Marian Reforms

**Darviathar** · May 24, 2007, 05:47 PM

I try to play my Romans as close to history as possible, but given that conquering lands occurs far more easily in this game than would ever be remotely possibly in history, I've accepted the fact that it simply isn't possible to wait until 107 BC to allow my Italian Mainland cities to construct the imperial palace and trigger the reforms. I've decided that in future games I will trigger the reforms once my wars move beyond areas that fairly easy to supply troops to (Gaul/Carthage/Macedon). In a game I played until around 210, I had finished Macedon (who had long since knocked out the Greek Cities). Pontus had become the major eastern power, basically putting the Ptolemies out of the game without any involvement at all on my part. The Seleucids and Parthians were long dead, and Pontus was on the verge of finishing off the Bactrians. I found that it was simply impossible to sustain my invasion of Asia Minor, due to the constant shortage of Roman Troops. In short, as was historically the case, the wars were now taking place too far from Rome. I decided to initate the reforms about 100 years early, reasoning that had Rome been fighting a major eastern super power in around 200 BC that they would have likely done something simliar. I felt a bit guilty about it; the last thing I need as the Romans is another advantage, but being able to raise troops in Macedon would make prosecuting a war against Pontus possible.

I've since decided to restart (yet again), this time playing on Very Hard/Very Hard level. ( I was playing on H/VH with the previous game) and am hoping that playing on the maximum difficulty will make it tougher to reach the point of the campaign where I am basically fighting against me "end game" foe; i.e. the only other superpower on the map.

**Darth Caesar** · May 26, 2007, 12:13 PM

do you play with any house rules?

**Darviathar** · May 27, 2007, 10:06 PM

I may need to see an entire list of house rules, but I can't imagine anything that I am doing that would contradict them. I've come up with a few more rules of my own: Other than at the start when I simply must take the Italian cities quickly to avoid going broke, and fund the effort against Epirus (and Carthage, who sends ship after ship of troops to land between Rome and Capua) I besiege *every* city for the maximum time allowed, in order to not only slow down expansion but to give the computer more of a chance to respond. If a city has a port, I will not besiege it unless I am able to besiege the port as well, reasoning that such a city would be easily supplied by sea in such an event. I do not let any family member with less than 10 years of service serve as governor other than the very beginning when I have only a few. I retire generals to governship at age 50, even my 10 star commanders. In my current game I have reached 240 and could easily put Carthage out, yet have refrained from doing so. Much to my delight, the Numidians somehow lasted this long. I send armies to North Africa to conquer all the interior cites, then allowed them to revolt, sending several by default to the Numidians. I have conquered Jeunesis, Mediolanium, Bonnonia, and Patavium, but refrained from crossing the alps into Transalpine gaul. I have conquered the coastal Illyrian cities, but refrained from heading all the way to Apollonia to finish them off, in order to avoid provoking war with Thrace, who conquered Macedon very early in the campaign.

In short, I am doing everything I can think of to give the computer factions time to develop their cities and field better armies!

**Quinn Inuit** · May 26, 2007, 01:53 PM

How can we make it harder?

**Darviathar** · May 27, 2007, 10:27 PM

Well, playing as Rome is obviously much easier than it would be playing almost any other faction, given the superiority of their infrastructure and troops, but until I can complete a truly-satisfying game as Rome (and I've started and stopped so many times I've lost count, (many due to desktop crashes that I couldn't resolve) I simply cannot bring myself to get very far into a game as any other faction. I'll start and stop a game as the Seleucid Empire or Parthia, but never get past 260 or so.

I do have a few suggestions, however.

Do something to strengthen the factions that historically could challenge Rome. The ones that have troops that are good enough, if properly led, to give Roman legions a run for their money. I am mainly talking about the Seleucid Empire here. In *every* game I've played they are quickly engulfed and knocked out, not only by the Ptolemaic Empire, but by Bactria, the Galatians, and Pontus as well. NEVER by Parthia, who never EVER accomplish anything! Parthia stood against Rome far more successfully than the Ptolemaic Empire every did. But under computer control, starting with two mediocre cities, they simply don't have a chance. I've been looking at other mods lately, and noticed that some start Parthia with lands they wouldn't have historically had in 280 BC. From what I can tell, this would give them a real chance. The problem with Parthia is that they really wouldn't be on the map in 280 BC, at the height of Seleucid power. Even a distracted Seleucid Empire has no trouble crushing them. One of the mods I looked at gave them what would have been the starting lands of the Sassanid Dynasty, admittedly hundreds of years later, but not totally totally a-historical. I'm about fed up with the Bactrians. I realize many would disagree, but in my opinion, they serve little purpose in the current game, other than to virtually ensure that the Seleucids are never a factor. Carthage is underpowered as well, and I'm not sure why. It might be as simple as the fact that they simply don't have enough money to field killer stacks of armies for very long. They have port cities, but WHO can they trade with other than themselves? Their ports are on the far left of the map, and other than Spain, they have no one they really can trade with once war with Rome starts. In every game I've played, Carthage is a threat early to land full stacks in Italy, and occasionally in Sicily, to fill the oceans with 1 and 2 ship fleets, but by the 240's they are long past their zenith and could easily be conquered. Nor do they seem to utilize elephants enough in their armies. Carthaginian stacks consisting of nothing but Libyan Spearmen simply aren't a challenge. The computer handles cavalry poorly (and I realize this isn't a problem with the mod, more the AI), failing to utilize Numidian cavalry that could really be a problem for infantry legions. Carthage really needs to be strong in this game to keep Rome occupied for a while. My biggest problem is that after subduing Italy and Sicily, I find myself with the problem of not wanting to put Carthage out too early, nor move into Gaul, but having nothing to do. Rome is a war game; its not like Civlization or Galactic Empires, games in which it is a joy to be left alone and sit back and build and research. There simply isn't much to do in this game other than fight, so long periods without warfare simply don't occur. The game needs to be hard enough to prevent me from having to "call off the dogs" with Carthage, my first opponent in every game I play. Roman attempts to invade Africa in the first Punic war were total disasters. Carthage needs to have the finances to punish early attempts at invasion. They simply never fill the map with armies, as the Ptolemaic Empire does. I believe this is because they simply don't have the money to do so!

**Darviathar** · May 28, 2007, 12:50 AM

Oh, and one more thing....

CHANGE THE CONDITIONS TO TRIGGER THE MARIAN REFORMS IF AT ALL POSSIBLE!!!!

I was reading about another mod in which the reforms are triggered only when an Imperial Palace is built in Cisapline Gaul or Illyria. This would help my games immensely, as my Italian cities hit 24,000 by the 250's, a time in which I haven't even built provincial barracks!