Mirza*
    Regent -

    Temur never called himself a Khan

    Aztecs

    King - Hueyi Tlatoani
    Prince - Pipilti
    Regent -

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