[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

My pleasure!

I would tell you to make sure you have the required amount of troops but if you're fighting fullstacks you probably do :P

I'm pretty sure the settlements I named are those mentionned in the script. I wouldn't mind somebody verifying though, if there's doubt.

If you really do fill the battle requirements, here's a couple of theories. First, maybe NumFriendsInBattle doesn't do what I think it does. It bothers me because it's a different metric than for the enemy, and doesn't quite make much sense with the unit size options. That this is the required amount of men in the army is the only thing that made sense to me, but maybe it does something else?
Second idea I have is the conflict type withdraw. I assume that means when the enemy army concedes? Like they can do once before being forced into a fight? Because that's the only thing that makes sense. But again, that doesn't mean it's what it means, so maybe that's what's not working.

Annnd now that I'm looking into it again, I think I might have another idea. Notice how it just sets the kingship counter to one? Usually the script mentions the Historic event that announces the reform. For example, in Pahlava's reform script, you have this line : "historic_event HE_PARTHIA_IMPERIAL factions { f_parthia, }" Now, it doesn't talk about any events for Pergamon, it just counts that you have reached the required conditions. I originally just assumed the event was scripted elsewhere, I don't know what's possible or not. But maybe there just isn't an event for it yet? Maybe it just monitors your achievements and takes note of when you've done what it wants you to, but once you have nothing really happens... because nothing was really scripted to happen yet?

Just started a new campaign with Pergamon, this time with the kingship counter set to 1. And voila, the basilike patris appeared in the building browser (with hetaroi and oxybeles as recruitement options). So this trigger works, it´s just without any further confirmation, it seems. And it looks like I´ve just not met the needed requirements in my other campaign yet. Would love to know what the culprit is...:P

Anyone managed to get the Attalid kingdom reform without editing files?

Ah, well that ties in to my last idea. It's a good thing that that doesn't stop the reform. There just isn't a historic event for it.

It would be good to verify that the reform does work normally though.

Any luck finding data regarding the Boii reforms? Thanks in advance.

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Originally Posted by Zumuk

Any luck finding data regarding the Boii reforms? Thanks in advance.

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As far as I can tell, there are none yet. Perhaps once more units make it into the game.

marian reform whwn will come?

I have a question.

I see that some reforms are supposed to give you new units, which for example aren't in the costum battles section. For example it says that if Baktria becomes a kingdom, it gets access to get Hetairoi.

Can anyone confirm this? And if so, can anyone tell me which are the new units Pontos or Armenia for example get?

Thanks!

As far as Pontos is concerned only Harmata Drepanyfora, Kuvesanagha Cavalry and Peltastai Logades...that's why i said that it was unfair to go through a lot of trouble for the reforms and not get anything in return:no:

Here is a screenshot about the unit recruitment options:

Attachment 314165

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Originally Posted by malibu.stacey

If you complete the Baktrian Indepence, you´ll have the option to built the Basilike Patris (Royal Homeland) in Baktra (or any other Metropolis, for that matter).

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In my current Baktria game, I've became independent after winning 9 battles and conquering 2 regions. However it's still not possible to build Basilike Patris. I suppose the reason is a low greek cultural level in Baktra, so it can't became Metropolis. How did you managed to increase the culture? I have governeurs with a high management skill, only greek buildings, high level temples and only greek regions around me. But the cultural level in all my 3 starting regions is actually decreasing instead of increasing. :thumbsdow:wallbash:

Decreasing? Did you build a Indigenous Recruitement building? And you´re right, you need 69% hellenestic polis to upgrade to a metropolis, then you can build the basilike patris. It should appear in the building browser (where you can see all the building options), though. Fastest way to increase the hellenistic polis is to build the military settlers barracks.

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Originally Posted by malibu.stacey

Decreasing? Did you build a Indigenous Recruitement building? And you´re right, you need 69% hellenestic polis to upgrade to a metropolis, then you can build the basilike patris. It should appear in the building browser (where you can see all the building options), though. Fastest way to increase the hellenistic polis is to build the military settlers barracks.

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In Oktobara I've had in fact Indigeneous Recruitement building. Destroyed it, but can't build a greek equivalent, probably due to a low greek culture level. In Baktra I have Hellenistic Polis building but no Military Settlers Barracks.

edit. Just realized that I can't build military settlers building in any city only indigenenous in some of them. Is it a bug?

You need hellenistic settler points (16, I think) to build a military barrack. These points are generated by a hellenistic metropolis (I have no idea where to check how many points you already have, though). If you start with e.g. Ptolemaioi you´ll get the pop-up advisor telling you that there are colonists available right at the first turn. Same apllies to Baktria after a certain amount of time.

EDIT: Oh, and you can´t build the settler barracks in a province that hasn´t your factional government type (democratic/oligarchic).

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Originally Posted by malibu.stacey

You need hellenistic settler points (16, I think) to build a military barrack. These points are generated by a hellenistic metropolis (I have no idea where to check how many points you already have, though). If you start with e.g. Ptolemaioi you´ll get the pop-up advisor telling you that there are colonists available right at the first turn. Same apllies to Baktria after a certain amount of time.

EDIT: Oh, and you can´t build the settler barracks in a province that hasn´t your factional government type (democratic/oligarchic).

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But if these settler points are generated by metropolis I can't receive any of them because neither of my cities (including Baktra) has such a status. Or do I misunderstand something?

About the statement in the edit. Does this mean that I can't build the barracks in my original three cities, because they aren't democratic or oligarchic allied states?

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Originally Posted by paullus

Ok that's good. Total Greek population between the two Baktrian populations in 272 BC was probably not greater than 40,000 and included huge numbers of Hellenized Asians and mixed marriages.

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... therefore the option to Hellenize Baktria is intentionally severely limited - basically further Hellenization can really start only
EITHER after Baktria conquers a region containing pre-existing metropolis - i.e. fairly late in the campaign
OR after it upgrades one of its settlements to metropis status using the very slowly rising of Hellenistic culture due to ownership and governor's influence.

That is a part of the challenge playing this faction - Hellenistic in nature of its elites, but forced to operate within culturally quite foreign environment.

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Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin

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OR after it upgrades one of its settlements to metropis status using the very slowly rising of Hellenistic culture due to ownership and governor's influence.

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Exactly this is not possible.
Baktra is the city with the highest cultural level of 50% of you starting cities. In my last game in turn 131 it was surrounded by baktrian provinces since more or less the beginning of the game, the governor had 9 points of influence and the cultural level was still on 50% level. To reach metropolis status you need 69%. If thats not possible to gain a single one percent after 130 turns by best possible circumstances, how should you manage to get 19% even during the long campaign? That's clearly not a challenge but a simple bug.
As for the first possibilty. I think the next metropolis should be Seleukeia or probably even Antiocheia. Therefore to build typical baktrian units you need to conquer nearly the whole Arche. Which is whether historical not a good gameplay solution.

No matter what, the Baktrian campaign is bugged on the current status. You simply cannot became a metropolis, regardless of your actions and further circumstances. Therefore whether the whole culture spread mechanics need to be changed or (a much simpler solution) Baktra became a metropolis. From the beginning on or via an event.

Or have a low level settler barrack from the start, that should help with the conversion.

But it is possible to get a metropolis in Baktra in the game (at least it was in 2.00), because this happened in my game without any cheats, it just took a while, turn 250, if I remember correctly.

I edited the OP with this need of a metropolis thing for Baktria's government.

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Originally Posted by Simpelicity

Sweboz

There seems to be 2 reforms. They trigger automatically after 32 years (128 turns) and 52 years (208).
PS I'd love confirmation on this.

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Ok, I tested Sweboz :

I left the capital and migrate to two settlements.
Waited for 128th turn : I saw nothing.
Waited for 208th turn : I saw nothing.

So two things : either the reform is silent (I could evolve to stonewall upgrade...) and it occured, or it need something else. Could be ownership over original settelment, or the "homeland" government (which I couldn't have since I had not enough culture) or a perticular kind of tribe.

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Originally Posted by Legion_IX

Exactly this is not possible.
Baktra is the city with the highest cultural level of 50% of you starting cities. In my last game in turn 131 it was surrounded by baktrian provinces since more or less the beginning of the game, the governor had 9 points of influence and the cultural level was still on 50% level. To reach metropolis status you need 69%. If thats not possible to gain a single one percent after 130 turns by best possible circumstances, how should you manage to get 19% even during the long campaign? That's clearly not a challenge but a simple bug.
As for the first possibilty. I think the next metropolis should be Seleukeia or probably even Antiocheia. Therefore to build typical baktrian units you need to conquer nearly the whole Arche. Which is whether historical not a good gameplay solution.

No matter what, the Baktrian campaign is bugged on the current status. You simply cannot became a metropolis, regardless of your actions and further circumstances. Therefore whether the whole culture spread mechanics need to be changed or (a much simpler solution) Baktra became a metropolis. From the beginning on or via an event.

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Once the right colony is in place it takes about 19 years to increase the culture 19%, so not really very long in a nearly 300-year long campaign.

Conquering a metropolis in the first place is the problem, as there are only five at start: Corinth, Athens, Alexandria, Pergamon, and Syracuse. The Seluecids don't even have a city on that list; why would there be one in Baktria?

Rather than there not being enough cities with metropolises, I'd almost be willing to argue against Alexandria being a colonist-producing city -- it wasn't yet 60 years old when the game starts.

You can conquer other cities with a polis -- you don't have to build your own.

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Originally Posted by Floren d'Asteneuz

Ok, I tested Sweboz :

I left the capital and migrate to two settlements.
Waited for 128th turn : I saw nothing.
Waited for 208th turn : I saw nothing.

So two things : either the reform is silent (I could evolve to stonewall upgrade...) and it occured, or it need something else. Could be ownership over original settelment, or the "homeland" government (which I couldn't have since I had not enough culture) or a perticular kind of tribe.

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The script is weird for sweboz. In the the reform section, it actually says that it's scripted in another file entirely (descr_events). And in that file, it pretty much gives those years as the reform years. That being said, it is only scripted to increase a counter, so yes, it would be silent. I also don't know if the counter increasing has any effect yet.

It's also quite weird because at the same place where the sweboz reforms are scripted (descr_events), there's script for the lugian reforms. However, there's also some scripting done in the reform section of campaign_script for the lugian reforms... and it's not even the same script! Maybe the scripting in descr_events just isn't applied? I dunno.