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Oh my...Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
It seems to be a big mess in there. It's normal when scripting to leave things unfinished for later use, of course. But it would be really, really great if a member of the team could simply state what are the reforms, if they are finished or not and how to obtain them. Like in the FAQ of EB1.
You can't do that with Bactria. At least not in 2.0. You can build only native baracks - which increases the conversion rate of eastern imperial only. Which means, you can't really do anything but conquering a metropolis, and those are far away :( This is why I abandoned my test campaign with Bactria (with .0)Quote:
Originally Posted by malibu.stacey
Colos
He tells you that he did it and you answer it's impossible to do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Colos1987
lmao
EDIT
Updated the OP with results of the sweboz test.
I've played the 2.01 version. Now I'm playing with the extended offices submod, where Baktra is a metropolis from the beginning on and it works fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by malibu.stacey
Again, the problem is that you can establish a colony only if you have a metropolis, having a polis is not enough (Baktra for example a polis from the beginning on). So you never get a colonist, not a single one, throughout the whole Baktria campaign. But you despirately need them to increase the culture level->became metropolis->complete the reform. As written before it's a typical vicious cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballpoint202
Exactly the same happened with my 2.01 campaign. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Colos1987
Like I said, it was 2.0, I haven't had the opportunity to try out 2.1. And yes, in that game I could not build settler baracks for some reason, just the indigenius one. I guess it was a problem with that game only? Maybe a bug of some sort?Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
Also, governors didn't have any effect on conversion whatsoever. Thinking of it, is it possible that only a governor of Hellenistic origin can increase conversion rate (for Hellenistic factions, I mean)?
Not trying to contradict anyone, just sharing my experiences :)
Colos
You could build settler baracks only if new colonists arrive and this is only available if you have a metropolis. Governeuers have an impact on the conversion rate, but the problem is that there are fixed levels of your culture which could only be increased by building the colonist barrack. So no matter what you do if you didn't build a barrack the relevant culture will not increase at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colos1987
edited to remove. I believe I got it wrong (I was cooking chili while reading the edb, so I plead distraction). sorry
Those hidden ressources sound a lot like governement types.
Yes. Perhaps because they have no metropolises at start, the Seleucids and Baktrians get to use the "native" political structures and subdivisions to install factional governments. The only Baktrian govt type that needs a metropolis (baktria7) has no hidden resource requirements at all (except that it does, because its antecedent baktria6 does).Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
It completely makes sense that neither Seleukids nor Baktrians have metroloplises, or can colonise. They are both a minuscule hellenistic ruling class, ruling over a population largely non hellenistic. It's especially bad for Baktria, being so far away from Greece.
How do hidden ressources work though? Is it possible that building something adds hidden ressources? Because if those ressources are gov buildings (or come from them) it makes perfect sense. You can only build the hyparchia if there's no hyparchia already, and you can only build hyparchia's upgrade if hyparchia is already there. Similar thing with the rest of what you were saying, although your descriptiong of it is a little more imprecise, so I'm not entirely certain.
@ Simpelicity And what for Carthaginians reforms??
Okay, here is the actual error in the EDB:
As you can see, baktria2 requires "not hidden_resource hyparchia" and upgrades to baktria4.Quote:
;Basilike Arche (Royal Administration)
baktria2 city requires factions { f_baktria, } and not building_present govallied and not hidden_resource satrapy and not hidden_resource hyparchia and event_counter ecBaktriaKingdom 1
{
capability ;;; enables Hellenistic or Native colonization, recruitment 8 * 0.04 comes from the first two levels of colony
{
happiness_bonus bonus -2 requires factions { f_baktria, }
recruitment_slots 1 requires factions { f_baktria, } and not event_counter ecWinter 1
recruitment_slots 2 requires factions { f_baktria, } and event_counter ecWinter 1
}
material stone
construction 2
cost 1200
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
baktria4
}
And here we see that baktria4 requires the hidden resource hyparchia.Quote:
;Satrapal District (Hyparchia)
baktria4 city requires factions { f_baktria, } and not building_present govallied and hidden_resource hyparchia and building_present colony_hellenistic or building_present colony_eastern and event_counter ecBaktriaKingdom 1 or hidden_resource baktria
{
capability ;;; enables native colonization, recruitment: up to 12 * 0.04 comes from Eastern colony building plus up to 12 * 0.04 may come from Hellenistic polis
{
trade_level_bonus bonus -1 requires factions { f_baktria, }
recruitment_slots 1 requires factions { f_baktria, } and not event_counter ecWinter 1
recruitment_slots 4 requires factions { f_baktria, } and event_counter ecWinter 1
}
material stone
construction 6
cost 4800
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
}
So it is impossible to upgrade the government baktria2 Basilike Arche (Royal Administration).
Am I seeing this correctly? I believe so.
Anyway, that aside, here is the Baktrian govt scheme in a nutshell. I'm spelling it out like this because some government buildings don't show up on the building browser, eg, Roman Free Cities.
There are three paths: Hyparchia, Satrapy and other. Only one path is available to each region, depending on the presence of the hidden resources satrapy and hyparchia. The final govts are, respectively: Satrapal District (Hyparchia), Basilike Patris (Royal Homeland), and Epistateia epi Hellenas (Supervised Hellenic Administration).
Where there is Hyparchia, the path is this:
Military Occupation upgrades to baktria1 Laarchia if there are no native colonies or hellenistic colonies or polis present, or to baktria2 Basilike Arche (Royal Administration) after the reforms regardless of the presence or absence of colonies or polis, or to baktria4 Satrapal District (Hyparchia) if there is a native or hellenistic colony, and either the reforms have taken place or the region has the hidden resource "Baktria".
baktria1 Laarchia and baktria2 Basilike Arche (Royal Administration) can each upgrade to baktria4 Satrapal District (Hyparchia) if there is a native or hellenistic colony, and either the reforms have taken place or the region has the hidden resource "Baktria". However, note the bug I pointed out at the beginning of this post.
Where there is Satrapy, the path is this:
Military Occupation upgrades to baktria1 Laarchia if there are no native colonies or hellenistic colonies or polis present, or to baktria6 Satrapeia if there is either a native or hellenistic colony present, and if either the reforms have taken place or the hidden resource Baktria is present.
baktria1 Laarchia can upgrade to baktria6 Satrapeia if there is either a native or hellenistic colony present, and if either the reforms have taken place or the hidden resource Baktria is present.
baktria6 Satrapeia can upgrade to baktria7 Basilike Patris (Royal Homeland) if there is a metropolis and a level 3 hellenistic colony present, and the reforms have taken place.
Where there is neither Hyparchia or Satrapy, the path is this:
Military occupation upgrades to baktria3 Eleutheria kai Autonomia (Hellenic Administration) if there is a polis present but no colonies, and if the reforms have taken place.
baktria3 Eleutheria kai Autonomia (Hellenic Administration) upgrades to baktria5 Epistateia epi Hellenas (Supervised Hellenic Administration) if there is a polis and a hellenistic colony and the reforms have taken place.
So, three paths, only one of which is truly bugged, but the others require conquoring cities with existing polis or even a metropolis.
An interesting explanation but you ignored my question, ie : is it possible for a province to gain ressources and how? Because the upgrade is only impossible if the province cannot gain the ressource after baktria2 has been built. That being said, the error most likely isn't the ressource requirements, it's more likely to be the calling baktria4 an upgrade to baktria 2, at least feels that way to me.
Meanwhile, your breakdown doesn't make sense to me. From what you quote, baktria2 falls in the "neither Hyparchia nor satrapy" category, yet you place it with hyparchia. Why is that?
I believe that a hidden resource can't be gained or lost. It is permanent.
I place baktria2 with hyparchia because it upgrades to baktria4 which requires hyparchia and doesn't upgrade further. There is definitely a typo in the file, given the contradiction I mentioned above -- either baktria2 doesn't really upgrade to baktria4 (but then what does it upgrade to?), or baktria4 doesn't really require hyparchia (but then what happens to regions that have neither the hyparchia or satrapy hidden resources?), or baktria2 actually requires hyparchia rather than not.
So I'm assuming that the error is that it should actually require hyparchia like baktria4 to which it upgrades. Only the mod team knows for sure.
eta: the system is actually more complex than I made it. I organized it by the three ultimate govt types (baktria4, baktria5 and baktria7), but for example, while baktria5 requires the absence of both satrapy and hyparchia, baktria3 which leads to it, doesn't.
It's very convoluted, but I suppose that Baktria's situation was pretty convoluted when you get right down to it. ;)
I made a quick search about "sauro_prec" in the eb directory, with the parameter "file content".Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
In the file "export.buildings.txt" in \data\text there is this :
I conclude that "sauro_prec" is "Afsadta Aegdautae (Occupation and Tribute Extortion)".Code:{sauro_prec} Afsadta Aegdautae (Occupation and Tribute Extortion)
{sauro_prec_desc} The Sauromatai, like the Skythians before them occasionally allow defeated enemies to remain essentially autonomous as tribute paying vassals. This is far from the normal occurrence, as defeated nomads usually are absorbed into the stronger tribe or move on (usually west), and settled enemies are usually relocated, killed or enslaved. As long as the locals pay their tribute on time, they are allowed to live as they traditionally have. The Sauromatai tributaries were often settled peoples, despite the often hostile relationship they had with nomads, while lesser nomadic tribes were usually used as allies, but more often than not, they were absorbed into the larger tribal confederation. \n\nStrategy\n\nThis initial level of Sarmatian administration represents simple imposition of tribute upon vanquished enemy, who is otherwise left alone to his devices. Thus no recruitment is possible in the region, which however provides handy income in cash for a moderate happiness penalty. \n\nIn nomadic regions further options become available after the initial conquest, representing absorption of the indigenous tribes into Sarmatian tribal confederacy while at the same time Sarmatian tribesmen are migrating to these newly acquired lands in search of pasture and wealth.
{sauro_prec_desc_short} Oh Mighty! Our armies were once again victorious and the humbled natives will from now on have to pay a hefty sum to our treasury to keep our arrows from raining down upon them.
Hm yes, it's basically their military occupation. Strange how the reform script requires that specifically, you'd think it would require the upgraded versions, not the basic one. Perhaps a typo where "=" was used instead of ">"?
Updated the sauromatae in the OP.
Wait, it is that building and that building alone ? Not the upgrade ? I will try it's functionality when I'll achieve to have the required walls. If it doesn't do anything, I'll destroy my gov buildings and re-build the occupation to check it out. (can't say I'll do that today though)Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
Yes. Here's the script :Quote:
Originally Posted by Floren d'Asteneuz
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
When the tributaries counter reaches 5, the reform happens. As far as I can tell, when it uses ">" that means higher ranks of that building, or upgrades of it, while when it uses "=" it means that exact building. So, walls of higher rank than "wooden palissade", but exactly "sauro_prec".
All right, thanks ! I let you know what I find out !
The idea behind this scipt is that first Sarmatians need to subject several settled peoples - thence "> wooden_pallisade" which means at least large town and "= sauro_prec" which is the only "factional" governement available to Sarmatians in settled areas (Allied States means alliance, which is different from direct control, Clan Lands means continuation of nomadic tribal societal structure, again something from which one does not "learn" settled ways too much). Only after these conditions are satisfied, will the faction learn how to incorporte their settled subjects more effectively into their realm and gain the settled administation gov level.
All right, I tested it : it works exactly like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin
It gives access to a settled governement ("Sarmatian Settled administration", upgrading the occupation and extortion gov) and this governement gives access to settled type buildings. It seems quite standard buildings for "barbarian". No more, no less.
I updated the sauromatae with all that, thanks you 2 :)
Sweboz reforms were tested and confirmed to work properly by Nightshift. OP updated accordingly.
No reforms for Kart-Hadast?
Not yet. I've added a disclaimer now, y'all can stop asking about the missing reforms. Hopefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummer
Meanwhile, Qvintvs from the .org forum has tested the Numidia reforms, I've updated the OP with much more accurate information on it.
Playing Hayasdan it keeps popping up the message "royal authority rises"... i think its the first step of teh reforms. But i cant actually do anything. I also built the royal thing in my capital and 6 satrapies. Ive read that i need a "eastern military colony" to unlock new units. Im actually conquering the world relying only on mercenaries O.o
Royal authority rises has nothing to do with it afaik.
What version of EBII are you playing?
Im playing 2.01 ;)
Good, that means your reform works. That was not the case in 2.0.
If you really have built the caucasus tribal kingdom gov as much as you say you have, then you should've had a historic event about the caucasian kingdom (NOT the rising authority thing). Once you got that you should be able to build a new, non-tribal gov type everywhere. if you can't, try destroying and rebuilding. But I can't really help you further than that. I just read the script and say how it should work. If it's not working as it should, then either I'm reading it wrong, or you need tech support. In either case I can't help you haha ;)
I had the caucasian kingdom event but i couldnt build any better govern. But i destroyed the gov in the capital and rebuit it and now i can. Thanks ;)
No problem!
Talking about that, the royal authority message and the colonist message you get for other factions could be made to appear only once or twice....
This may not be the best place to address this though? I mean, I'm not part of the EB team. They might read this, but if you want to make sure to reach them, I imagine you could write down your script suggestion in the tech help forum.
Taksashila is working correctly, this is my experience
I took about 160 turns to collect 7 settlements. During this time they never asked for military aid and i was never attacked by another faction so they never needed to send military aid, i kept to my self. Then i refused the Mauryan tribute.
They would not tolerate this and sent their armies after me. Randomly, a full rebel stack or a half rebel stack would appear on the edge of the map. I had my intelligence ready for them and they assassinated their commanders, they would aimlessly wander around. i don't know if they would of attacked anything if i left their commanders but they seemed lost in the dessert. My armies hunted them down but it was still a tough fight.
I had only defeated 2 stacks when turn 170 arrived. After this turn you still get a random chance of and army appearing however only the invasion message appears and no army. When this happened 2 more times It triggered the "4 Mauryan armies defeated" condition. I believe the invasion message automatically counts as a defeated army after turn 170 but i also hunted down small rebel aphistamenoi so i can't really tell.
After the 4th invasion message it was quiet. There is no celebration message or notification i just noticed I was able to build Mauryan Urban Center. I still have Indian Tribal Culture as my main it does not change.
Another thing is there is now 2 options for the Direct Mauryan Control government its a slight bug they are both same thing and both lead to Mauryan Urban Center.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Mauryan Urban Center
This does not show in the building browser, so here i believe are the requirements for Mauryan Urban Center
Military Occupation(sword in ground) >> Direct Mauryan Control(8 spoke wheel) >> Mauryan Urban Center(place holder pic)
also needed
35% Indian Tribal Culture
Stone Wall settlement
Mid scale farm
Market
@Wulfburk Really? Im actually getting the royal authority message every turn :/ I mean its not a problem, but are you saying its not suppose to happen?
No actually, the way it is now it is supposed to appear every turn, i just said i'd prefer if it didnt. (same with the colonist message), but this is for another topic.
@Mantaprey Thanks for testing it! The mauryans are not scripted to ask for help, just to give it to you. Sometimes. And you don't need 7 settlements to declare independance, just to make it official, but hey, you can choose to wait until you have 7 settlements before trying your luck :)
The script specifically keeps track of the FM spawned with the armies. For example, when it spawns a fullstack, it flips the "fullstack spawned" switch on, and then keeps track of the FM. If the family member ceases to exist while the flip is on, it will consider that you have defeated that army, and flip the fullstack back to off, AKA it can now spawn again.
On a side note, the AI for these mauryan armies is also scripted here, and again it passes through the FM. If you kill it, it becomes just another random Eleutheroi army, which you don't particularly need to hunt down, unless you want to get rid of the devastation of course.
However, I don't understand how you got army-spawning messages past turn 170. The monitor that triggers these events (not to mention spawns the armies) gets turned off entirely at turn 171.
So why weren't the reforms working for me or Floren?Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
What, exactly, triggers them?
Time and time only. You should get it on the given turns in the OP. Note that only the first reform was tested by Nightshift.Quote:
Originally Posted by saxnot
The reform is silent (no event notifies you it has happened) and has little effect, it is possible you have simply missed it. Check your units, as I understand it, 3 of them should have changed to "Late germanic..." as opposed to "Early", with slightly better stats. At least that's for the first reform.
Dear simpelicity
I had to wait till around turn 185 for the messages to stop. After that i could build Mauryan Urban Center.
Still don't know why the messages would continue. That being said, the script doesn't automatically count the army as defeated, weirdly enough. Once the FM is dead, it has a small chance every turn of counting as a defeated army. It's quite possible you had to wait until 185 because your fourth victory didn't count until then.
The thing is getting weird now guys. Still playing Hayasdan, but im pretty disappointed. Im the #1 power in this campaign, but im still forced to fight with non-faction units. Its like 180 BC and my empire runs from sardis to persia, so isnt that at least strange that i cannot recruit any decent factional unit? Im stuck with the sparabara-type spearmen, archers, "lesser noble" cavalry and hillbillies with axes. I only use mercenaries or non-faction units i can recruit in allied democracies or olygarchies. And i cant figure out why :(
mods in a beta stage, thats why:-)
Well, maybe ur right. They have my support anyway :)
Corrected the Pahlava reform requirements. You need farms rank 4, not 3.
On a side note, Pahlava's reform has been tested and it seems to work properly.
That's me. I put it in both places because some people only go to one.
Hey Guys,
I'm currently 100 turns into my Numidian Campaign and I have converted three camps into cities. I then demolished the herds in the three cities and began building the farms.... Can I assume that I will be getting my reform after that? If so, what types of troops will I get after the reform?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
V2.01
THE P-MAN
You get to convert the things by building max farms, so if you've converted 3 already, in theory you don't need to be building farms anymore. Also in theory, if you really did convert them, then your reform already happened, although it seems it hasn't for you.
What do you call "converting into cities"? It seems you didn't do it the proper way, and I'm wondering if you did it at all.
I am past turn 208 and have apparently not gotten the second reform for Sweboz, the first worked well though!
Hmm, indeed, the counter is set to increase, but now that you mention it, I can't find an effect to it.
Out of curiosity, can you still recruit "late germanic" versions of your units?
Yes I can but the heavy infantry still sau next armor upgrade second reform its all very odd.
If you are playing with those trouser-wearing, mischief-making brutes: make a custom battle and see if you can apply armour upgrades to some of your units, bronze represents the first reform, silver the second. The look on the battle map also changes quite a bit, e.g. Solduras without any upgrade only have a couple of mailed units, with a silver upgrade they have different helmets and all of them are wearing mail.
Oh, that's cool, I had totally forgotten the game had that feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by malibu.stacey
Did someone manage to get the Baktrian reforms? After a few battles, now at every new turn, the message pops up that the Seleukids would forgive me, which I decline of course. But it just pops up again next turn. And I'm sure I've got 9 land battles won against them already :/ Does anyone have an idea what I'm doing wrong?
Or is there any way to see the counter of the script?
Edit: Checking the map with toggle_fow the Seleukids are actually close to be exterminated - will the Baktrian Reform trigger if the Seleukids go down?
AFAIK the script doesn't have a fallback if Seleucids die, but that's just from memory.
Did you capture settlements from them?
Yes, as of now I've captured around 4, I'd have to check to get the total number. Is the script for getting forgiveness supposed to run every turn now, though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
Why not?
You've captured them directly from seleukids, right? They hadn't rebelled, or been taken by someone else?
Otherwise, either you haven't won the 9 battles you thought you did, or the script is somehow broken for you. Other people did manage to get the reform.
Hmm, strange. Yes, I captured all of them from the Seleukids. I'll keep track now on how many battles I fight and if siege/land and then report back here if the script fires or not!Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
I didn't get the reforms anymore - after fighting another couple of land battles I agreed to the offer for forgiveness, left the fighting for one turn, and then next winter started to not pay my tribute again until war broke out. First thing after the war broke out was that the "Basileus offers forgiveness" script started again, and I declined, and it repeated again every turn. Still, I took another couple of cities from the Seleukids until Antiocheia and fought more than 10 land battles. I suppose this script "Basileus offers forgiveness" is somehow broken for me, it should show up just once and then not repeat again, no? I'm using b0Gias Submod Compilation too, but I guess this shouldn't affect the Baktria script. Thank you for your help though Simpelicity!
I'll try reinstalling everything and starting a new campaign, but I'd be glad for any tips for checking the scriptss progress!
So, I read that the Koinon reforms are not only complicated, but don't work?
I started a KH campaign. Me and Epeiros teamed up and destroyed Macedon. Took my attention to Crete, captured it. I need the second level of Polis to be able to recruit Cretan units. However, I can't seem to find the administration building required for it. I am guessing that building can't be built, thus preventing me to expand the polis and recruiting the Cretans, right?
I can circumvent it by installing an allied kingdom, where I can recruit some Cretans, so it's not a big deal atm...
Are you sure you can recruit cretans without the allied gov?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad
In any case, I assume you're talking about the government forms? And you somehow cannot build the second tier of your own gov? That has nothing to do with reforms, AFAIK there is a gov-form for every phase of it, including before it begins. Something else is blocking it, if you really can't build it.
Why would you want it to trigger only once? It's supposed to trigger every turn. It'd be silly to get only 1 chance at forgiveness. They'd still be willing to forgive you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyren
Any unofficial stuff can affect these scripts, one way or the other. However, I have a hard time imagining how it could break the independance event and not the forgiveness one, unless it went and played directly with these reform scripts.
@ Simple
I am pretty sure, although I haven't had the chance to test it, because Crete is not a big enough city atm. From my two previous conquests, I see that I have only two options that steem from Military occupation, and none of them has a higher level.
Nor are they the ones listed in the requirements for the level 2 Polis.
I will play when I get the chance and let you know. If someone did manage to get them, tell us.
Huh that's strange. It doesn't look to me like polis_2 is allowed for KH period. It gives them some stuff if they get it built, but there is the condition that a certain level or gov be present for every hellenistic faction. Except KH is not mentioned as far as I can tell. Unless I'm missing something, they simply can't build it. I haven't tried though, maybe I'm wrong.
If it's the same as Makedon, then it goes something like this (purely from a cursory experience with one campaign, don't take this for exact).Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
Top tier faction administration (allowing machairaphoroi and Cretan units, etc) pre-reqs are:
Largest Hellenistic polis -- which needs population, etc
Enfranchised military settlers -- this is 2nd to last in the list, so you need all others and all the prerequisites therein before "building' this.
Royal Supervisors (or was it Royal Advisors... something like this, and who knew that this is in the AGRICULTURE/FARMING building chain. Really unintuitive title/naming system that was hard to find.
You may also need a forum or better in the trade building chain, although oddly I found that I did not need this in Corinth, but I needed it in Pella and Demetrias.
It does, yes. Taken directly from export_descr_buildings :
Polis 2 requires a hellenistic faction, a market of minimally level 2, the absence of an eastern colony, a particular culture (greek..?) and a minimal level of government. Note how KH is not mentionned at any point for that last criteria. Unless I misunderstand how this works, that means KH can't have polis 2.Quote:
polis_two requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, } and building_present_min_level market market_two and not building_present_min_level colony_eastern eastcol_two and region_religion rel_h 49 and building_present_min_level govmakedonia makedonia5 or building_present_min_level govepeiros epeiros5 or building_present_min_level govseleukid seleukid3 or building_present_min_level govptolemaioi ptolemaioi5 or building_present_min_level govbaktria baktria3 or building_present_min_level govpergamon pergamon5 or building_present_min_level govbospor bospparadyn
Which means no Cretans for the faction that should have them the most. Allied democracy it is, then.
This might be a super easy fix then, if all the other parts are in place... it may simply be that they need to be added here. Have you tried adding "building_present_min_level govxx xx" where xx xx is whatever the correct phrasing is for Koinen Hellenon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
It is an easy fix, yes. I'm not messing with the scripting though, I'm just reading it.
Keep in mind that I do not have the latest version of the mod. I cannot upgrade due to having an ongoing Let's play (nor mess with it even if I wanted to, for that matter). I haven't seen anything relating to this issue in the patch notes though.
An omission on my part indeed. :(
Thanks for reporting this bug to be fixed by the next release. Keep up the good work in this thread! :thumbsup2
Well I've never had much to contribute to this project this whole time it's been developping. I try :)
Apologies for the thread necromancy.
My querie has to do with the Nabatean reforms.
How exactly are you supposed to construct "walls of a higher rank than 'wooden palisade'" in Rekem (Petra)?
In general, can you even construct walls in Camps? It doesn't seem like you can.
I did think of trying to destroy the "society" buildings to try and convert it to a settlement, but this doesn't seem possible as they are indestructible.
Likewise, I then considered that perhaps the "society" buildings are the "walls" (which seems to be the case), but both only seem to equate to "wooden palisade" and that there is no higher rank.
Do Camps at some point convert to settlements? How do you do this? Is there a point where camps allow you to build walls? When/how?
So, essentially, what I'm getting here is that the Nabatean reforms are currently impossible;
Am I correct?
Less importantly, are there actually any post-Reform units for the Nabatians in the mod yet?
If so, what are they like? If not, are there plans for any?
(The basic unit list for the Nabateans is pretty "light")
- BF
Get this to fix it:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyren
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...eallyBadAI-5-7
This might help:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastard Feudalism
PHP Code:;; Nabatu Reforms
;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
set_event_counter ecNabatu_Settled 0
set_event_counter ecNabatu_Imperial 0
declare_counter nabatu_tribal_allies
declare_counter petra_settled
declare_counter nabatu_settled_period
declare_counter nabatu_hel_poleis
declare_counter nabatu_trade_centers
;
monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType f_nabatu
if I_EventCounter ecNabatu_Settled = 0
set_counter nabatu_tribal_allies 0
end_if
if I_EventCounter ecNabatu_Settled = 1
and I_EventCounter ecNabatu_Imperial = 0
inc_counter nabatu_settled_period 1
set_counter nabatu_hel_poleis 0
set_counter nabatu_trade_centers 0
end_if
end_monitor
;
monitor_event SettlementTurnStart SettlementName sett_189 ;;; Rekem - Nabatu starting capital has to convert to city
and I_SettlementOwner sett_189 f_nabatu
and SettlementBuildingExists > wooden_pallisade
inc_counter petra_settled 1
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event SettlementTurnStart FactionType f_nabatu ;;; Count the extent of Nabatean tribal confederacy
and I_EventCounter ecNabatu_Imperial = 0
and I_EventCounter ecNabatu_Settled = 0
and SettlementBuildingExists > wooden_pallisade
and SettlementBuildingExists = nabatu_confed
inc_counter nabatu_tribal_allies 1
end_monitor
;
monitor_event SettlementTurnStart FactionType f_nabatu ;;; Count Hellenistic poleis administered by Nabatu
and I_EventCounter ecNabatu_Settled = 1
and SettlementBuildingExists >= polis_one
and SettlementBuildingExists = nabatu_admin
inc_counter nabatu_hel_poleis 1
end_monitor
;
monitor_event SettlementTurnStart FactionType f_nabatu ;;; Count large cities with fully developed markets controlled by Nabatu
and I_EventCounter ecNabatu_Settled = 1
and SettlementBuildingExists >= market_four
inc_counter nabatu_trade_centers 1
end_monitor
;
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType f_nabatu
and I_EventCounter ecNabatu_Settled = 0
and I_CompareCounter petra_settled = 1
and I_CompareCounter nabatu_tribal_allies > 2
and I_NumberOfSettlements f_nabatu > 4
set_event_counter ecNabatu_Settled 1
set_religion f_nabatu rel_d
historic_event HE_NABATU_SETTLED factions { f_nabatu, }
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType f_nabatu
and I_EventCounter ecNabatu_Settled = 1
and I_CompareCounter nabatu_settled_period > 40
and I_CompareCounter nabatu_hel_poleis > 2
and I_CompareCounter nabatu_trade_centers > 2
and I_NumberOfSettlements f_nabatu > 9
set_event_counter ecNabatu_Settled 0
set_event_counter ecNabatu_Imperial 1
set_religion f_nabatu rel_c
historic_event HE_NABATU_IMPERIAL factions { f_nabatu, }
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;
Thank you, b0Gia.
So, I guess my next question is, how do you convert a Camp to a City?
Taxation rates are not controllable in "camps". We used M2TW castles for this settlement class, and they don't allow manual change to taxation rates. Conversion to "city-style" settlements is eventually possible, so live with it until thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Bastard Feudalism
I doubt this necromancy is a problem, this thread was made to answer those questions :)
Updated OP with that info, but it would be great to have a few more details on how to make a city out of a settlement. Never done it myself.
To clarify, you're saying that to convert a camp (castle) to a city/town-style settlement is not yet possible in the mod?Quote:
Originally Posted by b0Gia
Or are you saying that it just happens over time in-game?
If not, I do have a suggestion: M2TW vanilla allows you to simply convert the castles to towns by building a "Convert to _" building.
I believe if the settlement was a advanced enough, though, you couldn't (like a fortress or large city), and you had to destroy the walls or castle down to a lower rank to convert it.
To clarify the camp-to-city conversion process:
In convertible camp type settlements one can build either HERDS or FARMS (or a combination of these two buildings, but that is not advisable if one aims at converting the region eventually because at higher levels these buildings become mutually exclusive). HERDS are typically nomadic building and best used in regions that are supposed to remain nomadic throughout the game. On the other hand the FARMS in nomadic regions slowly increase the "Eastern Tribal" culture in the region, thereby reducing the "Nomadic" one and allowing higher level of these FARMS to be built.
Once the settled culture level raises far enough and the highest level of farms is built (it may require to destroy the competing HERDS building) one can then build the usual M2TW camp-to-city conversion building.
Thank you!
Regarding the Pontic reforms.
Are you sure about the Pontic administration government types increasing EI culture?
The pontic administration starts default in the pontic capital. The ETS goes down and EI goes up but I assumed this was due to the fact there is a indigenous military settlement in the capital also. I have played for 120 turns now. The ETS is at 43%, EI is also at 43% and going up as other cultures go down.
In Ani-Kamah, I built a governor general and a military outpost. This settlement is acting the same as the capital. EI is going up and ETS is going down. But again, there is a military outpost. My other cities with a pontic government are not increasing in EI culture. They also don't have a military outpost.
I would argue that the three pontic government types (pontic administration, governor general and sacred estates) does nothing for culture conversion. I would also argue that the military outpost increases EI and the only way to increase EI before reaching the pontic reform is to build the indigenous military outposts.
Has anyone done a really close study of this?
It would be great if someone could check this over. I have not tested this thoroughly.
Cheers
Pontic government does increase EI (as does the native military colonies), but all those increases are capped. By reading the script one can see that:
Sacred Estates increase EI until 50%
Pontic Adm. (35)
Governor-General (35)
Satrapy (50)
Petty Kingdom (55)
Dynastic Adm. (60)
Other types of pontic governments don't increase culture.
Is there no script available for the Getai? Their win condition mentions something to that effect I presume from owning all the mountain/native region and building a massive temple to their god of gods at Samzghrfbhgdfhgdbhfgdfjg.
Was the person that was working on them just not finished with the faction?
If doing so does reform them, the script for it isn't with the scripting for other reforms.
It's probably never finished then, the faction is missing a lot of changes. It seems like most of the eastern and factions of africa got their reforms but the Celtic barbarians dont have any love. ;;
The only celts that got their reforms in time are the pritanoi.
Celts aren't the only unfinished business, far from it. The 4 successor kingdoms (Epirus, Makedon, Seleukia and Ptolemies) don't have any reforms either. Other factions as well.
I would presume the celts to all share similar developements, but yeah I guess it makes sense. The iberians wouldn't be able to share the advanced units of the Gaulish friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
I typically shy away from the big established kingdoms, so I will ask forgiveness on my ignorance there.
Haha, I only played Hayasdan and Boii for significant amounts.
I know who doesn't have a reform because I made a list of those who do :P
btw celts and successor kingdoms aren't the only unfinished business, everyone's favorite married couple isn't finished either (Rome and Carthage). Bosporos has nothing either, and I'm not sure the lugiones have something or not, it's a little vague.
Note that a lot of the missing reforms are missing because even if they were in it'd make 0 difference because the units they unlock aren't made.
Mhmm, looking at how far along some of the factions are its clear that a lot of the developement seemed to be pet projects. The brits, which are the celts that are most far along has a different style of text for their government, and advances of it. Though, Im not sure if they had a variety of tribes yet for their government. It's rather interesting the units they have completed. They have slingers, skirmishers, and then slinger-spearmen along with the tribal spearmen and then their upgraded units.
I had thought of over the past few days ways humerous ways to model the units still in developement for factions which have the mechanics to use them. The hoplites with the green pointy hats are the reformed hoplites! That way the battles aren't getting in the way of campaign development.
That's... actually an interesting proposition. What takes the most time to produce is units and more specifically half a dozen accurate skins for them. They could create generic units with just enough distinctiveness to differentiate them from other similar units, as placeholders really until their real units are done, and so start by focusing down the gameplay elements of the mod. And then, as people play the mod, they update it every now and then, with units, descriptions, etc, updating the history side of things.
I can confirm the Pontic reforms work as explained in this thread. Having all the necessary cities, save one, and assuming I'd met the other requirements in battles long ago, I waited to see what would happen after my end turn on capturing the last city listed here: Chersonesos. And voila!
[Do not open if you wish the Pontic reform message to remain unknown to you]
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Great list. ON a related note, I'm confused about how to build the top tier Pontic Basileus building (Dynastic Administration). I have access to Satrap government buildings now (after those reforms triggered) in two locations, including my capital. Obviously I'm not going to make my capital province a satrapy so I looked for what requirement remained for the final government building option to appear -- the only requirement listed in game is 35% Eastern Imperial culture -- which I have!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingvarr1
So there must be another requirement not shown. Is there a population or city wall size requirement ?
;Basilike Patris (Dynastic Administration)
pontos7 city requires factions { f_pontos, } and not building_present govallied and region_religion rel_c 30 and event_counter ecPontos_Imperial 1
{
capability ;;; Recruitment pool: up to 12 * 0.04 from colony buildings, 13 * 0.04 factional troops here
{
recruit_pool "hellenistic chariot scythed" 1 0.08 2 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern cavalry khuveshavagan" 1 0.08 2 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern cavalry cappadoccian" 1 0.08 2 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern cavalry asitaikoi hippakontistai" 1 0.04 1 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry peltastai logades" 1 0.12 3 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern infantry cappadoccian tribesmen" 1 0.08 2 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern infantry doryphoroi pontikoi" 1 0.08 2 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern infantry slinger" 1 0.04 1 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
law_bonus bonus 2 requires factions { f_pontos, }
farming_level bonus 2
religion_level bonus 1 requires factions { f_pontos, } and not region_religion rel_c 60 and event_counter ecReligionUpdate 1
agent diplomat 1 requires factions { f_pontos, }
agent_limit diplomat 1
recruitment_slots 4 requires factions { f_pontos, }
}
material stone
construction 16
cost 16000
settlement_min city
upgrades
settlement_min city? Would that be your problem? That's level 4 (village -> town -> large town -> city)
That's what I was thinking, even though that requirement isn't listed in-game. However now that you mention it, I do have a city, even one bigger, the "large city" it seems. Just not the biggest walls to go with, and they are not a building option (yet).Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...pontoscity.jpg
Perhaps one must have the massive walls built?
Sorry, it is my fault. Pontic administration does nor upgrade to Dynastic administration directly. The Statrapy is a required intermediate step so best solution for you would be to be suspend your disbelief for a while, upgrade to satrapy and immediately afterwards to the top level. Sorry and thank you for pointing out this problem - it will be fixed next time. :paperbag:
Aha! No worries, thanks for clearing it up (suspension of disbelief engaged!). I'm glad to see most of it working pretty well afterall. Once we know what's happening here and what steps to take to try and achieve an imperial reform, the gameplay deepens quite a bit. I'll let you know how it turns out.Quote:
Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin
Update: As you said, once the Satrapy was established the Dynastic Administration became available. I now have one in the capital (with another possible in Trapezia). However, the mechanic seems to be working (better/as intended?) in another province. Gazaka, once captured from Hayasdan, showed both options at once, without having the satrapy as a pre-requisite.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
You can see several government options here, including both the satrapy and dynastic building (first two, unfinished images).
I should note that there was an irregularity in which I was building a governor general in Gazaka, when the reforms were triggered. It took me a few turns (lots of things going on) to notice, but the Governor General gov building was halted at 2 turns left to build -- as soon as the reforms triggered it stopped construction. I can only assume this government type is no longer available. Once I removed it from the queue, I saw the options shown above.
I've since established Sacred Estates there, and now only the dynastic administration shows as a possible next step, with satrapy removed.
seleucid new soldier of reform cataphracts is there.How can ı do?
who will answer this question