Welcome everyone to the House of Noble Discourse! The Curia has voted and ratified the establishment of our humble gathering. To business!
First of all, I'd like to invite anyone interested to signal their desire to join the House and follow the rules that were suggested. As per the initial proposal, the idea is for us to adhere to a self-policing higher code of conduct when it comes to debate. This may naturally mean keeping our cool in the face of terrible debating but I think doing so will only serve everyone well in the long run.
The Code
Quote:
Respect. Debate in good faith and be respectful to all members. Avoid using language that is deceptive, inflammatory or disruptive. Do not be rude, hostile, or overly sarcastic. Display your wit, but don't be a tit.
Logic. Argue rationally and as objectively as possible. Avoid using logical fallacies or overly-emotional language.
Substance. Contribute to the discussion and include worthwhile material to debate.
Evidence. Support your assertions of truth or fact with evidence. Link your sources - videos and images alone are foolish. Unless accompanied by other sources, refrain from using tabloids, blogs, social media comments and conspiracy-theory sites.
Once there are enough of us, we can figure out how to improve the general level of debate, as well as to encourage folk to join the House and adhere to the higher standard. Some initial ideas I had include creating signatures for members, 'Katsumoto of the House of Noble Discourse', or with some sort of quote, as well as House rewards for good debating.
I am also perfectly happy to alter the name of our society/group as well as the code of conduct if there is consensus, I'm not precious about either.
Otherwise, feel free to use this thread to discuss matters relating to the House, topics of debate or just to shoot the breeze. As I understand it, anyone is also welcome to open a thread in the Symposium just as if it were the D&D if they wish to debate a topic.
Thanks all!
Members:
Seether
Aexodus
Sukiyama
Elfdude
Alwyn
Pikestance
Katsumoto
Iskar
Abdülmecid I
December 15, 2018, 02:57 AM
Alwyn
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
Thanks! I like your idea and it's good to see the House of Noble Discourse being established. :smile:
The Code looks like a helpful endorsement of reason, evidence and fairness in debate. Like others, I'd enjoy debates without bad-faith tactics such such as dismissing evidence when it's inconvenient, trying to shift the goal-posts and attacking the opponent instead of their argument.
My only small reservation is about the complete exclusion of the use of blogs without extra evidence. It's true that anyone can write anything in a blog, regardless of whether it's accurate or a total fabrication. However, suppose we were discussing ancient history - would it be a problem if I linked to one of these ancient history blogs without providing an extra source saying the same thing? As I see it, anyone who doubted the evidence provided by such a blog would be free to question it (for example, by pointing out whether it was written by anyone with expertise in the subject, such as a teacher of ancient history).
December 15, 2018, 03:12 AM
Katsumoto
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
That's a fair point, yeah. Blogs can be of a higher quality than even some established sites. Unless there are some reasonable objections from others we can remove that requirement. Cheers Alwyn!
I forgot to mention, the House was obviously proposed and voted on in the Curia as a thing by Citizens, since I do think Citizens should hold themselves to a higher standard. But I think we could allow non-citizens to join as well, since more people debating better is obviously good, but as our base is in the Symposium they wouldn't officially have a say in the way it's run. I figure ideally this could maybe serve as a bit of an incentive for people to become Citizens.
December 15, 2018, 03:45 AM
Alwyn
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
Thanks! I'll be interested to see the views of others on my question about allowing blogs. Yes, I see how this could be an incentive to join.
December 15, 2018, 07:57 AM
PikeStance
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwyn
Thanks! I like your idea and it's good to see the House of Noble Discourse being established. :smile:
The Code looks like a helpful endorsement of reason, evidence and fairness in debate. Like others, I'd enjoy debates without bad-faith tactics such such as dismissing evidence when it's inconvenient, trying to shift the goal-posts and attacking the opponent instead of their argument.
My only small reservation is about the complete exclusion of the use of blogs without extra evidence. It's true that anyone can write anything in a blog, regardless of whether it's accurate or a total fabrication. However, suppose we were discussing ancient history - would it be a problem if I linked to one of these ancient history blogs without providing an extra source saying the same thing? As I see it, anyone who doubted the evidence provided by such a blog would be free to question it (for example, by pointing out whether it was written by anyone with expertise in the subject, such as a teacher of ancient history).
There is nothing inherently wrong with using a blog. Like anything else, one must conduct a simple source analysis. In the context of a history, as I tell my students, history is not a truth, but facts and interpretation of facts. ost of what people read is an interpretation of facts. Knowing who they are and their motivation is essential for the basis of any discussion of the value and limitation any source that is used regardless if it is a blog or a publication. Alternatively, a blog generally is not scrutinized by peer review like a publication is.
I think the name is fine unless you want to remove "discourse" but then you will be removing a descriptive element.
December 15, 2018, 08:04 AM
Iskar
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsumoto
Welcome everyone to the House of Noble Discourse! The Curia has voted and ratified the establishment of our humble gathering. To business!
First of all, I'd like to invite anyone interested to signal their desire to join the House and follow the rules that were suggested. As per the initial proposal, the idea is for us to adhere to a self-policing higher code of conduct when it comes to debate. This may naturally mean keeping our cool in the face of terrible debating but I think doing so will only serve everyone well in the long run.
The Code
Once there are enough of us, we can figure out how to improve the general level of debate, as well as to encourage folk to join the House and adhere to the higher standard. Some initial ideas I had include creating signatures for members, 'Katsumoto of the House of Noble Discourse', or with some sort of quote, as well as House rewards for good debating.
I am also perfectly happy to alter the name of our society/group as well as the code of conduct if there is consensus, I'm not precious about either.
Otherwise, feel free to use this thread to discuss matters relating to the House, topics of debate or just to shoot the breeze. As I understand it, anyone is also welcome to open a thread in the Symposium just as if it were the D&D if they wish to debate a topic.
Thanks all!
Instead of the signature thing we could all add "HND" behind our nicknames, as is the custom with some knights' orders in the UK (KG, CBE, etc.) So that would be "Iskar HND" for me.
December 15, 2018, 08:40 AM
Katsumoto
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
I like that - we're knights-errant on a quest for better debate! Though I know people can be a bit particular about their username (I know I am) - asking them to stick HND on the end might be annoying, but certainly could have it as a voluntary thing.
December 15, 2018, 09:52 AM
PikeStance
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
In the past, groups as of this would put something in their signature with a link to a thread like this. (e.g. S.I.N.)
I think having something in the signature that brings any curious seekers to the OP with the codes etc... would be a better way of spreading the word, apart from the higher discourse of course.
The Art guys can probably make a bar for you.
December 15, 2018, 04:36 PM
Iskar
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
So, who's in on this? Can we get a rough list of commitments? We can also set up a group for this.
December 15, 2018, 06:33 PM
Love Mountain
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
I'd limit the membership to only the most elite group first. I can think of a few names who would be a good "Vanguard" for this project, and maybe we could send messages to those people. I think the selection process right now is really important as less qualified members might discredit this project before it gets a good start.
Just off the very, very top of my head I'd say,
Abdul, Iskar, epic-fa1l, Prince of Essling, Dante, and Paleo.
Edit; Conon as well. I'll add more as I think of them.
December 15, 2018, 11:30 PM
PikeStance
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukiyama
I'd limit the membership to only the most elite group first. I can think of a few names who would be a good "Vanguard" for this project, and maybe we could send messages to those people. I think the selection process right now is really important as less qualified members might discredit this project before it gets a good start.
Just off the very, very top of my head I'd say,
Abdul, Iskar, epic-fa1l, Prince of Essling, Dante, and Paleo.
Edit; Conon as well. I'll add more as I think of them.
I think I prefer Kat's proposal better
I didn't support this idea so that it can become a clique. People volunteer to be apart of a higher standard would logically follow those higher standards. The group will ensure that a consistent understanding is communicated.
December 16, 2018, 03:52 AM
Katsumoto
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
Yeah I think it would defeat the purpose if it was exclusive somehow, obviously if people don't follow the Code they can be removed.
December 16, 2018, 07:29 AM
Iskar
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
So how are we gonna proceed? Send out invitations to those we think might be interested in this and/or post an announcement in the D&D?
December 18, 2018, 07:10 AM
Katsumoto
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
Yeah both of those ideas are good. Do you want to write up the announcement? Feel free to suggest names of who to invite as well.
December 18, 2018, 07:54 AM
Flinn
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
let me know if you want a front page/forum wide announcement for this (PM me please, I might be missing the replies here, sorry!) ;)
December 18, 2018, 08:48 AM
Caillagh de Bodemloze
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
Um. Don't ask Flinn if you want a Front Page Announcement. Ask me. :D
Do ask Flinn if you want a forum-wide announcement, though - I can't do those. :thumbsup2
December 18, 2018, 10:04 AM
Flinn
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
hey, I need to justify my salary in a way or another!! :surprise:
jokes aside, you can ask directly to Hitai for front page/news ;)
December 18, 2018, 10:25 AM
Hitai de Bodemloze
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flinn
jokes aside, you can ask directly to Hitai for front page/news ;)
Well if you truly can't bear to talk to Cai directly then I can pass the message along I suppose :whistling He's a nice bloke though; he doesn't bite or anything, I promise.
December 18, 2018, 01:26 PM
Katsumoto
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
A little sig bar if people want to use it, perhaps to link back here:
I'm happy to provide a smaller/bigger version, customised with names or quotes. Can do something else altogether if you like. Anything to spread the word!
December 18, 2018, 08:14 PM
PikeStance
Re: The House of Noble Discourse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flinn
let me know if you want a front page/forum wide announcement for this (PM me please, I might be missing the replies here, sorry!) ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caillagh de Bodemloze
Um. Don't ask Flinn if you want a Front Page Announcement. Ask me. :D
Do ask Flinn if you want a forum-wide announcement, though - I can't do those. :thumbsup2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flinn
hey, I need to justify my salary in a way or another!! :surprise:
jokes aside, you can ask directly to Hitai for front page/news ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitai de Bodemloze
Well if you truly can't bear to talk to Cai directly then I can pass the message along I suppose :whistling He's a nice bloke though; he doesn't bite or anything, I promise.
OMG, Stop, my head is spinning! :tongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsumoto
A little sig bar if people want to use it, perhaps to link back here:
I'm happy to provide a smaller/bigger version, customised with names or quotes. Can do something else altogether if you like. Anything to spread the word!
You might want to go sig bar size for some. I will stick to text because I found a fifth image to be too cluttered.