My Initial Thoughts on Warhammer I

I regard myself as a series veteran, having played since the original Rome Total War from 2005 (though I appreciate many players surpass even me from the original Shogun!). I recently bought Warhammer: Total War in a sale a few days ago, and these are my initial thoughts.

Simply put, I think Warhammer is the best game in a long time, certainly since Shogun II: Total War. It's been a long time since I had fun playing a Total War game, and whilst playing Warhammer I can just feel myself smiling and watching the hours drift by.

I am not a Warhammer expert by any means, but it seems to me Creative Assembly really enjoyed making this game. I find the characters to be well crafted and a joy to inspect both on the campaign map and the battle map. The character model variety is really something. Watching the men of The Empire do battle against hordes of Greenskins, whilst wizards summon spells and trolls and giants beat my men into submission is a marvellous sight. I can't really comment on the accuracy to the Warhammer lore, but to an amateur like me, the models and animations are pretty excellent.

Which kind of leads me into my next point. The battles are satisfying, brutal and violent. Cavalry charges are finally as brutal as they should be! Watching scores of plate armoured horsemen send goblins flying into the air never gets boring. Sometimes I watch my frontline soldiers charge into combat, and wince as steel meets steel. Siege weapons scatter men and beasts alike across the battlefield.
I remember the initial release of Warhammer was criticised for having too fast, arcade style battles. Maybe it's the mods I'm using, but I don't think this is the case. My infantry hold and fight long enough for me to position a cavalry charge, or for me to manoeuvre my ranged units to the sides. I feel my units have sufficient impact - cavalry makes short work of archers. Charges to the rear play havoc on morale. My Legendary Lord crashes into battle and keeps my other units fighting on.
Speaking of Legendary Lords, I feel these and other Heroes are a good example of what was needed to freshen up Total War battles. By the time of Rome II and Attila, crashing one wave of men into another was getting old. The LLs though come with a range of weird and wonderful abilities, and each is unique from the other. The ability to customise and develop them as they gain ranks keeps you interested in your characters. I've yet to dabble too much in quests and I'm not sure how they work exactly, but I'm enjoying following the quest path at least to see what happens.

The negatives. I've done a lot of praising, but there are also things I'm not so keen on. Once again, the AI seems to be pretty weak, though this is par for the course now. An enemy army had units that were completely invisible even while moving. If they managed to flank these units around me, they could have caused some damage. Instead, they walk straight into my front line of Hand Gunners. One volley reduces them to about 5 soldiers remaining. Diplomacy again is still a bit wonky. One minute my approval rating is "trustworthy" and everyone wants to be my friend. The next turn, I'm inexplicably unreliable, and every faction is cancelling their non-aggression pacts and trade agreements with me. Also, the campaign itself. I can't put my finger on it, but I feel it has somehow lost a layer of complexity. I want my economy management to be a bit more complicated than "build this building, increase wealth by 250 coins per turn." I wish trade resources did something. For example, salt is used as a preservative. The more units of salt I have, the better my food is preserved, increasing growth throughout my empire. Timber is used for construction - the more timber I have, the cheaper construction costs are for me. Everyone loves wine and beer - the more I have of these, the happier my citizens are. I feel even a simple added layer like this would benefit the game a lot.

My initial impressions of Warhammer are positive, and I'm enjoying reclaiming The Empire with Karl Franz. I'll probably end up playing a second campaign with a different faction, to test just how different each faction truly is.

Thanks for reading my brief initial thoughts. I'm very late to the Warhammer party, but I'm sufficiently intrigued that I may take a chance on Warhammer II when it gets its first sale.

I agree with most of this. Playing Warhammer is basically fun most of the time. I had fun the first campaign of Attila and AoC but not much replay for me in those though they weren't bad games. Rome II had just terrible launch but was mostly fixed and can be fun with mods but the variety in Warhammer compared to any of the historical titles makes me worried CA can't replicate this level in any historical titles.

Warhammer II is basically improving on Warhammer I in several ways and not really going backwards in any way I can think of which is a first for TW. Usually it is 2 steps forward, 1 step back so I'm hopeful for the full trilogy. Complexity is a fine concept but tends to break at scale. No TW has been complex in the same way some Paradox titles are complex while more options CA has added in recent games are actually slight steps forward they are just such small steps and get used to them so quickly if you play most TW games it seems not that big a deal but I've seen a handful of friends start playing TW for the first time with Warhammer and realized coming into the games new there are actually quite a few different concepts compared to many other games. I hesitate to say any concept by itself is complex but altogether they are.

Trade resources making a difference in various ways is something I hope for TW for a long time. Strategy map should have a bit more care than just start position x time = success for economy. Salt could not only affect growth but also campaign movement, especially at sea. For example 1 salt resource that provides 10 salt could increase growth 1% per # of salt about highest tier building average. So If starting with salt resource with 1 region that has only level 1 building it is +9% growth but have to keep leveling up salt as building level rise and eventually acquire more salt resources of growth starts slowing unless acquired via trade.

Of course the AI is the main reason there is not more complexity as it already ignores half or more of what affects players. This is probably the next area CA really needs to focus on to advance the series. AI will need cheats for some time but hopefully it can be improved to the point cheats don't need to be so blatant and mechanics in the game like agent actions might actually matter vs AI because as it stands other than conquest not much a player does really affects the AI. Shogun 2 was an example where CA allowed players to use agents a bit too well but stuff like that simply toned down with some limits could work well.

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Originally Posted by Ichon

I agree with most of this. Playing Warhammer is basically fun most of the time. I had fun the first campaign of Attila and AoC but not much replay for me in those though they weren't bad games. Rome II had just terrible launch but was mostly fixed and can be fun with mods but the variety in Warhammer compared to any of the historical titles makes me worried CA can't replicate this level in any historical titles.

Warhammer II is basically improving on Warhammer I in several ways and not really going backwards in any way I can think of which is a first for TW. Usually it is 2 steps forward, 1 step back so I'm hopeful for the full trilogy. Complexity is a fine concept but tends to break at scale. No TW has been complex in the same way some Paradox titles are complex while more options CA has added in recent games are actually slight steps forward they are just such small steps and get used to them so quickly if you play most TW games it seems not that big a deal but I've seen a handful of friends start playing TW for the first time with Warhammer and realized coming into the games new there are actually quite a few different concepts compared to many other games. I hesitate to say any concept by itself is complex but altogether they are.

Trade resources making a difference in various ways is something I hope for TW for a long time. Strategy map should have a bit more care than just start position x time = success for economy. Salt could not only affect growth but also campaign movement, especially at sea. For example 1 salt resource that provides 10 salt could increase growth 1% per # of salt about highest tier building average. So If starting with salt resource with 1 region that has only level 1 building it is +9% growth but have to keep leveling up salt as building level rise and eventually acquire more salt resources of growth starts slowing unless acquired via trade.

Of course the AI is the main reason there is not more complexity as it already ignores half or more of what affects players. This is probably the next area CA really needs to focus on to advance the series. AI will need cheats for some time but hopefully it can be improved to the point cheats don't need to be so blatant and mechanics in the game like agent actions might actually matter vs AI because as it stands other than conquest not much a player does really affects the AI. Shogun 2 was an example where CA allowed players to use agents a bit too well but stuff like that simply toned down with some limits could work well.

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Thanks for replying to my thread.

Of course, Paradox levels complexity would be very unfitting, and probably detrimental, to the Total War series. Recently though, at least in EU4, Paradox have adapted the 'throw as many features at them as possible' approach seemingly for the sake for it. I'd rather have a few mechanics that work well, than a whole host of mechanics poorly implemented that just frustrates the player.

I wonder if more important trade resources is something mods can do. I'll be sure to browse the workshop for Warhammer II when I get it.

Unfortunately, I doubt AI will ever receive a significant boost. For over a decade now Creative Assembly have seemed either unable or unwilling to improve the artificial intelligence, instead just allowing greater bonuses on harder difficulty. Again, though, maybe modders can do a better job of this than CA.

I can't say I'm old veteran of TW myself, spent a lot of time in Rome I, Medieval II, couldn't enjoy Empires or Napoleon Wars no matter how I tried. Shogun II was great fun, but it didn't hold me for long enough. Actually enjoyed Rome II after several patches and some big overhaul mods. Couldn't enjoy Attila as much for some reason. So as it seems, I skipped quite a few titles in franchise.
When TW:W was announced I I was super excited but at the same time, knowing Warhammer brand history in video games I didn't really hold my breath and suspected game might be total flop. But boy I was wrong... Not gonna say TW:W is perfect or anything, but it delivers SO GOOD, I barely find words to express it.

Thing is: I'm big Warhammer fan of both WFB and especially W40k. Since 2004 there was not even semi-decent W40k game and by looking how hard DOW III flopped... it is really hard to take for me, I had big hopes for this. And since 2006 there was no decent WFB game. Mark of Chaos wasn't particularly masterpiece, but it was okay. Now with TW:W, it's like blessing from heaven, game is fantastic in many different ways, most inconsistencies with lore are fixed with mods, and all in all it's amazing experience. Now there's TW:WII which managed to improve on first game, and I'm eagerly waiting TW:WIII in the future. Sure won't be disappointed.

And now I'd like to make a general disclaimer:
Some TW veterans and fans express frustration that CA diverted from historical titles in favor of fantasy. I'd say it's even pretty popular opinion out there. Players have been waiting Medieval 3 or new Empires, but got some unfamiliar title instead, and I can see how it can piss some people off, but you guys have no idea what kind of great occasion it is for us, Warhammer fans, to have modern and high quality adaptation of our favorite universe on top of being great game in itself. For once, please, let us enjoy it, and try to enjoy it yourselves. ;)

I can openly admit I was one of the people who bashed Creative Assembly when they announced a fantasy title. However, I can now state confidently that Warhammer is the exact thing the series needed to stop it grinding into repetitive, boring irrelevance. I'm very interested to see how a new historical title can match the fun of Warhammer.

All decent points OP but I still think it's more flash than substance. In terms of the actual combat.

However I do agree that there's lots of positives. In terms of the quests etc and items plus different campaign features. However personally I think the overall speed of the battles is too fast and the actual melee fighting is a bit blobby and charges are still a bit iffy.

Even the effect of the large creatures you could say needs some work...ok some of the effects eg the Dragons breath looks great but have noticed when a large creature slams into masses of troops it can be a bit underwhelming. Things go flying but there's no actual contact...

I believe this is the engines shortcoming and CA are using work arounds that dont destroy the framerate.

There's also two features which are a bit strange and possible wrong. First is you can easily exploit A.I and make money by forcing rebellions and in the process level up a general. Also armies can spawn randomly?

Magic effects are great though and the campaign map is well done.

However and this is possibly the biggest issue I have in not getting it until a sale is out. 4 factions isnt enough and how much DLC until the game is finished? Moreover one can argue the vanilla game isnt worth playing until everything is out and there's mods like steelfaith etc.

I do think it's a solid 7 as it stands. I think Warhammer1 the finished article was an 8.5! So decent games but for me there's still something missing.

I admit I am older than most and somewhat fussy.

p.s and at the moment am playing Fifa and Steel Division. (I'll finish off Warhammer at some point).

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Originally Posted by Totalheadache

However and this is possibly the biggest issue I have in not getting it until a sale is out. 4 factions isnt enough and how much DLC until the game is finished? Moreover one can argue the vanilla game isnt worth playing until everything is out and there's mods like steelfaith etc..

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This depends a little on point of view. Everybody is getting fifth faction (Bretonnia) for free and if you preordered WH1/WH2 even the Chaos/Norsca. Anyway everything is added into the base game, all DLC factions for AI to use it. So yeah, basically playing after all DLCs, the game feels more alive but that is true for all later TWs

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Originally Posted by Daruwind

This depends a little on point of view. Everybody is getting fifth faction (Bretonnia) for free and if you preordered WH1/WH2 even the Chaos/Norsca. Anyway everything is added into the base game, all DLC factions for AI to use it. So yeah, basically playing after all DLCs, the game feels more alive but that is true for all later TWs

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Already have and played Bretonnia so you could argue that's a bit meh.

But as you say it's all point of view. I love the series but have always thought it's not being led in the right direction. And for me that lies directly with the top of the chain. Dont get me wrong some of the new aspects in the series are great.

P.s I actually suggested some of these way back. And no am not asking for credit as others as well said some of the same things. My own one in particular was the quest side of things...giving the game a more RPG feel. I think they have done this well but it could be expanded further. Of course you/they could argue this was already planned but I rem seeing the news re Warhammer 1 having a beer and thinking great they have done something brilliant!

Perhaps a more diverse campaign? There always seems to be at the moment one main theme...perhaps there could be more. But then that could be done with introducing a new faction.

oh and the pirates are just empire units? That seems a bit lame no?

You are completely right. :-) I would love some special units recruitable only in specific regions like Pirates of Sartosa, Druids of Albion maybe? and so...But probably we have to draw a line somewhere....OH we are missing Haflings cooking team artillery :D

A little bit late to the Warhammer party, but all I can say is that this is the most fun TW game in ages. I've only been playing the first game so far, since my rig doesn't exactly have the firepower to handle TW:W2 yet, and I'll most likely be needing a new one by the time the third game is out. No doubt the Warhammer Complete/Combined Edition will be of epic proportions.