New Regent and Faction Titles

**Pnutmaster** · June 01, 2007, 02:22 PM

I support this all the way. In fact, if we could gather up the titles that Regents would assume in each faction, I'd be in the CNP's debts (would make for an excellent realistic addition to BBB)

**finneys13** · June 01, 2007, 02:35 PM

Thanks Otark, now just the Italians left.

Will add that to the opening post Pnutmaster. See what we get. One problem is that some factions wouldn't really have regents, if the direct heir was too young, a mature relation would be made leader, the Scots come to mind.

**finneys13** · June 01, 2007, 03:02 PM

Sicilian Vespers PMed me the titles for the three Italian factions, so the CNP part of it has been finished in record time.

Will change the title a bit to encourage people to come and give the names of regents.

**Kingmaker** · June 02, 2007, 03:53 AM

The title for regent for the English would be either Protector or Lord Protector, personally I'd go with the former.

**repman** · June 02, 2007, 05:09 AM

Excellent work !

repman

**iostephanos** · January 08, 2008, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by otark

... and Byzantium, before...

eastern roman/byzantine titles append after one of the names, like their latin counterparts. only informal titles go before. compare:

a "kyr(ios) alexios" = a "lord/sir alexius", but
"alexios a' komnenos basileus" = "emperor alexius comenus i"

"papa benedictus"
"benedictus pontifex maximus"

compare also:

"queen elizabeth" vs. "elizabeth regina"

generally, you have first name, number, family name and/or epithet followed by dignity/title; or last name/epithet, dignity, first name (depending on emphasis or case)

"hyios batatzou despotou theodorou" = "son of despot theodorus batatzes"

lately in modern greek some follow the "king/queen/prince x" formula

steph

p.s. for most of the time period considered, "despotes" is the title of the next-in-line.

**Johan217** · January 09, 2008, 01:52 AM

France

King - Roi
Prince - Dauphin
Regent - Régent

HRE

King - Kaiser
Prince - Prinz
Regent - Reichsvikar

Actually, the title Dauphin was only used from 1349 onwards. But since there seems to be no equivalent before that period (unless you are happy with "Prince héritier"), Dauphin sounds nicer

French for regent is Régent. I've also heard of the title "Lieutenant du royaume", but it's possible that this was only used for (the future) Charles V.

The HRE used the title Reichsvikar for regent.

**iostephanos** · January 10, 2008, 06:36 PM

Byzantium

King - Basileus
Prince - Sebastokrator or Despotes
Regent - Basileopator *

* Rhomanos A' Lakapenos used this term while regent for Konstantinos Z'

steph

**finneys13** · January 16, 2008, 05:45 AM

Not Kaisar?

There didn't seem to be any standard name for heir for the Byzantines.

**Johan217** · January 16, 2008, 06:16 AM

Personally, I always found Kaisar a bit odd...
[edit]Sorry, I thought you meant Kaisar in the sense of "emperor". Disregard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basileus

Under Roman rule, the term basileus, as a generic designation for a sovereign monarch, came to be used (at first informally) to designate the Roman Emperor. The usage had become standard by the reign of Constantine the Great. [...]
This use of the word is the result of a gradual development — when the Romans had originally conquered the Mediterranean, the imperial title Caesar Augustus was initially translated as Kaisar Sebastos or Kaisar Augoustos. Imperator, another standard imperial title (and the origin of our "emperor"), was translated as Autokratōr. Interestingly, "BASILEUS" was initially stamped on Byzantine coins (in lieu of the standard Latin abbreviations "C.IMP." for "Caesar Imperator") in Latin script. Then, Latin characters began to be gradually replaced by Greek ones and only somewhat later was the Byzantine Greek script (i.e. "BACIΛEVS" or "BACIΛEYS") used throughout.

**iostephanos** · January 16, 2008, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by finneys13

Not Kaisar?

There didn't seem to be any standard name for heir for the Byzantines.

it's been said that primogeniture wasn't too well established in the roman world, i couldn't really tell you. it seems at times an augustus might name a caesar, only to be followed by a general usurping power.

anyway, when alexius created sebastokrator, kaisar dropped down a notch. when manuel created despotes, both sebastokrator and kaisar dropped. so my approach was to consider the title held immediately before becoming emperor, which in the case of family was sebastokrator, then despotes.

for example, alexius' son was a sebastokrator; in the later years, to be named despot of morea meant that one was expected to be the next emperor.

steph

**finneys13** · January 17, 2008, 08:19 AM

Makes sense.

**Euphoria.Aus** · March 08, 2008, 11:42 PM

-

**Gnostiko** · December 03, 2008, 07:19 AM

Ah, I love expanded.txt

Just a suggestion for those doing their own tweaking - the Byzantine heir should be labelled 'Symbasileus' which is 'Co-Emperor'. Byzantine emperors, whenever the opportunity presented itself, tended to crown their heirs as Co-Emperors to secure their succession. However, before heirs were available the Co-Emperor could be anyone...which suits TW's odd heir nominations.

By the time frame of the early campaign (to say nothing of Late) Kaisar had already been relegated to a relatively minor title and no longer denoted the heir-apparent.

**Surfacerunner** · May 04, 2012, 12:12 AM

Yeah, it will be a great addition if implemented in the game!

**Sinbad** · May 07, 2012, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by Socal_infidel

Hello all -

I've been thinking that another idea this Project could look into is appropriate faction leader and faction heir titles. I don't know about any of you, but it kind of kills the atmosphere to see your Spanish King Alfonso referred to as King Alfonso as opposed to Rey Alfonso. Or having an Islamic faction heir referred to as "Crown Prince."

If we could come up with titles for each faction leader and heir in their native language, I think that could add even more depth to this Project. Does anyone else think this is a good idea?

The titles can be edited in the expanded.txt file. For example, we'd just change this:

to:

Cheers!

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In some languages, the grammar system means the leader is not written as King John, but John King.

I know that Hungarian does that, and I now have Lázsló Király as leader, not Király Lázsló.

Could I have a list of the languages that are effected by that grammar rule? I think Turkish and Arabic are? And the Mongols and Timurids?

Will put a * beside titles effected.

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Pnutmaster has asked for the native names for the word 'Regent', for the BBB mod, I can't put it into CNP, so it's just a favour

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Spain

King - Rey
Prince - Principe
Regent - Regente

Scotland

King - Rígh
Prince - Tànaiste
Regent - Tòiseach

Doesn't translate as regent, it means Chief/Leader, but it was used during a regency

Moors

King - Sultan
Prince - Amir
Regent -

Egypt

King - Khalīfah
Prince - Amir
Regent -

Byzantium

King - Basileus
Prince - Kaisar
Regent - Antibasileus

England

King - King
Prince - Prince
Regent - Protector

Denmark

King - Kong
Prince - Prins
Regent -

France

King - Roi
Prince - Dauphin
Regent - Régent

HRE

King - Kaiser
Prince - Prinz
Regent - Regent

Hungary

King - Király*
Prince - Herceg*
Regent -

Milan

King - Signore
Prince - Nobile
Regent - Reggente

Poland

King - Krol
Prince - krolewicz
Regent -

Portugal

King - Rei
Prince - Príncipe
Regent - Regente

Russia

King - Velikii Knyaz
Prince - Knyazhich
Regent -

Sicily

King - Re
Prince - Principe
Regent - Riggenti

Turks

King - Sultan*
Prince - Şehzade*
Regent -

Venice

King - Doge
Prince - Consiglieri
Regent -

Mongols

King - Khan*
Prince - Khung-taiji*
Regent -

Timurids

King - Gurkhan*
Prince - Mirza*
Regent -

Temur never called himself a Khan

Aztecs

King - Hueyi Tlatoani
Prince - Pipilti
Regent -