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  1. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    It actually started in historum and spilled over to this forum: https://historum.com/threads/can-anyone-tell-me-in-detail-about-battle-ships-of-ming-and-japan.100284/page-11#post-3104735
  2. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    If slaves have no money then their "wage" is equivalent to just their upkeep. If you think slave masters provide for their slaves more than what slaves earn for their masters, I would like you to...
  3. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    By that logic the small 25 ton Dutch ships which outcompetes English shipping of the 17th century also sailed the Atlantic. Even the Medetterranean Sea would be the Atlantic Ocean but sailing in the...
  4. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    You need to provide a source for that and not have others do it for you.



    And did Ephebos train after their term of service? Western Han militia still served one month per year after their...
  5. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    I got it from you. You questioned whether Scythian police were paid three obols a day on the basis that they were public slaves and public slaves don't get paid. I was going to ask where you got your...
  6. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    If public slaves weren't paid then that's 0 obols rather than 3 obols.



    First I must apologize as I thought the Ephebos were military trainers, not conscripts receiving their two years of...
  7. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    And roads became wider over the centuries, a trend that continued on to present times. That doesn't mean Qin highways (20 meters wide) were more advanced than Roman roads.
    Ships today are made out...
  8. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    Again, if the artist left out a crossbow mounting bed as you claim, then it's even likelier that the artist would have left out a prop (which he drew in). You are arguing in favor of a much less...
  9. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    For Athenian wages in the fourth century (1 drachma = 6 obols):
    343 BC: Undersecretary gets 2-3 drachmas per mont
    4c: Scythian policemen paid 3 obols per day
    328 BC: Temple construction workers...
  10. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    Han dynasty Mingqi model of water powered trip hammers:

    https://i.imgur.com/ZHduVna.png

    Below the author is talking about another Mingqi pottery, albeit the paper do show the picture of the...
  11. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    If you think that I'm saying the picture is showing a person getting water for his family, no that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying a windlass is a more appropriate tool for getting water from a...
  12. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    Thanks, but that's a treadwheel more appropriate for large scale baths, not getting water for your family. I'm looking for the windlass used in wells.
  13. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    Waterwheels existed in the Han dynasty for powering trip hammers, furnaces, and an armillery sphere.

    As for your mention about Chinese adding reading glasses to a later text, it was first of all...
  14. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    There's a world of difference between not drawing the prop and not drawing an entire 'mounting bed' (which is basically not drawing FOUR props and a giant plank on top). Besides, if you could make...
  15. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    The Han probably had little to no fallow lands due to the practice of alternating fields. Not requiring fallow lands also increases the land available for other things, such as cash crops or raising...
  16. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    I didn't ask you



    This is still unclear on how you got the spacing between the furrows. Why don't you share the numbers you used in each step, with each step being in a different line? Similar...
  17. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    I'm also still waiting to see the proof of the claim: "it [China] was not the superior to all others as is so often claimed"
    So far not one quote is provided which claimed this. So far only one...
  18. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    How did you get five yards spacing? What is the spacing for Medieval ploughed furrows? Here are Han ploughs showing that they utilize more than one animal:

    https://i.imgur.com/Gqhr97G.jpg

    The...
  19. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    China did invent the paper, the compass, gunpowder, and printing. Do you deny that?

    The Four New Inventions are getting a lot of emphasis on the Chinese net that China didn't really invent them,...
  20. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    Sounds like he's not being that exact. My source comes from the Han dynasty book "Nine Chapters of Mathematical Art", in which it says "1 mu of field has 240 [square] bu, and 1 qing of field has 100...
  21. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    Your concluding statement in your OP said, and I quote: "it [China] was not the superior to all others as is so often claimed"
    I asked you to show quotes to prove it. You gave a guy using Needham to...
  22. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    100 Mou is 11.4 acres. The passage for the 11.4 acres have an incentive to exaggerate, but the inferior plough with 2 oxen managed 2.85 acres have an incentive to underestimate. In comparison Pliny...
  23. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    Where did Chao Cuo say that a plough was capable of 16 acres per day? Nowhere in the passage I gave did it say that. The passage included ploughing and seeding, it had the word "ploughing" in it, so...
  24. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    https://historum.com/threads/what-were-the-most-advanced-medieval-civilizations.125968/page-14

    So cost of labor was considered in the experiment and dibbling wheat was more profitable than...
  25. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    I will provide the links and sources once you answered my original question that you still haven't answered.
    How many historians claimed pre-modern China was superior to all others in the first...
  26. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    1. Parchment was very expensive and tend to smear whereas the more common Roman papyrus tended to crack. Just because it's used in a codex doesn't mean they were using the best type possible. In the...
  27. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    This was my original question: How many historians claimed pre-modern China was superior to all others in the first place? Let me see their quotes claiming this.

    None of what you said gave quotes...
  28. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    People should learn better by now given the Tonkin incident, the Nayirah testimony, or Iraq having nuclear weapons.


    A separate survey conducted by Goldstein in 2000 asked Tibetans in TAR "Do...
  29. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    Where in that article did it say pre-modern China was superior to all others?

    On the other hand if we're bringing in wikipedia articles then this section of wikipedia is obviously wrong:
    ...
  30. Re: Was China really that far ahead of everyone else in the past?

    How many historians claimed pre-modern China was superior to all others in the first place? Let me see their quotes claiming this.



    How many Chinese scholars have you read? And if by "Chinese...
  31. Re: Why did the the Ming crossbows become so weak compared to earlier Chinese ones?

    I implied what followed came from Williams because what followed DID come from Williams, please don't imply that it doesn't. You claimed I "quoted" from Williams, which I did not. Just because I...
  32. Re: Why did the the Ming crossbows become so weak compared to earlier Chinese ones?

    I gave you a picture from the book. I did not "quote" from Alan Williams, I showed you the result of the test he displayed. Every time I quoted before I used a quote box or put the words in italics,...
  33. Re: Why did the the Ming crossbows become so weak compared to earlier Chinese ones?

    What is the evidence for Greek hand held ballistas and what is the evidence for the tactical niche of the Greek ballista?
  34. Re: Why did the the Ming crossbows become so weak compared to earlier Chinese ones?

    That's not what he said. It seems you are hiding by caliber now. According to the curve given by Alan Williams, changing the barrel from 300 mm to 420 mm would affect the caliber from 8.3 to 11.7 and...
  35. Re: Why did the the Ming crossbows become so weak compared to earlier Chinese ones?

    Your question was answered by the first two sentences of post 209, did you forget? I will repost them for you:
    This was what you said in post 204: Because the exact dimensions are not the same here...
  36. Re: Why did the the Ming crossbows become so weak compared to earlier Chinese ones?

    The single test you've shown only said that muskets could hit a specific man-sized (not even army-sized) target at 100 meters with 50% chance.
    The Ming source only said that She Qiang handgunners...
  37. Re: Why did the the Ming crossbows become so weak compared to earlier Chinese ones?

    Common soldier, when I first provided the quote to you, you responded in post 152 by saying this:
    Knowing the lack of accuracy of the early hand cannons, 150 m (100 paces) seem rather like a long...
  38. Re: Why did the the Ming crossbows become so weak compared to earlier Chinese ones?

    I was obviously quoting from Chinese sources, why are you bringing in Roman units of measurement? When using Chinese sources, you should convert to modern units by using Chinese units of measurement,...
  39. Re: Why did the the Ming crossbows become so weak compared to earlier Chinese ones?

    The early Medieval Tongdian says: 其弩手去贼一百五十步即发箭,弓手去贼六十步即发箭。若贼至二十步内,即射手、弩手俱舍弓弩,令驻队人收。其弓拿手先络膊,将刀棒自随,即与战锋队齐入奋击。
    The crossbowmen fire at the bandits (enemy) when the distance is 150 paces(225m), the...
  40. Re: Why did the the Ming crossbows become so weak compared to earlier Chinese ones?

    This was what you said in post 204: Because the exact dimensions are not the same here the Loshult gun, and the those tested in the Knight and the Blast Furnace table of kinetic energy and barrel...
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