Justice and revenge

[Khosson]

I've been thinking about this lately and i've come to the conclusion that they are the same.
Even if it is done by someone else(GOD for exemple) it is still revenge imo.I mean look at the principle..one has done something wrong and needs to be punished-it's the same principle in revenge and in justice.

What do you think about this?

[Sosobra]

Justice and Revenge are not the same things although people tend to equate the two. Justice serves the society while revenge quenches a person thirst for reprisal.


Justice
1 a : the quality of being just, impartial, or fair <it is not the province of the court to decide upon the justice or injustice…of these laws —Scott v. Sanford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857)> b : the principle or ideal of just dealing; also : conformity to the principle or ideal of just dealing

2 a : the administration of law <a fugitive from justice>; especially : the establishment or determination of rights according to law or equity <system of justice> b : fair, just, or impartial legal process <courts or tribunals…for the administration of international justice —G. Railroad Winters>

Revenge
1. The act of taking vengeance for injuries or wrongs; retaliation.
2. Something done in vengeance; a retaliatory measure.
3. A desire for revenge; spite or vindictiveness.
4. An opportunity to retaliate, as by a return sports match after a defeat.

The underlining difference is the backing of law and the emotion behind the action

From the Online Etymology Dictionary
Revenge seems to stress the idea of retaliation a bit more strongly and implies real hatred as its motivation.

[iudas]

In a sense, yes, they're related. But they are different things of the same category.
On the rudimentary bit, there's revenge; it's also something that may not always be fair or equal. Remember that if someone hurts you, you want to hurt them even more. Justice, on the other hand, is giving someone a punishment equal or less drastic that what he's done.

[Khosson]

Justice is beneficial for society just because people like to feel avenged.

[Tom Paine]

No, justice is beneficial for society because justice takes an unproductive member of society and turns him into one; vengeance just creates a cycle of vengeance.

[Khosson]

No, justice is beneficial for society because justice takes an unproductive member of society and turns him into one; vengeance just creates a cycle of vengeance.

That dose'nt always happen.Puting someone in a jail for 25 years is'nt gonna make him productive but it can sure boost the morale of the pople for whom justice is made.But it is'nt always 25 years soo i guess you are partially right

[Sosobra]

That dose'nt always happen.Puting someone in a jail for 25 years is'nt gonna make him productive but it can sure boost the morale of the pople for whom justice is made.But it is'nt always 25 years soo i guess you are partially right

Well for those 25 years he is not engaging in anti-social behavior and hence is being more productive , it may not be much productivity but it is an improvement.

[Khosson]

yes but who is more productive he or the former victims?

[Chaigidel]

I would say that justice is a form of properly consensus sanctioned revenge but revenge all the same--- vengeance is one of the most pleasurable emotions to satisfy

[Noble Savage]

vengeance is one of the most pleasurable emotions to satisfy

Yep I agree with that one,and should be the right of the harshly aggreaved victims ,It sometimes creates the cycle of retaliation, but I very much believe in "eye for an eye" contary what the law,morals or holy books say.

[Sosobra]

Yep I agree with that one,and should be the right of the harshly aggreaved victims ,It sometimes creates the cycle of retaliation, but I very much believe in "eye for an eye" contary what the law,morals or holy books say.

It doesn't sometimes create a cycle of retaliation it always does which is why we have laws. Without Justice all you have is a bunch of vindictive children running around stabbing each other in the eye.

[Noble Savage]

It doesn't sometimes create a cycle of retaliation it always does which is why we have laws. Without Justice all you have is a bunch of vindictive children running around stabbing each other in the eye.

It's all about scale I think ,obviously if someones being burgles,you shouldn't go round to their house and nick their stuff ,the law can deal with them and give out the punishment better suiting the crime (if the british legal system had some balls) but for something like homicide,rape or other violent crime ,they should be exexcuted (only with total 100 percent proof) or beaten to a pulp. Sorry call me old fashioned but for major crimes there should be major comeback. Muslims may not have everything correct but their sense of decency (in the case of their domestic laws anyway)and their brand of justice is certainly IMO correct.

[Tom Paine]

It's all about scale I think ,obviously if someones being burgles,you shouldn't go round to their house and nick their stuff ,the law can deal with them and give out the punishment better suiting the crime (if the british legal system had some balls) but for something like homicide,rape or other violent crime ,they should be exexcuted (only with total 100 percent proof) or beaten to a pulp. Sorry call me old fashioned but for major crimes there should be major comeback. Muslims may not have everything correct but their sense of decency (in the case of their domestic laws anyway)and their brand of justice is certainly IMO correct.

There is no such thing as 100% proof and the risk of the death of one innocent (and consequent release of one criminal, to boot) is not worth the deaths of ten thousand criminals.

[Luftwaffels]

3. A desire for revenge; spite or vindictiveness.

Where the heck did you find this definition?

It's like saying "Justice= A desire for justice" lol

[Chaigidel]

why not ozy? why is not one innocent person worth the death of a thousand criminals?--- by the numbers it seems it is well worth it.

[Chaigidel]

why do you think life is so valuable?--- would you kill a dog that killed a child?

I would -- I would also kill a man who killed a child because they are equal.
an ant is equal in value to a man--- i could say an ant is more valuable because it does good while men make nothing but problems and set life out of balance

[Chaigidel]

killing is the easiest and most efficient way of removing trouble from a society

[Curtana]

Societal justice is a means to make people do what is good for society. But this is not what justice IS.
Justice is a feeling. It does not exist outside of our minds. There is no justice there is just us. Meaning justice is not derived from nature but from our minds. Each person must find their own answer to the problems of justice and revenge.
Personally I say what we have lost through the amoral actions of others cannot be regained. Better to live your life as best you can than to spend it obsessing over revenge, fairness and justice.

[Noble Savage]

Societal justice is a means to make people do what is good for society. But this is not what justice IS.
Justice is a feeling. It does not exist outside of our minds. There is no justice there is just us. Meaning justice is not derived from nature but from our minds. Each person must find their own answer to the problems of justice and revenge.
Personally I say what we have lost through the amoral actions of others cannot be regained. Better to live your life as best you can than to spend it obsessing over revenge, fairness and justice.

I agree with you to agree ,but in my own head if something bad happened to someone I loved (touch wood) my own pride ,honour and my own guilt (terrible trait I know ,to harm someone for my guilt) would force me to enforce vengence in the nth degree. This would be wrong in more logical types but I do not live in a logical world. Just a world where power and loyalty are king.

[Chaigidel]

I think humanity is not very important or precious and yes if there were no laws and yes I would certainly kill a man for killing my dog-- not someone elses---why does sentience make you more important than an ant?

no you arent more important than an ant or a dog--- society just likes to tell you that... sure i feel connection to my people but I recognize there is no importance to people outside of my superficial loyalty to them---


again what makes a human life so precious?

humans are nothing-- and will be wiped away without consequence, shaken off like fleas