Pope threatens Pro choice politicians

[Denny Crane!]

Politics.co.uk

Cardinal Keith O'Brien has urged Catholics to withhold their vote from pro-abortion politicians, calling the practice an "unspeakable crime".

In an emotive but carefully worded statement, he warned Catholic politicians of "the barrier such co-operation erects to receiving holy communion".

Most commentators are taking the phrase as a thinly veiled warning politicians who do not oppose the practise could not expect to remain full members of the Catholic church.

The sermon, delivered at St Mary's Cathedral in Edinburgh, marked the 40th anniversary of the Abortion Act.

"I urge politicians to have no truck with the evil trade of abortion. For those at Westminster this means finding means of overthrowing the legislation, which makes the killing possible," he said.

"For those at Holyrood that means refusing to allow our health services to participate in the wanton killing of the innocent."

Abortion is still legislated by Westminster, but the Scottish government is committed to reducing the number of unintended pregnancies through their Respect and Responsibility sexual health strategy.

Cardinal O' Brien continued: "Let us build up within our society a generation of medical professionals who are unwilling to co-operate in the slaughter.

"I call on our universities and medical schools to teach that all human life deserves protection.

"I call on all politicians to answer one simple question: will you protect the right to life of all persons in our society from conception until natural death?

"And I call on you to hold these elected representatives to account.

"For those unwilling to give this support we must be unwilling to give our vote," he said.

The sermon instantly provoked a storm of protest. Critics argued elected representatives should be free to exercise their judgement without threats from church leaders.

Jeremy Purvis, a Liberal Democrat member of the Scottish parliament, accused the cardinal of using "inflammatory" language.

Ann Furedi, the chief executive of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), a leading sexual health charity which provides over 55,000 women a year with abortion care, claimed there are many in the Catholic church who do not share the cardinal's views.

"At BPAS, we offer a non-judgemental service. We see many couples and women for contraception and abortion treatment who are active Catholics. It is quite clear that not everyone sharing the Catholic faith with the cardinal agrees with him on this issue," she said.

"The cardinal has every right to hold his views. He obviously doesn't have to have an abortion, or provide one."

She continued: "Abortion is a safe, legal and medically legitimate procedure, essential in safeguarding women's reproductive health. Women should be able to make their own choices about their bodies and their future."



Apparently doesn't believe in free will but must take an active part in enforcing catholic sentiments and biblical law. Personally I don't like it, even if it breaks catholic law who are they to impose their law on non catholics.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Didn't know a cardinal is the pope. Anyway, they always moan and groan, and no-one listens.

[antares24]

yeah the catholic church (as the other powerful religious organizations, cristian or not) is always trying to push their belief in everyone else throats, willing or not, best thing to do is to ignore them

[LoZz]

well i dont think you can be pro choice and a catholic, as the catholic church is against abortion so he has a point their.

[Shaun]

Link?

[Serious Spamurai]

The catholic church is responsible for more killing of the innocent (as has religion in general) than abortion clinics will ever do, not only because of what it did in the middle ages, but also because it condemns condoms, aiding the spread of HIV in Africa. Useless pointy-hated hypocrites.

[Denny Crane!]

well i dont think you can be pro choice and a catholic, as the catholic church is against abortion so he has a point their.

Not to try and enforce the views on non catholics though?

Link?

The website address is at the top if you are so interested go fetch.

The catholic church is responsible for more killing of the innocent (as has religion in general) than abortion clinics will ever do, not only because of what it did in the middle ages, but also because it condemns condoms, aiding the spread of HIV in Africa. Useless pointy-hated hypocrites.

Indeed it seems no matter the circumstance the catholic law must be obeyed.

[LoZz]

Not to try and enforce the views on non catholics though?

he isnt though - he is talking directly to catholic members of parliament not to support abortion as it is against the catholic faith.

that isnt forceing his views on anyone.

this website has it wrong, check on the story on the BBC, he talking to catholic MPs

[William the Bastard]

Thank God for the Reformation I say. Or should I say thank Old Henry VIII for wanting a son so bad he became a polygamist and burned the monasteries down. After taking their stolen gold from the people that is and spent it on a nice new fleet etc.

[LegionnaireX]

Thank God for the Reformation I say. Or should I say thank Old Henry VIII for wanting a son so bad he became a polygamist and burned the monasteries down. After taking their stolen gold from the people that is and spent it on a nice new fleet etc.

While Henry VIII started his own church he wasn't part of the reformation exactly. Martin Luther started that.

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

The catholic church is responsible for more killing of the innocent (as has religion in general) than abortion clinics will ever do, not only because of what it did in the middle ages, but also because it condemns condoms, aiding the spread of HIV in Africa. Useless pointy-hated hypocrites.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !
Are you serious?
"of what it did in the middle ages"
THE MIDDLE AGES!
Omg lets bomb Rome they tried to invade all of Europe! And while we're at it let's nuke Greece as well.. AH what the hell lets just shoot nukes all over the world!

[Serious Spamurai]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !
Are you serious?
"of what it did in the middle ages"
THE MIDDLE AGES!
Omg lets bomb Rome they tried to invade all of Europe! And while we're at it let's nuke Greece as well.. AH what the hell lets just shoot nukes all over the world!

Yay, bomb Rome you say? Sounds like fun! and Greece? even better! the whole world, sure! why not?
oh, and, of course i'm serious, read the username ^^^

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

don't get offended If I said bombing your countries was a good idea, i wasn't being serious...


Or was I?

[Rhinosaur]

The catholic church is responsible for more killing of the innocent (as has religion in general) than abortion clinics will ever do, not only because of what it did in the middle ages, but also because it condemns condoms, aiding the spread of HIV in Africa. Useless pointy-hated hypocrites.

This is the argument I've never understood. The Church condemns condoms to be sure, but it also condemns extra marital sex, so what's the problem? If I'm gonna break one rule/commandment/whatever, why wouldn't I break one more and wear a jimmy hat? Blaming the Church for the foolishness of others is a cop out.

[Jubal_Barca]

This is the argument I've never understood. The Church condemns condoms to be sure, but it also condemns extra marital sex, so what's the problem? If I'm gonna break one rule/commandment/whatever, why wouldn't I break one more and wear a jimmy hat? Blaming the Church for the foolishness of others is a cop out.

No, it's not. I don't really know if you understand the level of belief in most african countries - these people will do what they are told is a good thing by their priest. He's the only source of reference a lot of villages have on what to do, and if he says condoms are bad, they won't use them.

I do blame the Catholic Church's extremely repugnant views on this subject to be a significant factor in AIDS spread in Africa.

And while we're slagging off the Church, the fact is they're hypocrites in many cases. If one of their priests commits a sin (rapes a young girl or woman, commits a murder, etc.) the church just moves them on to another village, and another, and another, and they can keep commiting terrible crimes while completely protected by mother church. And if it gets too bad, they just bring them into the Vatican, where they can safely hide from the law forever. It's wrong.

Their views on these things are old, outdated and morally terribly wrong. The Catholics need a wakeup call. The 17th century's over now, guys.

Please note that I am not fundamentally opposed to the Catholic church, or indeed any religion, I just think that the Vatican need a rethink of their basic political views for me to find the Vatican morally acceptable. I would call on all Catholics to stand up and say this - it's your church, not the pope's, and since all the catholics I know are basically nice people, I really do think that it's in the hands of Catholics to take the church away from the Medieval era.

[Rhinosaur]

No, it's not. I don't really know if you understand the level of belief in most african countries - these people will do what they are told is a good thing by their priest. He's the only source of reference a lot of villages have on what to do, and if he says condoms are bad, they won't use them.

I do blame the Catholic Church's extremely repugnant views on this subject to be a significant factor in AIDS spread in Africa.

And while we're slagging off the Church, the fact is they're hypocrites in many cases. If one of their priests commits a sin (rapes a young girl or woman, commits a murder, etc.) the church just moves them on to another village, and another, and another, and they can keep commiting terrible crimes while completely protected by mother church. And if it gets too bad, they just bring them into the Vatican, where they can safely hide from the law forever. It's wrong.

Their views on these things are old, outdated and morally terribly wrong. The Catholics need a wakeup call. The 17th century's over now, guys.

Please note that I am not fundamentally opposed to the Catholic church, or indeed any religion, I just think that the Vatican need a rethink of their basic political views for me to find the Vatican morally acceptable. I would call on all Catholics to stand up and say this - it's your church, not the pope's, and since all the catholics I know are basically nice people, I really do think that it's in the hands of Catholics to take the church away from the Medieval era.

You contradict yourself. Africans believe harder/more/whatever and will do whatever the priest says insofar as condom use goes, but they won't where adultery is concerned. Adultery is specifically mentioned in the Bible as a bad thing, besides that most cultures consider it bad. I'm saying it's stupid to break some rules, but not break other rules that will actually protect you.

[Shadow_Imperator]

The catholic church is responsible for more killing of the innocent (as has religion in general) than abortion clinics will ever do, not only because of what it did in the middle ages, but also because it condemns condoms, aiding the spread of HIV in Africa. Useless pointy-hated hypocrites.

I don't agree with you at all.... Firstly, have you got any statistics that show how many 'innocent lives' the Church has to be held responsible for? Have you any affirmative detail as to how and why the Church is 'responsible' for these murders you claim? Secondly, I think you fail to comprehend to sheer scale of the abortion industry throughout the western world, here I'll provide some raw statistics in Australia:

1984/85 / 24435 – 13495 – 7460 – 1682 – 6090 – 746 – 1069 – 176 - 55153
1985/86 / 25173 – 13967 – 7841 – 1642 – 6329 – 829 – 1099 – 172 - 57052
1986/87 / 26353 – 15803 – 8208 – 1764 – 6857 – 780 – 1213 – 187 - 61165
1987/88 / 26315 – 15682 – 8596 – 1618 – 6702 – 783 – 1256 – 179 - 61131
1988/89 / 26865 – 16901 – 9449 – 1711 – 6967 – 727 – 1189 – 186 - 63995
1989/90 / 28136 – 18582 – 10451 – 1830 – 7384 – 751 – 1275 – 231 - 68640
1990/91 / 27997 – 18978 – 10421 – 1892 – 7624 – 814 – 1283 – 237 - 69246
1991/92 / 29296 – 19418 – 11540 – 1897 – 7703 – 972 – 1369 – 283 - 72478
1992/93 / 29521 – 19610 – 12180 – 1337 – 8061 – 993 – 1262 – 310 - 73274
1993/94 / 30516 – 20137 – 12756 – 1425 – 8290 – 1038 – 1330 – 341 - 75833
1994/95 / 31179 – 19923 – 13918 – 1203 – 8324 – 983 – 1395 – 292 - 77217
1995/96 / 31595 – 19786 – 13684 – 1004 – 8710 – 1035 – 1498 – 239 - 77551
1996/97 / 30983 – 19800 – 13652 – 839 – 8323 – 900 – 1435 – 259 - 76191

A column by column statistical analysis of abortions conducted state bye state, and the final figure, an Australia wide number of annual abortions conducted. These records run over a 12 year course from 1984/85 to 1996/97, the columns from left to right show figures from NSW, VIC, QLD, SA, WA, TAS, ACT, NT and AUSTRALIA wide.

*The following figures are from the COMMONWEALTH DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH. The figures are the total number of abortions in each state and the total in all of Australia.

Are you telling me the Church is responsible for over 75,000 deaths per year? To think that Australia is only a country of some 15 Million people... Think of the USA? The UK? Germany, France, Italy and other western nations with much higher populations... Your argument is a joke....

[Denny Crane!]

But by taking that view he is trying to force politicians to change their policies on supporting it, surely it would be easier to just pass out an edict saying no catholic should have an abortion.

By doing it this way they attempt to end the practice alltogether for non catholics as well.

[LoZz]

But by taking that view he is trying to force politicians to change their policies on supporting it, surely it would be easier to just pass out an edict saying no catholic should have an abortion.

By doing it this way they attempt to end the practice alltogether for non catholics as well.

and pro choicers dont do that allready? (obviously to suit their means though)


lets be real here, both sides are trying to win the public to their side.

[VALIS]

What an utterly preposterous title.
Not only have you lied in the title by saying that the Pope threatened politicians when in actual fact it was a Cardinal, but more to the point the Cardinal did not threaten a single person at all.
The cardinal has every right to voice his opinion on the matter.

He is a priest who believes that abortion is murder,he was advising his communion as who to vote for.If that is threatening behaviour then i assume Labour MP's who urge people to vote for them are threatening conservatives?
Don't be ridiculous.The cardinal has every right to voice his opinion on the matter and use his influential position to voice his concerns.

This entire thread is based on exaggerations and hyperbole to simply attack religion and Christianity.

[Denny Crane!]

What an utterly preposterous title.
Not only have you lied in the title by saying that the Pope threatened politicians when in actual fact it was a Cardinal,

Title of the article on the website not me. Did that strike a nerve did it

It wouldn't surprise me if this came from the pope, conservative and utterly repugnant as his views are. He is straight out of the 19th century.

but more to the point the Cardinal did not threaten a single person at all.
The cardinal has every right to voice his opinion on the matter.

Threatened "the barrier such co-operation erects to receiving holy communion". The threat is of withdrawal of support for politicians who support it or more importantly politicians who say they are catholic supporting abortion may no longer be considered to be catholic.

He is a priest who believes that abortion is murder,he was advising his communion as who to vote for.If that is threatening behaviour then i assume Labour MP's who urge people to vote for them are threatening conservatives?
Don't be ridiculous.The cardinal has every right to voice his opinion on the matter and use his influential position to voice his concerns.

And it threatens catholics so much that non catholics might choose differently than they do that they must start interfering in politics?

This entire thread is based on exaggerations and hyperbole to simply attack religion and Christianity.

Read my above sentence carefully. As soon as a religion starts interfering in politics or with politicians it is crossing the line as far as I am concerned by trying to impose its false morality on sections of the population that neither want it nor care for it.