Printable View
It should unlock the Basilike Patris (pergamon7) government building. Which might not seem like much, but it opens up the full building tree. However, you haven't triggered it until you've had the third message declaring you a kingdom. You need three of those notifications to trigger it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jervaj
No new units, Pergamon enjoys the same military reforms as all the other Hellenistic factions, rather than a separate system of their own.
I'll see if I can test the Pergamon reform out later today. It sounds like the reform triggered properly. It may just be that the additional units have not yet been added.
Did the reform trigger give you any new government types to build? Sometimes the new units are contained in new building options.
Umm, so they lack any kind of heavy cavalry apart from generals. I thought it will come with the higher buildings.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius
What does then the different eras change then?
There are no new units unless you build the highest-tier government. That's the only impact of the reform, to unlock the pergamon7.Quote:
Originally Posted by adun12345
Sorry, I'm forgetting Hetairoi are unlocked by pergamon7, so yes, there is a new unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jervaj
The eras do nothing at all; it's been superceded by the Hellenistic Military Reforms for all Hellenistic factions.
Yay heitaroi. Just what their roster lacked haha.
And that is planned to change (the eras) or will the hellenistic military reforms be kept in the autnm release format?
About the reform, for some reason theres something Im doing wrong. I only got the message I said and I ahd already defeated two gallatian armies meeting the requirements. And know I defeated two big seleucid armies last turn and still no new message. I had a FM leading the army and had 1600 and 1061 troops in each battle. And they were 3/4 of a stack both times.
To the OP. Under the KH reform, you have Chalkis listed as a city you can get a leader for. I believe that city was in EB but not EB2(minor settlement). Is there a leader trait for this fictional city? I'm also not recognizing the names Mytilene and Kydonia, are they in the same boat as Chalkis?
Haha I'm not the only one able to answer that question, no need to address it to me ^.^Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummer
I did not confuse the settlements with EB1. I ripped all that info from the codes of EBII. I don't have the time to double-check how exactly I did it, but I'm pretty sure I just searched for the info of what cities you can be a leader of and then copied all of them here. Best guess is you can be leader of cities that are not settlements. It's tied to ethnicity after all, not settlements you own. I copied them and called them settlements without realising some of them weren't settlements.
iirc, isn't Kydonia across the Mediterranean? Not sure if it's still a settlement, but I think it's there, in the east horn of Africa. I recognise Mytilene as a name as well, but can't place it off the top of my head. An island I think. Either that or Anatolia, but I think it's the isles. Maybe Krete?
Kydonia is on Krete - it's been replaced with Knossos.
Chalkis no longer exists as a full settlement, it's the minor settlement on the island to the east of Athenai. Mytilene is also no longer a settlement - it's been replaced by Ephesos.
so if I get this straight, Chalkis is no longer a possible leader, and I should replace Kydonia and Mytilene with Ephesos and Knossos?
Yes. I'd have to go back and check what, if anything, Chalkis has been replaced with in the script.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
Ok, I have been thinking it through and I have found two possible reasons I may not be getting the reform with pergamon.
One is that the battles dont start to count until you have the provinced need because I defeated the galatian armies prior to the conquest of Ankyra.
Second possibility is that the galatians armies where in my territory so they may have not counted due to the battle not taking palce in galatia.
Still there is the mystery why only one of the 3 battles against the seleucids counted for the reform. Does the count only happen if the battles take place during the players turn?
What are you talking about. You get a message now every time you win a major battle that's "legit" for the reform. Just starting the game, take Sardis and then defeat the spawned stack of Alexandros, and you'll get such a message saying "Seleucids defeated!". Or march into Galatia and fight the large stack there, you'll be sent a message saying "Galatians defeated!". Three messages + owning proper cities = you're eligible for reform.
Basically, assaulting Ankyra = no message = no point. Fighting outside of Galatia vs Eleutheroi = no message = no point. Fighting AS anywhere = message = point. Fighting Eleutheroi in Galatia but not those inside Ankyra = message = point.
("Fighting" defined as a battle with a large stack vs a large stack as stated in the OP.)
Ah, I checked the script again; it's not just the battles. They're part of it, but you also need to own Nikaia, Pergamon, Sardis, Ipsos and Galatia.
The problem is precisely that I defeated 3 AS stacks between 1600 and 2000 troops each and I only got one message.Quote:
Originally Posted by delra
And also that in my campaign is problematic. Galatia is already clean and I dont border the seleucids at all. they were swiftly driven back by Hayasdan and Ptolemaics so to get the battles I had to cross 3 hayasdan provinces. I will prepare another expedition soon to try again
I have aall thsoe long ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by [URL="http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?36289-QuintusSertorius"
Maybe your army was too small?
Funny that you still need to "colonize" Pergamon itself in order to upgrade the government to the kingdom there. Another thing is, 21 settlements size is quite steep for this reform. It's like all of Asia Minor and Greece, so you don't get reformed until after you've already beaten everyone already. Maybe we could lower that a bit?
It's not 21 settlements for the reform, that's for the redundant Late Era. You need those five I listed above for the Kingship reform.Quote:
Originally Posted by delra
I kept track of it and in the last battle during the expedition (obviously the one with the smallest numbers) was 1061 units.
In theory over 1000 is ok. Even if it were 1500 like for galatians the second battle should have gotten message as it was over 1600 troops there.
The settlements number is for eras that for now seem to have 0 effect accoridng to what Quintus said.
The good thing for Pergamon is that in asia minor theres already a lot of colonies, together with you having metropolis from the start and another bordering, so settlements are in general easy to hellenize except Gallatia and the one from Pontus that take a while due to the low starting levels.
The number of troops is your army, not the enemy. For both Seleukids and Galatians, the requirement is 11 or more units.
I'm going to lower it to 1000 for both - for the Galatian monitor it's currently 1500. You also have to defeat the Galatian army in Galatia.
Those I posted were the numbers of my army indeed.
The enemies were always 3/4 of stack so no problem of units there.
The gallatian thing is clear because I fighted those stacks outside of galatia when they came in to Ipsos to atack me.
The problem is the seleuicd thing. Seen everything is correct Im starting to believe more that it had to do with not been the players turn. As those two atacked my army, not the opposite.
Possibly, I'm not entirely sure how the conditions work:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jervaj
I suspect the FactionType condition means it has to be on that faction's turn.Code:monitor_event PostBattle FactionType f_pergamon
When in doubt, you can always teleport some rebels from Germania to Ankyra and defeat these to score points.
I am pretty sure it doesn't matter whether it's on the Seleucid or the player's turn... but not 100% sure. I could swear I got points defending from AS all the same as when attacking them.
Sounds like y'all are having a grand ol' discussion in here ^.^
I've changed Koinon Hellenon to indicate the correct Archon-able settlements. Gimme a holler if this discussion leads to any breakthroughs ;)
On a side note, I wouldn't think FactionType means it has to be that faction's turn. It says Type, not Turn.
Doesn`t the pergamon reform have to be 80 turns as well as the battles/cities? or is that redundant now also?
No, that's not the Kingship reform, that's the Era reform, which does nothing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribtickler
So both turn dates are obsolete now? its just that it mentions 80 turns in the descr file under reforms.i remember the other being 160 turns(I think).Quote:
Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius
Nah, moving eleuthoroi armies to gallatia doesnt work because they are not gallatians. I tried but without success.
Well anyway 2.04 is here. I hope I have more luck in that one. Thaks for the help anyway.
By the way o na side ntoe about the change, 1000 soldiers isnt hard to reach at all unless you play normal I think. In large (the one I use) most infantry units are already arround a hundred soldiers and phalanghitai are 181 so half stack is ussually enough. So it may be a nice number.
They were always obsolete, nothing was ever attached to them. Those first four monitors in the script don't do anything. They were going to be associated with unit changes for Pergamon, but that was superceded by a wider Hellenistic Military Reform for all Hellenistic factions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribtickler
The conditions of the Pergamon Kingship Reform, as of 2.04 are:
Win three major battles (defined as your army being at least 1000 men and the enemy at least 11 units) against the Seleukids (anywhere) and/or the Galatians (in Galatia).
Hold Pergamon, Ipsos, Sardis, Nikaia and Ankyra.
What are the middle and high kingdom reforms for, then? What do they give?
Nothing at all. They are entirely redundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by delra
Once upon a time, they were supposed to control what units Pergamon got access to.
That was never implemented, and now all Hellenistic factions get theirs via the same reform.
I think Pontos should not have have requirement for reforms to get to Crimea..Historically they did, but why it should be requirement?!...After they acquire enough lands around (and let say certain number of Hellenistic provinces) they will have big enough state to claim kingdom and reforms...
Edit them out of the OP? :-DQuote:
Nothing at all. They are entirely redundant.
Once upon a time, they were supposed to control what units Pergamon got access to.
That was never implemented, and now all Hellenistic factions get theirs via the same reform.
Also, am I the only one who thinks that classical Greek units are way better in the battle map than reformed ones?
Well, I have been wondering about that too. In theory both new ones should be better ccomapred to hoplites. They lose 1/2 points of armor but get more shield, more defence skill, javelins, more mobility and more stamina. One of the new ones has swords that is better agianst infantry so you have more versatility.
In the other hand they have less morale, training and discipline. I think even less mass (not sure though). This makes them easier to rout and more spread formations ussually perform worse in combat and get pushed more easily.
I forgot, campaign wise hoplites have free upkeep while the others do not. That makes the former a lot more interesting for garrisons speccially having in account the performance differences arent that great and that hoplites are better in choke points due to compact formations.
Euzonoi is a clear improve though. Better morale, damage and defences while keeping free upkeep. Using them is a no brainer. Once the reform triggers they are your skirmishers.
Thureophoroi are not the replacement for Hoplitai, not really. They're the in-between unit bridging the space between hoplite and skirmisher. The Hoplitai's reformed equivalent is the Thorakitai, which we don't have yet.
Euzonoi are actually a picked elite from the Akontistai, so if you're fielding a credible, rather than optimal army, you shouldn't really take more than one unit of Euzonoi, and for any other javelineers, Akontistai.
I thought euzonoi better quality was mostly due to better equipment. And maybe a bit more training. Been represented as quite cheap seems strange not to use several units of them.
Actually I barelly use Akontistai but at the very start of a campaign. Not that much impact and so easy to rout.
Actually I think is part of my nature. I ussually have problems to keep realistic due to my somewhat aversion to leves. They just dont seem that cost-effective to me.
Its strange because in the east Im fine with locals, they seem effective and I enjoy using them. But in the west I use my initial armies but I hardly ever recruit akonkistai, toxotai, or hippakonkistai. Until the thureos reform the cheaper units I ussually use are hoplitai and toxotai kretikoi filling the rest with logades/peltastai and epikiletoi/phalangitai depending on faction. And for cavalry hippeis or xistophoroi.
Maybe the refresh rates are too high xD
The best skirmishers are slingers. Check the numbers of kills after each battle and you'll see your Kretans aren't inflicting even half of the casualties that your slingers are... Slingers have good range, they have AP, they are cheap as hell, and when you route enemy army, you want that sort of quick unit to chase them down.
I generally avoid using javelin-throwing units as their animation pisses me off (they run forward to throw, then don't come back to formation, so I have to keep reforming and repositioning them so they don't mess my line). You can have a couple of Logades/Peltasts on each flank with the idea of using them as if they were Hastati with an extra throw... but for the bulk of ranged kills you should look towards slingers. You can use the mass of Akontistai to confuse and tie down battle AI, but that's cheap and lame exploit.
Try the following test in Custom battle (don't move units, one line, no skirmish, autofire):
1. 5x standard slingers vs 1x Carth Dorks.
2. 5x kretans vs 1x Carth Dorks.
3. 5x standard archers vs 1x Carth Dorks.
4. 3x standard archers + 3x standard slingers vs 1x Carth Dorks.
5. 5x logades vs 1x Carth Dorks.
6. 5x akontistai vs 1x Carth Dorks.
7. 5x Euzonoi vs 1x Carth Dorks.
8. 5x Equites Sabelli (jav cav) vs 1x Carth Dorks.
You will notice the following:
- Standard archers and Kretans = no difference at all in performance here. Both kill at the same rate. Accuracy, morale, defence are all lol stats that don't matter provided you don't allow your archers into melee.
- Slingers kill faster than archers. Side by side (3+3vs1) comparison shows 2-3x more kills from slingers than from archers.
- Logades are able to kill a couple dozen enemies with their javelins before the lines meet, then they are forced into melee. Even 5 to 1 they fail to obliterate the charging enemy.
- Akontistai are actually better than Logades (2x more javelins thrown) but still waaaay worse than slingers or archers.
- Not much difference between Euzonoi and Akontistai, at least none that I can see.
- Javelin cavalry sucketh.
- Dorks are way softer than you think. :-D
In summary:
- Don't get crazy over javelins, treat Logades and similar units as if they were Hastati.
- Don't overpay for Kretans, buy regular slingers and archers instead.
- The best ranged units for Pergamon aren't fancy Kretans or fancy Logades but Sphendonetai, their upkeep = 41. :-D
Slinger are not AP anymore but they do have good atack.
The good thing about Kretans is not that they kill a lot more than the others (thought better than toxotai) but that they have better shield and armour what means they ussually win in ranged exchanges. Together with nice atack and morale once out of arrows they can support the front line effectivelly where you most need it. The psiloi are basically useless once out of ammo. You can just entertain enemy units for some time.
I dont know why you assume that you wont allow kretes into mellee when thats what they are made for.
I dont use Logades or peltastai as an skirmisher. I dont even know if theres even possible to use them like that. They have low ammon and charge after launching their javelins. They are my versatile infatry. They cover holes in the line, cover the flanks of hoplites, phalanxes, emergency block for enemy cavalry that was able to pass my line, etc
Slingers have higher atack than archers so theres no need to test to know they will inflict more casualities. Though direct fire is sometimes problematic and can cause notably more casualities to your own troops than the others.
Javelinners are the most damaging ones due to numbers and projectile type. Speccially against big targets like cavalry they seem the best. Their problem is their short range but my experience has shown that a well placed volley can be devastating.
Euzonoi can even go to melee and do something too. And they are still rather cheap.
Dont misunderstand me I do use sphendotai, is just pergamon has quite easy acces to kretans opposed to others and I just prefer those.
I dont udnerstand why sphendotai are so absurdly cheap. They should be more equal o the other psiloi.
A lot of misconceptions about skirmishers here. The primary purpose of skirmishers is to tie up the enemy's skirmishers, not to take down line infantry. If your skirmishers are targeting armoured and/or shielded units, you're wasting their ammunition. That none of them are terribly effective against such targets (especially from the front) is by design.
Psiloi aren't supposed to be effective melee combatants - they're barely-trained levies with no armour and often no better weapon than a knife. That's the reason they're so cheap. Slingers are even cheaper because their units are smaller than other levies.
Kretan archers have a pretty significant advantage over regular Toxotai: their range is quite a bit longer. They're also much more useful when out of ammo, since they're effective in melee.
The most effective place for a javelin volley is from behind a unit. They're not supposed to be able to stop a charge of line infantry, and certainly aren't intended to wipe them out either. If you're throwing them at a unit coming towards you, that's the very worst place to be doing it from, so it's hardly surprising that it's ineffective. The animation is realistic, you need the momentum of a run-up to impart a poweful throw.
Javelin cavalry was broken in 2.03k because of the adjustment to the skirmishing distance to accomodate horse archers. Unfortunately, CA only provided one value for all skirmish cavalry, what's a nice distance to ensure horse archers can stay beyond the range of a charge is too far for javelineers to be able to throw. In 2.04 that's been reduced; but it will mean horse archers are more likely to get caught off-guard.
There's an intentional balance between javelins and arrows/slingshot. You have to get closer, but they're more damaging. Again you have to be in the right place, and preferably not against line infantry.
There also seem to be misconceptions about the purpose of this thread...
Confirmation that the early-mid-late eras of Pergamon have been scrapped, before I scrap it off the OP?
Well, QS confirmed it just above. So you can scrap the thing.
Pergamon gets two reforms: 1. Fighting AS/Galatia. 2. Thureos reform like all other Greeks.
Middle/high kingdom should be removed and replaced with a mention of the generic Greek/Thureos reforms.
Correct. If we come up with something new to do with Pergamon's Era-reforms, then I'll let you all know. But for the time being, remove reference to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by delra
Agreed. I was going to same similar but felt like I had to answer him xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
God forbid we went off-topic on a forum where a total of like 5 people are active. We'd never recover from the confusion. :-D
Change made.
Well if you bury the changes I'm supposed to make with stuff I barely pay attention to, you're making it unlikely the changes are gonna happen. That is all.
Glad we cleared up Pergamon once and for all. So it actually works, and while at that in a way that's clear to everyone. Any other reforms that need clearing up ATM?
For example, for Aedui & Aruernoi you have this:
Quote:
There's some script here, but I have no clue what purpose it serves.
The text I put there doesn't convey that it needs clearing up enough? :P
Most factions would need to be reviewed, there've been a few too many patches and I haven't been keeping up with the changes.
Why can't we just get a message at the beginning of the campaign saying: "Do this, this and this to take the next step in the reforms for your factions"... :-(
mmmmmwell it could be in the description of the faction I suppose. In a more vague way of course. Just describing what you should be aiming for during your campaign.
Saba reform happens when these conditions are met:
1.) Saba capital has under 30% of faction culture
2.) The capital has either Adim malkan (Bondsmen of the king) or Mahrab Malkan (Royal Court) government building
3.) A character is in the capital at the end of the turn
- The most likely (and easiest) scenario is that the reform takes place in Maryab, where is Mahrab Malkan building from the beginning, when the eastern tribal states culture drops under 30%
- If you lose or change your capital, then you'll have to build Adim malkan building in your capital (can't build Mahrab Malkan before the reforms). It can only be built in Arabia and Ethiopia (hidden resource arabian or ethiopia).
I'm quite sure about this, but it's always good to to have confirmation.
Well, in a rare occurence both time and interest have coincided. I'm patching to 2.4 to check it out later. Assuming I still have time later. At least it'll be patched for the next time I have time and am motivated. So yeah I'll double-check Samson, thx for telling me though :)
Okay I started reading the campaign script and comparing with OP, and right in the first script (Rome), you have these couple lines :
monitor_event PostBattle FactionType f_rome
and TargetFactionType f_carthage
Does "FactionType" mean it has to be this faction's turn? Maybe, maybe not. This script makes it look like it. But it's not definitive either. It's just that if "FactionType" could detect the other guy as well as the guy who's turn it is, then why use "TargetFactionType" instead of "FactionType" again?
I have verified the script for Rome, Baktria and Pontos. Baktria needed some corrections (that punitive expedition is new, and the tribute seems to have increased), otherwise I'm just adding the fact that it probably needs to be your turn, and against family members, for the battles to count.
I will continue later if interest and time coincide again. Provided the game isn't patched some more by then. Y'all feel free to continue checking other factions though ^.^
There's some inconsequence in the Pritanoi reform.
1. (Among other things) You need three level 3 temples to reform.
2. In order to build them, you need to upgrade your government to level three.
3. To upgrade the government, you first need to build a market level three.
4. For the reform itself, only two markets level three are required.
You'll basically always have more markets than needed for the reform, because you need them to upgrade the government and then the temple. The market requirement is redundant here, it has to be met in order for other requirements to be met. If you have temples at that level, it means you also have the same amount of markets of that level. You can as well drop the Market Requirement from the script, or change it to another building (waystations+garrisons for example).
It takes quite some time to accomplish, as you need three of your cities to triple in size (to 6k) before you can go on the lengthy route of upgrading the market, then the government, then the temple there. It takes 120 turns for the growth itself, then two dozen turns to get all the buildings in line. I did it on turn 148. I think it could maybe be done a little faster, but not by much. The timing seems just fine to me.
The kingdom government is absolute crap compared to the previous government:
- 1/4 of old government's happiness.
- NO free upkeep slots at all.
Basically, in terms of the government form, you're heavily downgrading rather than reforming. I think Prit Kingdom needs to be buffed quite a bit.
Other than that, the reforms work fine and as described in the OP.
There is a Pritanoi Kingdom Emerges notification and it does work.Quote:
There is no grand notification yet you will see it in the building options.
I am not changing the OP for that, unless they change the script. But that's a good observation.
Something else : some "Germanic Reforms" were added, they work for both Lugia and Sweboz, simultaneously. Now then, descr_events doesn't advance the SwebozEra anymore, so that's fine (even though the text saying that that's where it's advanced is still in the Reforms section of campaign-script). The previous lugian script is still there though, but they don't increase the same eventcounter. One increases LugiaEra, and the new Germanic reforms increase LugianEra. So, what's going on with the german eras?
So that there could be an announcement attached to them (rather than silently happening without any notification for the player), I moved the ecSwebozEra and exLugianEra (note the "n" in the second one) counters to the campaign script. They're still randomly occurring between two dates.
These are the triggers for the late unit roster for Sweboz and Lugiones.
I did note the "n", that's why I said they don't increase the same counter. What does the lugian-specific script increase then?
So, no word yet on what the Aedui/Auernoi reform requirements are? Couldn't one of the devs just tell us?
Not one of the devs, but I remembered these posts from quite some time ago. Warning: what follows could very well be outdated. Also, to prevent disappointment: this is no full answer of how any potential Celtic reform should be triggered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogie Knight
Source 1
Source 2 (Scroll down to the interview of Brennus)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
To answer the more immediate question : there are no celtic reforms yet.
I'm having some problem with the Koinon Hellenon reforms. I got three metropoli quite easily. I started with Athens, conquered Corinth, and upgrade Rhodos to a metropolis. I didn't have a problem building the congress: I built it in Rhodos, got the Congress event. I upgraded four cities to the KH4 government (and then, later, more cities to the KH4 government). Got the event telling me to gather my Archons. I did, in Rhodos, the city where the Congress was built. Then... nothing.
I have four Archons from different cities there. And when that didn't work after 20 turns, I added a fifth FM with two archon titles. So that's 5 FMs and six archon titles. It's been another 25 turns with them in Rhodos... nothing. Here are my guesses where I went wrong:
They have to be in a particular city that's not Rhodos. Corinth?
They have to be in my capital (currently Corinth).
Rhodos, where the archons are, needs the KH4 government. (I left it at Congress, assuming that mattered somehow.)
Can anyone confirm one of the above?
Doesn't matter where the Congress is, the Archons have to go to Korinthos to trigger the next stage of the reforms.
Thank you. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius
Roman reforms get screwed up easily:
1. They have to defeat (attack) four large Eleutheroi stacks in Cisalpine Gaul.
2. Assaulting cities doesn't count.
3. Starting rebel stacks of Cisalpine Gaul tend to wander into Roman land and attack Arretium. Defeating them there doesn't count.
Player quickly runs out of large rebel stacks in Cisalpine Gaul, and the reform is delayed 150 turns if he doesn't secure four big victories before rebels there are gone.
My suggestion: Change the requirement here to EITHER won 4 battles or OWNS 4 of the settlements in the region.
Also, it'd be nice to copy Pergamon's after-battle events and tell the Roman player that he's secured a victory necessary for the reform.
You have to add the problem of getai taking over the zone before you do if you focus south xD
Still, I never saw the rebel stacks trespassing and atacking anything. Just brigands spawned already in the territory. But maybe I just havent played enough. I only tried romans 2-3 times
Just start with Romans at H or higher and wait a few turns. Ariminum is guaranteed to be attacked.Quote:
Still, I never saw the rebel stacks trespassing and atacking anything.
I always play H. And I had campaign over 100 turns with them and the only rebels that atacked my cities were spawned brigands.
It may have changed with the new patch though.
No idea how you missed that attack then. I always prepare for it... First defeat these Gauls, then Taras, then take Lilibeo and Sardinia/Corsica from Carthage. Then Sicily and Rhegion. Then Cisalpine Gaul and Marseille/Illyria...
I ussually take Taras, Rhegion and get rid of the stacks once I have the resources to spare and Im tired of the devastation. They never atacked Arretium in my plays.
A quick rewrite for KH, to make it clearer:
Two bugs I notice:Quote:
Steps to reform your government as Koinon Hellenon:
Step I
You must control three Hellenistic Metropolis buildings.
At the beginning of the game, the following cities have this building: Athens, Korinthos, Syracuse, Ephesos, Alexandria and Pergamon. Antioch may or may not have it depending on version and developer decision. You can later upgrade other cities to that level, but it's much quicker and easier to conquer additional two cities from the above list, while not losing your starting capital.
Step II
Build the Congress building in any of your cities. It becomes available once you've completed Step I. I suggest building it in Korinthos, but it's not required to be there. You'll get an event message once you've built it.
Step III
You need to upgrade to four Symmachikon Koinon (Allied League) government buildings in four of your cities. It's a building that takes 8 turns to build and its icon is a little orange horse. It becomes available after you've built the Congress.
Step IV
Gather four Archons in Korinthos and have them stay there for a full year (4 turns). Not the city where you've built the Congress but specifically in Korinthos. You'll get an event message once you complete this step.
1. You start with archons of Sparta and Athens. Send them to Korinthos right away, once you've secured the city.
2. You start owning Rhodos with the right government type and have two influential Rhodian characters, one of whom will become an archon soon enough. Whoever becomes the archon, send him to Korinthos (that's 3 out of 4 archons ready).
3. You need to conquer another city where an archon can be named (one of Ambrakia, Thermon, Pella, Demetrias, Korinthos, Knossos, Salamis or Ephesos), build the right government type there ("Polis en Symmachia kai Philia (Allied City State)", it is the government type of your starting cities) and adopt into the family a character from their nationality. Make sure he has at least 1 influence and wait.
4. For example, conquer Knossos, build the same government building there as the one you start with in Athens (or higher), adopt a family member with at least 1 influence and "Kres" nationality and wait a couple turns. He'll become your fourth archon. If you aren't offered the right guy for adoption, try fighting rebel stacks with armies led by captains, if they win, you may adopt them into your family tree, maybe one of them will have the right nationality. If his influence is too low, just let him lead armies in combat, he'll get some influence quickly from that.
5. It is possible some other random guy will become an archon even though he should not. It's also possible that one guy will have multiple archonates. It'll will work if you put such a guy into Korinthos with "legit" archons, even though he got his trait in a buggy way.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
STEP V
Simpoliteia revolt. Start building Simpoliteia government that's just become available in two of your cities. Once they complete building (takes 16 turns), your reform will be completed. You'll get an event message when you begin and end this step.
STEP VI
You are finally reformed and can build Simpoliteia everywhere else.
1. Archon still gets awarded to a random guy, who isn't of the required nationality and who is often an archon of something else.
2. Simpoliteia sometimes becomes available in various cities even though the first two Simoliteias haven't completed yet.
Other than that, all working fine.
The text is great. Two small notes though.
Ephesus has a metropolis too.
Syracusa is easier to conquer but more difficult to control early on. Apart of not been easy to move troops theres it ussually ends atacked by either Roman, Kart-Hadast or both. Been at war with them early on is usually not great.
Still been one of the few cities where you can have your best goverment you will want it sooner or later.
A quick question, what was the culture limit for the KH goverment conversion?
I don't know what the limit is, it works all over Greece. KH has messed up colonization anyway, can't build a polis even on Krete. Colonization is the main thing that makes Pergamon into the best Greek faction, really. ;-\
Yep, though the addition of Ephesos is new. Antiocheia now also has a polis_three, though that might change back to polis_two again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jervaj
The limit for KH government buildings conversion is 50%.
It's not "messed up" for KH, their days of colonisation are passed. It is a deliberate design choice that they cannot found new polis or colonies, though they can use both. You're supposed to unite the existing polis' as KH, not start up new ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by delra
fair enought. can you at least give krete already a lvl 1 polisQuote:
Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius
It does already have one - why do you think KH is able to recruit anything from there at all? And is trivially easy to upgrade - KH can still upgrade polis buildings that are already there, as any Hellenistic faction can. Not only that, unlike any other faction, they have a conversion bonus simply for having their government building in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by clone
List of all polis buildings from descr_strat with their level:Quote:
You're supposed to unite the existing polis' as KH
So basically: No Ipsos, Nikaia, Tarsos here. No Trapezous or Emporion, to name a few most notable Greek colonies that aren't here on the list. Histria and Olbia aren't for KH either. Nor is Alalia, that'd link Massalia and Syracuse at least a little. No way of building a polis there at all, ever. :-( 1/3 Greek culture city like Side gets a polis, while 50% Greek Nikaia does not ever get one.Quote:
Macedonia: Pella 2, Demetrias 2, Korinthos 3
Epeiros: Ambrakia 2, Taras 2, Epidamnos 1
Koinon: Athens 3, Sparte 2, Rhodos 2
Seleucids: Seleukeia 1, Sardis 1, Antioch 3, Edessa 1
Ptolemies: Alexandria 3, Ephesos 3, Halikarnassos 2, Side 1, Salamis 1, Memphis 1
Baktria: Baktria 2
Pergamon: Pergamon 3
Bosporans: Pantikapaion 2
Rebel: Massalia 1, Rhegion 1, Messana 1, Syracuse 3, Thermon 2, Knossos 1, Byzantion 1, Sinope 1, Chersonesos 1, Kyrene 1
What you say would make for a nice campaign, but then you hit this invisible wall of certain cities not having a polis nor a chance for a polis and that just leads to a quit. It's just frustrating when you have your own definition of the "Greek" world for unification as KH, but the game's buildings don't fit with it. :-(
So the only reason to play a KH campaign is to upgrade polis buildings?Quote:
Originally Posted by delra
Placement of polis buildings is neither random nor haphazard. It's not simply about the level of "Greek-ness" in a region, but also about the forms of government, cultural norms and so on. I discovered this with a submod a while back, the only one that had been missed was Syrakousai. Sorry, but your definition of "the Greek world" is simply wrong, insofar as places where a very particular form of community organisation was still relevant. Which is what the polis represents.
Not only that, but while it's unpredictable, the AI can build them without having to worry about colonists (because the condition is always on for them). So if you take your time, you may find that the AI factions have built some new ones in suitable places.
I should finally note, if you don't like it, it's a trivially easy edit of the descr_strat. Get yourself Notepad++ (do not try this with Notepad). Find the settlement you want. Paste this in there:
Save, delete your map.rwm, start a new campaign.Code:building
{
type hinterland_hellenistic_polis polis_one
}
Erm. But your mod does exactly what I suggest. You have added a polis in Nikaia, Olbia, Trapezous... Basically, you agree with me and disagree with the faction's historian. :-DQuote:
Sorry, but your definition of "the Greek world" is simply wrong
My outdated submod, which isn't even compatible with anything post-2.01.Quote:
Originally Posted by delra
When running a test to make sure reform requirements work as intended, does it matter if I play on Easy/Easy? Pontus is giving me a headache.
You can just auto_win everything....
i was worried that would effect the reform because I didn't know if that would count as a "win"Quote:
Originally Posted by delra
It does count, as long as you initiate the battle. Easy to test with Pergamon.
I dont mind the not colonisation think. Its true that it suits them, and it makes you really aim for the union of the greek world.
However that limit of 50% umm, having not other option because difficult to finish the hellenisation of that big amount of cities that start arround those values. Maybe they could be given an extra coversion at a slower rate from there on?
Been the true hellens I really enjoy hellenizing the world with them xD
It's deliberate design; it means upgrading any polis_one in an area that is only just at the 30% (eg Massalia) is do-able. But that upgrading a polis_two to polis_three will take more time. Or be somewhere already within Hellas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jervaj
can i ask something . if kh captures o totally non greek settlement what are the options. only allied goverment?
sorry if the question is already answered
If it has a level of Hellenistic Polities of less than 25%, then yes Allied Government is the only option. If it's at least 25% though, then you can build a Native Administration, which in Illyria and Anatolia will give a native pool.Quote:
Originally Posted by clone
only in illyria and anatolia you can build native administration? what if you capturte a settlement in gaulQuote:
Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius
Allied Government.Quote:
Originally Posted by clone
More time we are talking of over 200 turns here :laughter:Quote:
Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius
Thats why I said adding a slower evrsion of the bonus maybe. But its ok, they play well everyone due to been sorrounded of the most hellenic settlements to form a solid core.
I can also confirm the Pritanoi reform works. However, I noticed something odd. It says you need to construct 2 level 3 markets, and 3 level 3 temples. Here's the problem. To build a level 3 temple, one must build/unlock the 2nd level of government. To build/unlock the 2nd level of government, one must build a level 3 market. So to build 3 level 3 temples, one must build at least 3 level 3 markets. This makes the requirement to build 2 level 3 markets redundant because you inherently have to build 3 level 3 markets just so one can build the 3 level 3 temples.
Just seems a little odd. There's not much point in having the market requirement as is. Perhaps it should be changed to 4 level 3 markets so that there is a point to building them other than just for the temple requirement...
This is what I have observed. Anyone else looked into it?...
And the money problems really are large problems. I'm at turn 218 and I have 1.15 Million in currency!!!
Build a fleet. :-DQuote:
1.15 Million in currency
Money is balanced for you having one.
Got a question. On 2.01 I got a getai reform by developing 3 settlements into cities with walls. It allowed me higher building options, large walls , etc. I didn`t get to explore it too much as a saurmation horde swept thru my lands and pretty much ended the game. The question is, do the getai still have this reform? Iv played them since , but not to that level of development.
That script hasn't been touched, so I'd assume it's the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribtickler
Hi Simplicity, (and dev team if you are still reading this thread)
Just so you know, in the v2.05, the Saka reform seems broken. First stage works fine, and when you have three cities, it triggers. But then it seems that the second reform tries to trigger also. The second reform building tries to pop in the bulding choices of some of the settlements, and if you click to construct them, some of them will go on and some other will stay in the building queue indefinately. If you destroy the builded one, you cannot build them anymore. And more : if you wait for 40 turns, nothings triggers, and if you wait for 40 years (yeah, I DID IT !!!) nothing triggers either, even though I have L3 farms.
Just out of curiosity, will the Boii or Arevaci be getting any reform events of their own? Or is there no history to support these events???
Boii share the same reform events as the Aedui and Arverni. Arevaci might get a new reform, depending on what our new Iberian historian designs.
Hey Floren!
Quintus was reading this a lot more than me for a while there. Hasn't manifested himself yet though. I'll write it down as possibly broken until we get more info. Thanks though :)
I thought so. Can the main post possibly be edited to say Aedui, Arverni and Boii then? To prevent future confusion? Theyre not listed with the other factions on the OP yetQuote:
Originally Posted by Sylon
In the future, Arevaci may get a reform that represents that Celtiberians became a Polis-type society with Senates, assemblies and magistrates but with their native features and their humble capacities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn
Thanks dude !Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpelicity
I will try to contact those people in private but I doubt it will work.